business claim 1992 and onwards

[sharpgun]

hi pm have finished filling out spreadsheet you gave me but cant gat the interest part to work. the last column just wont cllick on any ideas

[photoman]

Sharpgun,

I'm online now, if you want to explain what you mean further?

[sharpgun]

the last box in the interest column onthe right just wont work

[photoman]

Sharpgun,

Meet me in the chatroom (click on the button that says CAG chatroom near the top of the page just under the box that tells you if you have messages)

[scott150663]

the last box in the interest column onthe right just wont work

 

If this question has been answered can u post the answer cause nothing happens on mine either..............

 

Would the answer be A. Not overdrawn so cant claim ?

B. Im a numpty?????

 

If its A.. i have charges and am charged 29.5% when i fill in the account balance it is always a plus figure as i had no overdraft and the charge has occured as i didn't have cleared Funds,some months the interest is£150 but the statement very rarely shows that im overdrawn

 

any advice would be appreciated

 

Scott

[scott150663]

p.s Im talking about CI

[sharpgun]

the mistake i made was i didnt put the minus sign in front of the figure in acc balance box:p :twisted:

[scott150663]

the mistake i made was i didnt put the minus sign in front of the figure in acc balance box:p :twisted:

 

lol

 

my account nearly always shows a + balance !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

perhaps i'll just ignore the interest ive been charged as its only £4-500

but if anyone knows different let me know as with it being CI its worth while claiming if i can

 

scott

[sharpgun]

surely if its a + balance the can hardley be any differance but i would ask photoman he knows much more than me he put me right

[scott150663]

surely if its a + balance the can hardley be any differance but i would ask photoman he knows much more than me he put me right

 

thanks sharpie ill follow your advice

 

scott

[photoman]

Scott

The issue of what account balance to put into your spreadsheet is not a simple one, and has brought about much debate on this site.

The most knowledgeable members on this matter seem to be Mindzai, Lucid and Bill-k.

I have to dash off, so look up the thread by Mindzai and Lucid and there are some very good answers on there. Very useful reading anyhow, especially as it is their spreadsheet you are using.

I will try to post later regards my own understanding of the conclusions.

[sharpgun]

the tom brennan case is one we all have to watch because who knows what happens when he goes to court as he insists he is.

maybe for the good maybe for the bad unless he gives in to a massive offer.oh and he says he is setting up a group to take on the banks i wondered if some motive would come to light

[sharpgun]

been away but cannot find any templates /threads that have the req cluases regarding ci and pre six years in a bussines format

[Parkvale]

Try this one.http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/3598-do-you-have-charges-34.html

[scott150663]

been away but cannot find any templates /threads that have the req cluases regarding ci and pre six years in a bussines format

 

 

HEllo sharpie

 

here iit is mate

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/49074-can-we-have-new-2.html

 

 

Scott

[sharpgun]

right finally got prelim together. but two questions

1/do i give the alternative interest?

 

2/the claim is with three different acc numbers do i put them together or send them seperate bearing in mind with ci interest it will be huge

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

Which relates to the below

However, s.32 (1) (b) of the Act says:-

Quote:

32.--

• (1) .... where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either-

o (a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

o (b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or

o © the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.

 

Accordingly I claim:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £**;

 

b) Court costs;

 

 

c) interest at the contractual rate of **% AER, from the date of each transaction to **/**/**, which is £**, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £**, at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £**.

 

The Claimant believes this rate to be justified under the implied principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendants interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from the date of each transaction to **/**/**, which is £** and also interest at the same rate until date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £**.

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

 

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

 

any ideas please?

[sharpgun]

changed it a bit

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

I have just discovered that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business accounts from 1992 to 1995 in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

Which relates to the below

However, s.32 (1) (b) of the Act says:-

Quote:

32.--

• (1) .... where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either-

o (a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

o (b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or

o © the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.

Accordingly I claim:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £**;

 

b) Court costs;

 

 

c) interest at the contractual rate of **% AER, from the date of each transaction to **/**/**, which is £**, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £**, at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £**.

 

The Claimant believes this rate to be justified under the implied principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendants interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from the date of each transaction to **/**/**, which is £** and also interest at the same rate until date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £**.

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

 

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[photoman]

changed it a bit

 

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION This is your prelim NOT your Letter Before Action !

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

I have just discovered that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business accounts from 1992 to 1995 in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. Have you actually looked up the meaning of Fiduciary anywhere?

Even though this was included in the original site templates, there is now some debate as to whether they actually are fiduciaries? Personally I chose to omit this reference, as it is controversial, and unnecessary in any case.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

[ Which relates to the below

However, s.32 (1) (b) of the Act says:-

Quote:

32.--

• (1) .... where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either-

o (a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

o (b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or

o © the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.]

