Newman & Non Compliance of CITI debt CCA request

[renegotiation]

Well you 'for the most part' mean DCA's not original creditors I take it? Also, it is 'for the most part' in my opinion people who 'can't' pay their debts, not people trying to 'evade' their debts requesting CCA's. These people still have the option of 'continuing' to pay their debts if they so wish. It just takes away the possibility of legal pressure from them if a CCA can't be produced. This can be a massive weight of someone's mind! Can't you fathom that? It doesn't really matter when a CCA turns up you are right, but if someone has had a particularly bad experience with a DCA they have the option of sticking one up them. As for TS siding with creditors (DCA's) I doubt it. More like underfunded I guess, but i'm no expert. The DCA's use the law to the fullest extent and every underhand trick there is 'in my opinion'. Why shouldn't people who are broke and stressed to the hilt?

 

Ha ha Drex, just saw that!

[Rameses]

Look at it from the TS's side. Come into work on a Monday, 6 letters about rogue builders ripping off old ladies, 3 or 4 about a dodgy restaurant giving locals serious food poisoning, a few about poor quality building work causing major problems, dozen about banks charging high interest and late fees , few more about car salesmen selling cars that break down and refuse to put right, some about fly tippers, few more about rubbish being left outside of a shop and the rats are swarming. Interesting important stuff. Then 50 letters moaning that the creditor is two weeks late sending a copy agreement.

 

See the point? TS's might dislike creditors, but they are not stupid. they know the complaints are simply debtors trying to get creditors into trouble. Is the debtor REALLY that interested in the copy contract arriving within a month? If they were THAT interested in the contents why didn't they ask for a copy years ago? Or keep the original agreement in a safe place?

 

Sadly the pointless complaints are simply preventing those with a genuine and serious grievance to come to the top of the pile and/or be taken seriously. Boy who cried wolf anyone?

[renegotiation]

Yeah, i'm a boy who cries wolf! And I see a big nasty pack of them that need some serious culling! BRING IT ON... If anyone DCA doesn't like my stance 'Well sue me assh***s'. However, I must advise you that I will request all sorts of weird and wonderful things from you first to stop you suing me.

 

The DCA's need to learn to reply to correspondence Rameses. They give one flaky response at best usually and then just leave it at that. They should confirm before the deadline that they haven't got it and are returning the case to the OC. Then there wouldn't be a case for reporting them to TS would there? Maybe it's the DCA's stopping serious things getting dealt with by TS, not the debtors...

[zander]

The problem for trading standards is they are inundated with debtors battering them with complaints about creditors not supplying copy contracts on time. They are, I understand fed up with it. They are not stupid, they know that most persons complaining are debtors who are simply trying to evade their debts or trying get creditors into trouble. The TS's really do not care if the agreement is sent on time or a few months late. Does it really matter?

 

Rather ironic that the number of complaints they are now receiving has actually had the opposite effect to that intended. It has simply resulted in the TS's siding with creditors!

 

The fact is that the creditor has committed a criminal offence, pure & simple. Therefore they should be brought to account and no excuses or discrimination should be made to/against the debtor. Whatever the debtors reason for requesting the agreement, TS or any other regulatory body has a duty to act when there is a total disregard of the laws.

[SteveH2508]

There is no requirement in the Act to use special or recorded delivery. While lack of receipt will work in a civil case (burden of proof "on the balance of probabilities" with the claimant having the main burden of proof), in a criminal case it won't wash. You would need to prove that the credit agreement was never sent beyond reasonable doubt. The burden of proof would rest with the prosecutor (i.e. the state) not the DCA.

 

As for Credit Licenses being revoked... I agree with you. I want to see it happen more, and be meaningful when it does happen (i.e. the same people not starting up a new business doing exactly the same thing the next day).

 

As an ex-TSO my approach would be:

1. Obtain statement from complainant stating no agreement received.

2. Interview creditor.

Q. Did you send a copy of agreement?

A. Yes.

Q. Show me a copy of what you sent.

A. Um, well, Um.....

(Job done - to quote John Cleese in Life of Brian "You're f**king nicked me old beauty!")

(TSOs have powers requiring production of documents etc..)

 

As far as Licencing is concerned - the OFT get quarterly returns of all complaints made to TS, categorised by statute and type. If they start getting hundreds of CCA complaints against particular traders then they will eventually need to start to act. (It won't be quick though!) The complaints need to be registered with TS even if no action is taken.

[Rameses]

"The DCA's need to learn to reply to correspondence".

 

So do the debtors.....

 

As for, "the fact is that the creditor has committed a criminal offence, pure & simple. Therefore they should be brought to account and no excuses or discrimination should be made"

 

Do you approve of speed cameras? Ever read about those who do 72 on a motorway when it is empty? Unfair to get done? I trust you do not EVER defend ANYONE speeding illegally for ANY reason. "The fact is that the driver has committed a criminal offence, pure & simple. Therefore they should be brought to account and no excuses or discrimination should be made".

