Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

[car2403]

The debts that I am about to use this process on are already in default so there is no prospect of that aspect being a viable form of enforcement from the creditors side.

 

When I think of enforcement I generally take that to mean being forced to pay some or all of the debt.

 

I think in most cases this argument would be more theoretical than actual because I would imagine that it's not often that the agreement turns up later.

 

Could be wrong of course. If it is just that they can't be bothered to meet the deadline and then eventually get their ar*e in gear then maybe agreements are turning up late on a regular basis.

 

I still doubt it though. My reckoning is no agreement within 6 weeks almost certainly means there isn't one at all.

 

Agreed - if they can't provide an agreement within the prescribed period, they are unlikely to provide one at all at some time in the future.

[Nickolarge]

Agreed - if they can't provide an agreement within the prescribed period, they are unlikely to provide one at all at some time in the future.

 

I spent over 4 hours trawling this and other sites last night and I found a few threads where the poster had some debts written off because they sent a CCA letter and some where the DCA tried to get away with sending dodgy paperwork but I did not find any where the agreement turned

up months later.

[Goldlady]

Mine have either arrived within 10 days or not at all:D

[paulwlton]

I spent over 4 hours trawling this and other sites last night and I found a few threads where the poster had some debts written off because they sent a CCA letter and some where the DCA tried to get away with sending dodgy paperwork but I did not find any where the agreement turned

up months later.

 

Both Barclaycard and Capital one provided agreements several months after the request.

 

Paul

[hsbcfiddled]

Nickolarge- Just a word of warning.

I sent cca request 8th June - got a reply about 16th July it was a copy of an agreement with alterations on it.

I contested the copy immediately- On or about 16th August I received a second version without alterations. However it still wasnt properly executed.

But my word of warning is-The current Bank Manager- who wasnt at the branch at the time of the loan-Told me "I dont know why they asked head office for the agreement, because it was here all the time"!

 

hsbcfiddled

[paulwlton]

An unenforceable Capital one agreement/Application. Question: is part of the signature permitted to be outside the sig box.?

[car2403]

An unenforceable Capital one agreement/Application. Question: is part of the signature permitted to be outside the sig box.?

 

6.3 Where must they sign the agreement?

Reg 6(3)(a) provides that each debtor (or a person acting on his behalf in the case of a partnership or unincorporated body) must sign the document in the space indicated for the purpose. This must be within a signature box as specified in Sch 5 – see Q6.5.

 

Reg 6(3)(b) provides that the creditor (or a person acting on his behalf) must sign the document outside any signature box used by the debtor. The creditor may sign within a box, but this must be separate from the box containing the debtor’s signature.

 

 

Reg 6(3)(d) provides that a witness may sign the document provided that this is outside the box containing the debtor’s signature.

6.5 Do the signatures have to appear in a box?

 

Each debtor must sign within a signature box as specified in Sch 5 – see Q6.6. The creditor, and any witness, must sign outside the box containing the debtor’s signature. See also Q6.3.

 

This one seems to have part of the creditors signature in the debtors signature box? :o

 

At best, improperly executed = enforceable with a Court order, as a result of the signature issue.

 

Of course, there's no prescribed/required terms, so unenforceable because of s.127(3) anyway, IMHO.

[Nickolarge]

Both Barclaycard and Capital one provided agreements several months after the request.

 

Paul

 

Did you stop paying them when they failed to respond?

 

The debts I am dealing with are all in my wifes name, not mine. We sent them all a full and final settlement offer of 24p in the pound before Christmas. DLC and CL Finance have replied saying they need over 75% and putting silly 2 week limits on these 'generous' offers. For the last two years she has been paying them a tiny monthly amount via CCCS which would take about 40 years to pay of the debts.

 

I only just found out about the CCA letters and I am hoping that sending them out might encourage the creditors to think again about our offer.

[paulwlton]

Did you stop paying them when they failed to respond?

 

I haven't paid a penny for over 12 months, both agreements are unenforceable imo.

[Josie8]

Did you stop paying them when they failed to respond?