Sharpie, everything bwithin the [ and ] is not presented well, makes little sense and in any case is unnecessary at this point, save your arguments regards Limitations act etc until your POC.

 

Accordingly I claim:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £**;

 

b) Court costs; No need to mention this, court costs come as standard.

 

 

c) interest at the contractual rate of **% AER, from the date of each transaction to **/**/**, which is £**, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £**, at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £**.

 

The Claimant believes this rate to be justified under the implied principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendants interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

[Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from the date of each transaction to **/**/**, which is £** and also interest at the same rate until date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £**. ]

Sharpie, do not offer them alternatives at this point. They will only try to offer you the lower rate. It is upto a court to decide which rate is most applicable. Save any alternatives until your POC's, and clarify that the alternatives are at the COURTS discretion.

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

This is NOT a Particulars of Claim, it is a prelim. Omit this.

 

 

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

This is a Prelim. in order to be seen as having been reasonable you will still have to issue a Letter Before Action, giving them 14 days, before submitting a court claim.

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Sharpie,

Do not try to modify the sites templates too much !!!!

They are tried and tested, and you have obviously made some very fundamental mistakes by modifying them.

I don't wish to belittle you here, but I really do think you still need to spend a bit more time reading up and giving this matter the attention and research it deserves before jumping in too quickly. This is a large and controversial claim, and they will pick holes in anything they can.

Even the most experienced members on this site would tread very carefully with such a claim.

Here is an example Prelim to consider and maybe try.

 

Date; x/xx/xx

 

Thier Address

xxxxx

xxxxxx

xxxxx

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxx SORT CODE: xx-xx-xx

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business account in relation to returned item fees, direct debit refusals, unauthorised overdraft charges and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute.

If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have actually been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in the integrity and expertise of [YOUR BANK].

 

As per my attached schedule of charges:

I calculate that between xx/xx/xx & xx/xx/xx you have taken £xxxx.xx along with £xxxx.xx which you have charged me in additional overdraft interest for these sums you have taken. These two figures give a total of £ xxxx.xx

 

Furthermore, as there is an explicit or implied term of mutuality and reciprocity within the terms of our contract, then I am adding interest to what the Bank have taken. This is justified in respect of the fact that the Bank unlawfully took my money, and that is the equivalent of Unauthorised Borrowing. Therefore the total sum will be subject to a contractual rate of interest at your own Unauthorised Borrowing rate of x.xx% per month compounded monthly giving an A.P.R. of xx.xx% which will be applied to the penalties and the interest on the penalties you have charged me. This amounts to £xxxx.xx

 

Therefore the Total sum I now expect from [YOUR BANK] in respect of this matter is: £xxxx.xxx

 

[This sum will also be subject to daily interest at x.xx% (which amounts to £xx.xx per day), from the date of this letter until the claim is settled].

 

Yours sincerely

 

Sharpie

[kippy2]

hi photoman thats the one i used. however trying to find LBA template for pre 6 years and with CI. which one will you use/or have used?

 

sorry for hyjack

[sharpgun]

thanks pm your topman,

your letter is fantastic:D im gonna fire it off and have a good read in between

[caro]

I haven't read all of your thread, but wonder if you have evidence of fraud. If not I strongly urge you against claiming contractual interest.

[sharpgun]

i have spoken to several mods and nobody has told me that. but i have also been told that when i get to poc i can have the alternative interest rate put in, giving the judge the option of taking the lower interest rate. but i also didnt discover the charges untill a couple of months ago as i used to have bookeeper do my books so i didnt know about the charges

[livelylad]

i have spoken to several mods and nobody has told me that. but i have also been told that when i get to poc i can have the alternative interest rate put in, giving the judge the option of taking the lower interest rate. but i also didnt discover the charges untill a couple of months ago as i used to have bookeeper do my books so i didnt know about the charges

 

 

The problem with that option lies with: If you are sure that claiming the contractual rate is justified why would you ask for the other rate in case he disagrees?

[sharpgun]

i have in the centre of my statements black writing stating that if i go over my agreed overdraft they will charge 29.5% if they can do it why cant i (goose & gander) comes to mind

[caro]

You seem to be alleging fraud in your letter, which I think you should be cautious of unless you have evidence to back it up. Thanks to ZootScoot who PM'd this information to me a while back.

 

However, if they went for the tort of deceit there is a basis in law for contractual interest. Which applies where money has been obtained and retained by fraud.

 

In your own interests I suggest that you research very thoroughly about CI before going ahead. There is nothing to say that a court may not consider your case vexatious and strike it out, awarding costs to the bank, which could run into thousands.

 

I know a number of people still believe in claiming CI, but as far as I know, most, if not all mods would not suggest claiming CI unless the claim fell within the small claim track, including interest. Clearly your case would not fall into this category.