[renegotiation]

Are you sure you're not undercover DCA? :confused: :confused:

[rory32]

Rameses does do work for DCA's as I'm sure most of you have figured out. He has an agenda of his own.

[make them aktiv runners]

"The DCA's need to learn to reply to correspondence".

 

So do the debtors......

 

 

They will get a reply ONLY when the court sends their claim through, after all they promised to take me to court many many letters ago AND I AM STILL WAITING FOR THEM TO CARRY OUT THEIR THREATS. The reply of course will be a DEFENCE FULLY ACCEPTABLE BY UK LAW.

[Flyguy77]

Ramses of course works for DCA his comments reflect the general thinking of their low life criminal activities. He is of course in a democracy entitled to voice his opinion. An opinion that happily fails to realise that most people in debt are there due to personal tragedies, or circumstances beyond their control.

 

If this forum and Consumer Credit law is giving the DCA's a hard time - good. Perhaps when these companies employ normal sentient human beings things might change for the better.

 

Remember most employees of DCA's are not intelligent, work to a script from their evil masters, oh and of course are paid to harass and intimidate. So thats a very moral position then..........

[dom2]

Just reading the overnight postings.

I'm sorry guys but my reading of Rameses' last postings is that he's making sense.

This is the second time I've given a postive comment to his postings and please believe me I'm not an apologist for the DCA thug mentality.

But really .... we're all p***ed off with the DCA/banking system and he's simpy an easy target.

I think it would be better to analyse his comments and use whatever balance/understanding we can get to further our own claims without snide insults.

I know we all feel very aggrieved (me most of all!) but different opinions can be useful sometimes. Sorry to sound so moralistic.

[tomterm8]

"I trust you do not EVER defend ANYONE speeding illegally for ANY reason. "The fact is that the driver has committed a criminal offence, pure & simple. Therefore they should be brought to account and no excuses or discrimination should be made".

 

That is a fair statement of my opinion on the matter. Speeding drivers can kill people, even if the road seems empty, and I fully believe that they should be brought to account.

[Flyguy77]

He is simply a target due to his desire to express his views in open forum. Good luck to him, as said we live in a democracy and he is entitled to. My problem with his postings is that he adopts an inflexible and dubious 'moralistic' position.

 

In my opinion those mainly using this forum are individuals who are desperate, depressed, worried, frightened and in despair at debt. A 'moralistic' position seeking to label them as deceivers, criminals or worse is despicable and those are the tactics employed by his masters.

 

DCA's will gain my respect when they act in a responsible, sympathetic manner. Dealing with debt is about resolution - solving a problem to the satisfaction of both debtor and creditor - this is not achieved by lies, bullying or harrasment.

 

If I want to I can be highly moralistic - never owed a penny to anybody all my life - but then also never suffered any personal tragedy like illness, break up or job loss - i am lucky - maybe my luck could change - IMHO nobody wants to get into debt! When they do they want to resolve the matter but often feel helpless against the large financial institutions, and then the matter goes from bad to worse - and who is waiting at the end of the line...... DCA's wheeling like vultures to make a quick buck.

 

The system is wrong and if fighting the tactics of DCA's and reporting them and making the authorities take action improves things for those who are suffering - then bring it on!

 

There was that moralistic enough - I hope so .

[dom2]

Agreed Flyguy77,

Let's hope he can express himself with a little more flexibility and less of a judgemental attitude.

Othewise I might have to use that little button to block his posts:)

[zander]

"The DCA's need to learn to reply to correspondence".

 

So do the debtors.....

 

As for, "the fact is that the creditor has committed a criminal offence, pure & simple. Therefore they should be brought to account and no excuses or discrimination should be made"

 

Do you approve of speed cameras? Ever read about those who do 72 on a motorway when it is empty? Unfair to get done? I trust you do not EVER defend ANYONE speeding illegally for ANY reason. "The fact is that the driver has committed a criminal offence, pure & simple. Therefore they should be brought to account and no excuses or discrimination should be made".

 

I don't approve of speed cameras as they don't work. However, these are not my laws and I don't know anyone who has made a law. Do you? A tiny minority make these laws for the mass of people to obey and they (like dca's) use force and threats if you disobey them. Moreover, I respect the law like I respect fire, but I don't revere the law and since legislators ran out of sensible laws to make they are concentrating their efforts on obscure and insidious laws which don't follow the basic principle behind good law which is or should be: COMMIT A REAL CRIME WITH A REAL VICTIM AND YOU WILL BE PUNISHED. That's what this particular dca has done and should accept the consequences.