 

I haven't paid a penny for over 12 months, both agreements are unenforceable imo.

 

 

Totally unenforceable - no prescribed terms and not even any reference to them being overleaf (unlike the data section).

[FANTASY CHARGES]

This one seems to have part of the creditors signature in the debtors signature box? :o

 

 

 

At best, improperly executed = enforceable with a Court order, as a result of the signature issue.

 

Of course, there's no prescribed/required terms, so unenforceable because of s.127(3) anyway, IMHO.

 

 

 

 

This one seems to have part of the creditors signature in the debtors signature box? :o

 

 

 

At best, improperly executed = enforceable with a Court order, as a result of the signature issue.

 

Of course, there's no prescribed/required terms, so unenforceable because of s.127(3) anyway, IMHO.

 

The Secretary of State shall make regulations as to the form and content of documents embodying regulated agreements, and the regulations shall contain such provisions as appear to him appropriate with a view to ensuring that the debtor or hirer is made aware of--(a) the rights and duties conferred or imposed on him by the agreement,

Making the agreement

 

Form and content of agreements.

 

 

 

60.

--(1)

(b) the amount and rate of the total charge for credit (in the case of a consumer credit agreement),

 

© the protection and remedies available to him under this Act, and

 

(d) any other matters which, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, it is

desirable for him to know about in connection with the agreement.

 

(2) Regulations under subsection (1) may in particular--

 

(a) require specified information to be included in the prescribed manner in

documents, and other specified material to be excluded;

 

(b) contain requirements to ensure that specified information is clearly brought to the attention of the debtor or hirer, and that one part of a document is not given insufficient or excessive prominence compared with another.

 

(3) If, on an application made to the Director by a person carrying on a consumer credit business or a consumer hire business, it appears to the Director impracticable for the applicant to comply with any requirement of regulations under subsection (1) in a particular case, he may, by notice to the applicant direct that the requirement be waived or varied in relation to such agreements, and subject to such conditions (if any), as he

may specify, and this Act and the regulations shall have effect accordingly.

 

(4) The Director shall give a notice under subsection (3) only if he is satisfied that to do so would not prejudice the interests of debtors or hirers.

===================================

PAUL has nobody picked up on both the small font for the words consumer credit act 1974 (absolutely everything is in a larger font ) and also if not featuring prominently

 

section 60 is reproduced due to 60(2b)

[car2403]

PAUL has nobody picked up on both the small font for the words consumer credit act 1974 (absolutely everything is in a larger font ) and also if not featuring prominently

 

 

section 60 is reproduced due to 60(2b)

 

Good spot! Thanks for adding to my argument...

[Matt5791]

I haven't had time to go through this whole thread I'm afraid, but I just wanted to say that I am currently engaged in a court action with Halifax / Capquest with regard to this issue.

 

Facts

 

Following repeated requests for the agreement from Halifax (which they did not satisfy) and involvement of the OFT (dealt with by David Philpott - google his name and OFT), which Halifax also ignored, the debt was sold to Capquest Investments by Halifax.

 

The request was repeated to Capquest, however they decided to issue Court proceedings against me on 12 November 07 via the Northampton county court bulk centre, and their solicitors HL Legal.

 

Following this I instructed my solicitors (again - they had previously been dealing with it and had got the OFT involved). My solicitor is 100% specialist consumer credit solicitor.

 

Following this we instructed a Barrister from THE leading, and only, chambers in England & Wales who specialise in consumer Credit - what they don't know basically isn't worth knowing.

 

Course of Action

 

We instruced the barrister to:

 

1. Write an opinion of the whole S78/77 requests for agreements etc.

2. Write my defence, and if necessary, defend me in court.

 

We have now filed the defence and await to see if they respond, otherwise it just goes to court.

 

 

Having received the opinion, it is extremely interesting and very thorough - as a Law graduate myself I find it all the more interesting. However, as I suspected, there is a lot of myth and misunderstanding about this whole request for agreements (much of it on this website).

 

When I feel it is appropiate I will post the whole Barrister's opinion on this site (it runs to several pages) as I think it is quite definitive and could be very helpful for those who are unable to afford the services of such people. I am lucky that I am able to afford it (just) as it has cost me a fortune, but in the end I think it will be worth it, especially as I intend to ask the court to award costs against Capquest.

 

I know that this is a "self-help" site, but Consumer credit law is extremely complicated with little or no interpretory case law, and sometimes you just have to get some professional advise.

 

In case anyone is interested the amount in dispute is about £10,000.

[humbleman]

 

When I feel it is appropiate I will post the whole Barrister's opinion on this site (it runs to several pages) as I think it is quite definitive and could be very helpful for those who are unable to afford the services of such people. I am lucky that I am able to afford it (just) as it has cost me a fortune, but in the end I think it will be worth it, especially as I intend to ask the court to award costs against Capquest.

 

I know that this is a "self-help" site, but Consumer credit law is extremely complicated with little or no interpretory case law, and sometimes you just have to get some professional advise.

 

In case anyone is interested the amount in dispute is about £10,000.

 

So very kind of you, any idea when this might be.

[ian1969uk]

as I suspected, there is a lot of myth and misunderstanding about this whole request for agreements (much of it on this website).

 

 

 

Can you at least share some of this myth and misunderstanding?

[Matt5791]

Well I sort of wanted to advance a little further in the case - currently we have filed the defence and are waiting to see if Capquest respond.

 

I'll see if anything happens in the next couple of weeks.

 

Matt

[TheBee]

Hi all! This is my first post (woo!)...

 

Been having a right good rummage and read through thsi site (it's brilliant - well done you!) but just have a quick question if anyone is able to help?

 

Am just about to post letter number one to my bank to ask for my CCA.

 

I took a loan out in Feb 05 with A&L...

 

...I don't for one second think its perhaps right (although its VERY appealing) to try and write the debt off, after all i borrowed and spent the money, BUT would like to try and claim the interest i've paid for 3 years PLUS get the interest cancelled on the outstanding debt.

 

Is this possible? Is this the best i can hope for?

 

Or should i try and cancel the remaining ammount?

 

I have 24 months still to pay. I Have never defaulted on a payment.

 

All advice very gratefully received!! If you need any other inof please let me know...

 

Have added a single line into my letter (is it letter N?) asking for a settlement figure too.

 

Its potentially very exciting but my head is SPINNING!

 

Thank you so so much for any help!!!

 

TheBee

[Honey1932]

Hi Matt 5791

 

Thank you for the info. I first applied for CCA in October but Cap 1 won't release my agreement (which they assure me they have) until they have a signature that matches their records. Bearing in mind this was only taken out in Jan 2005, it is quite likely they have something enforceable. I am assuming this is their defence to not complying with my request as they state how seriously they take security. But can't understand why they won't send me my agreement/application if they are sending other correspondence to my address.

 

I too have consulted a solicitor as the debt is the same as yours and am waiting for his reply once he has gone through all the letters so far. However he can't do much without the agreement.

 

Whilst Cap 1 have been very courteous so far considering, the telephone calls have started and I am getting aprehensive. I stopped paying in December.

 

Any help and advice truly welcomed.

Honey 1932

[gaz2006]

I haven't had time to go through this whole thread I'm afraid, but I just wanted to say that I am currently engaged in a court action with Halifax / Capquest with regard to this issue.

 

Facts

 

Following repeated requests for the agreement from Halifax (which they did not satisfy) and involvement of the OFT (dealt with by David Philpott - google his name and OFT), which Halifax also ignored, the debt was sold to Capquest Investments by Halifax.

 

The request was repeated to Capquest, however they decided to issue Court proceedings against me on 12 November 07 via the Northampton county court bulk centre, and their solicitors HL Legal.

 

Following this I instructed my solicitors (again - they had previously been dealing with it and had got the OFT involved). My solicitor is 100% specialist consumer credit solicitor.

 

Following this we instructed a Barrister from THE leading, and only, chambers in England & Wales who specialise in consumer Credit - what they don't know basically isn't worth knowing.