[renegotiation]

"the fact is that the creditor has committed a criminal offence, pure & simple. Therefore they should be brought to account and no excuses or discrimination should be made"

 

Well one person made that comment. I don't quite agree with it myself. However, in the context of DCA's I think they need all the punishment they can get. He then comes up with a feeble speeding analogy... Well, that's just can't be conflated with a 14 working day plus 1 calendar month deadline, 'regardless' of what one might think the punishment should be for breaking that deadline. I think the DCA's are asking for trouble by not addressing the issue. They can either comply or they can't. The answer is many of them just 'ignore' it. And if he calls the stupid computer junk they send out as 'correspondence' he is warped. The DCA's have the power to respond to CCA requests in one way or the other. All their letters just demand money and threaten. Obviously many people don't have the power to 'respond' by paying money. Moreover, my dad (many other too i'm sure) has sent many letters off to them over the years. That's correspondence right? God knows how many they say they haven't received. Who can afford to send every single dam letter recorded delivery when being in a DCA position in the first place? I reckon they just bin them. 'Is it money? Nope. In the bin then!' They then phone up the next day and ask him to send a letter explaining his circumstances. Yes, very funny. What is a DCA in reality nowadays anyway? Not much more than a few nasty people getting rich with hordes of phone vultures working for them.

 

Now I knew Rameses said he was a process server and in a sense worked for DCA's, but I am dubious if that is the whole story if indeed that is true. Of course I don't 'know'. I have checked his posts and 29 of 30 have been in the DCA section. What led him to this site in the first place? Does he just see himself as a moralist? Why doesn't he moralise and make the odd post in any of the other sections on this site? Why not the parking and traffic warden section? He is always in the DCA subsection. Not even 1 moralising post in the General Debt subsection. It just seems odd to me. And the 1 post he makes in another section of the site is what?

 

It is this:

 

Re: Lloyds Bank Won In Court What Does This Mean

Basically, they are not illegal charges, stop asking for them back. In a nutshell, they must now be paid.

Likely the Nat West hearing will reach a similar decision.

 

 

 

 

 

Straight after Lloyds won he said that! Now that just stinks to me, as in my opinion even any hard moralist knows that those charges are highly disgusting and immoral. I really am confused. I 'invite' him to explicitly explain what led him to the site, why he is always in the DCA subsection and his general position and motives. I would actually like to meet the guy. Are you going to the picnic Rameses? We can at least have a laugh about it all there.

[Flyguy77]

Well one doesn't know what makes him take his stance - but I doubt he will change it and its not really worth making the effort. Actually I dont think picnics are likely to be his thing unless he can steal all the pies:D

[renegotiation]

He aint having my pies! :mad: Their all gonna be paid for and I will bring the receipts. I do honestly hope he does come though.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Unfortunately Rameses has yet again managed to drag a thread off topic.

 

As far as TS are concerned I wonder if there's also an element of debtors being (wrongly) percieved as less worthy of time and resources as some of their other customers?

[dannyboy660]

There's no point responding to DCA's correspondence, there's only a very small chance a letter received by ordinary post will ever be read. They are only opened to look for Cheques/PO's/Cash.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/85349-view-inside-whitleblower-thread.html

 

Even 'signed for' mail is sometimes 'lost', or just ignored basically. That's a fact. Take it from someone who knows.

[rory32]

As far as TS are concerned I wonder if there's also an element of debtors being (wrongly) percieved as less worthy of time and resources as some of their other customers?

An interesting point. Perhaps this is part of the reason for the differences in individual TS offices dealing with complaints, with some being very helpful and some verging on being useless.

[Curlyben]

I think that its also down to the WAY people make a complaint.

 

Who are you more likely to help?

1/ The preson that rants and raves and DEMANDS action

or

2/ The one that is reasonable, supplies copious information and treats TS like real people doing a difficult job ??

 

From my customer service experience I know which one I'm more likely to give my time to help.

[dannyboy660]

In that case, I recommend the North Lanarkshire TS/OFT office in Motherwell.

 

I had a problem with Lowell/Hampton and went along there with some ID, my credit files etc...... they couldn't wait to put the boot into Lowell when they saw what was going on. All I had to do was sign a third party mandate and let them do the rest. They were very helpful and very informative, and it's a shame the same kind of service doesn't appear to be available everywhere.

 

Perhaps it does depend on attitude to debt and 'social factors' in different areas??

[zander]

I think that its also down to the WAY people make a complaint.

 

Who are you more likely to help?

1/ The preson that rants and raves and DEMANDS action

or

2/ The one that is reasonable, supplies copious information and treats TS like real people doing a difficult job ??

 

From my customer service experience I know which one I'm more likely to give my time to help.

 

Correct Curlyben. My correspondence with TS was, as you pointed out, the latter.

Could it be that TS are acting like MP's in that unless it will forward their profile and make them look good they won't further the grievance?

[Flyguy77]

I think there may be an issue of how debt is perceived by some TS offices, although I have found Brighton to be helpful they are constrained by staffing issues and budgetary resources.

 

Really it is the responsibility of the OFT to take on the DCA's - keep supplying them with evidence of malpractice by DCA's, it may take time but the DCA's are on borrowed time now and the more complaints they receive with documentary evidence the better.