 

Course of Action

 

We instruced the barrister to:

 

1. Write an opinion of the whole S78/77 requests for agreements etc.

2. Write my defence, and if necessary, defend me in court.

 

We have now filed the defence and await to see if they respond, otherwise it just goes to court.

 

 

Having received the opinion, it is extremely interesting and very thorough - as a Law graduate myself I find it all the more interesting. However, as I suspected, there is a lot of myth and misunderstanding about this whole request for agreements (much of it on this website).

 

When I feel it is appropiate I will post the whole Barrister's opinion on this site (it runs to several pages) as I think it is quite definitive and could be very helpful for those who are unable to afford the services of such people. I am lucky that I am able to afford it (just) as it has cost me a fortune, but in the end I think it will be worth it, especially as I intend to ask the court to award costs against Capquest.

 

I know that this is a "self-help" site, but Consumer credit law is extremely complicated with little or no interpretory case law, and sometimes you just have to get some professional advise.

 

In case anyone is interested the amount in dispute is about £10,000.

 

 

really like to see this wish I was rich ha though if i got all charges back Id be around £30k better off hope you cna send me link or pm me when ready good luck regards Gary

[mobileminx]

Hi. This is my first post here. I have learnt so much from this group. Without it I feel certain I woudl have lost my house and my sanity. So thank you to everyone who takes the time to post.

 

I REALLY need some help please.

 

I have a £25,000 loan with Barclays. I sent them the CCA request and they returned what looked like an application form along with the £1 postal order as they said there was no charge for the requst. There was no signatures whatsover on the application form. I will scan and post it to the site later this evening. I didn't beleive this was the CCA so after the correct amount of time I sent them the follow up latter stating that they had failed to meet my requests and were now in default.

 

The day after receipt of this letter I received a short letter from Barclays saying they would contact me within the next 14 days. However the day after this I received County Court papers. I'm not sure if this is just a pure coincidence and the two things have crossed in the post.

 

Anyway I now do not have a clue what to do. I don't know what boxes to tick or what to say. I am guessing that I need to defend and counterclaim but I have no idea how. I am on Incapacity Benefit so cannot afford a solicitor to help me here.

 

Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated. I really don't know what to do. Also I have heard that I can request for the court to be changed. How do I do this as the court on the form is Northampton and that's a long way from me.

 

Thank you.

[hsbcfiddled]

Hi Matt 5791

 

Thank you for the info. I first applied for CCA in October but Cap 1 won't release my agreement (which they assure me they have) until they have a signature that matches their records(just a thought.....if your signature doesnt match their records...maybe its not your signature that they hold!!!!!! .....or Once they have your signature...THEY WILL HAVE YOUR SIGNATURE..to cut and paste!!). Bearing in mind this was only taken out in Jan 2005, it is quite likely they have something enforceable. I am assuming this is their defence to not complying with my request as they state how seriously they take security. But can't understand why they won't send me my agreement/application if they are sending other correspondence to my address.

 

I too have consulted a solicitor as the debt is the same as yours and am waiting for his reply once he has gone through all the letters so far. However he can't do much without the agreement.

 

Whilst Cap 1 have been very courteous so far considering, the telephone calls have started and I am getting aprehensive. I stopped paying in December.

 

Any help and advice truly welcomed.

Honey 1932

 

 

hsbcfiddled

[hsbcfiddled]

Hi. This is my first post here. I have learnt so much from this group. Without it I feel certain I woudl have lost my house and my sanity. So thank you to everyone who takes the time to post.

 

I REALLY need some help please.

 

I have a £25,000 loan with Barclays. I sent them the CCA request and they returned what looked like an application form along with the £1 postal order as they said there was no charge for the requst. There was no signatures whatsover on the application form. I will scan and post it to the site later this evening. I didn't beleive this was the CCA so after the correct amount of time I sent them the follow up latter stating that they had failed to meet my requests and were now in default.

 

The day after receipt of this letter I received a short letter from Barclays saying they would contact me within the next 14 days. However the day after this I received County Court papers. I'm not sure if this is just a pure coincidence and the two things have crossed in the post.

 

Anyway I now do not have a clue what to do. I don't know what boxes to tick or what to say. I am guessing that I need to defend and counterclaim but I have no idea how. I am on Incapacity Benefit so cannot afford a solicitor to help me here.

 

Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated. I really don't know what to do. Also I have heard that I can request for the court to be changed. How do I do this as the court on the form is Northampton and that's a long way from me.

 

Thank you.

 

Hi Mobileminx,

I am helping my neighbour with his Barclayloan.

Barclays sent him a copy of his application loan also.

Then after the 12 working days plus two and 30 days had expired they sent him a cut and paste version.

If they take you to court they must be in possesion of the original..their copy of the application wont be good enough.

Write back telling them "bring along the original when we go to court"

hsbcfiddled

[car2403]

I haven't had time to go through this whole thread I'm afraid, but I just wanted to say that I am currently engaged in a court action with Halifax / Capquest with regard to this issue.

 

Facts

 

Following repeated requests for the agreement from Halifax (which they did not satisfy) and involvement of the OFT (dealt with by David Philpott - google his name and OFT), which Halifax also ignored, the debt was sold to Capquest Investments by Halifax.

 

The request was repeated to Capquest, however they decided to issue Court proceedings against me on 12 November 07 via the Northampton county court bulk centre, and their solicitors HL Legal.

 

Following this I instructed my solicitors (again - they had previously been dealing with it and had got the OFT involved). My solicitor is 100% specialist consumer credit solicitor.

 

Following this we instructed a Barrister from THE leading, and only, chambers in England & Wales who specialise in consumer Credit - what they don't know basically isn't worth knowing.

 

Course of Action

 

We instruced the barrister to:

 

1. Write an opinion of the whole S78/77 requests for agreements etc.

2. Write my defence, and if necessary, defend me in court.

 

We have now filed the defence and await to see if they respond, otherwise it just goes to court.

 

 

Having received the opinion, it is extremely interesting and very thorough - as a Law graduate myself I find it all the more interesting. However, as I suspected, there is a lot of myth and misunderstanding about this whole request for agreements (much of it on this website).

 

When I feel it is appropiate I will post the whole Barrister's opinion on this site (it runs to several pages) as I think it is quite definitive and could be very helpful for those who are unable to afford the services of such people. I am lucky that I am able to afford it (just) as it has cost me a fortune, but in the end I think it will be worth it, especially as I intend to ask the court to award costs against Capquest.

 

I know that this is a "self-help" site, but Consumer credit law is extremely complicated with little or no interpretory case law, and sometimes you just have to get some professional advise.

 

In case anyone is interested the amount in dispute is about £10,000.

 

I'd have to disagree that Consumer Law requires the benefit of experience of a Barrister. I can't imagine (or want to know) how much that opinion is costing you, but - this is just IMHO - I think there's lots more information on this site then most Judges know about Consumer Law.

 

The simple matter of this issue is that most "consumers" can't afford this sort of legal representation - I think you are the exception in this club.

 

Consumer Law is overly complicated by companies that seek to make it such a difficult subject to understand - in fact, the Acts under which it is regulated is very clear and is designed to protect Consumers, not crucify them. There is also some very recent caselaw that supports this view, so it gets better and better.

 

I, personally, can't see any additional benefit in paying over the odds for legal representation.

 

Of course, if you are willing to share such benefit that you've had, we would be happy to take a look at it. I just hope I don't disagree with it!

[RubyRose]

I am a newbie and have read this entire thread and found it extremely informative and helpful. What i did gather is that the banks are obliged to provide us a true copy of our contracts - now my understanding of 'TRUE' is a genuine copy or original. This can only happen by us having sight of the original or real valid document. Why should we accept a photocopy. This is my interpretation of the CCA.

 

Ruby

[ian1969uk]

Ruby, for the purposes of a section 77/78 request, they can send a copy without signatures or personal details. This is due to the Copy Docs regulations from 1983.