Court Date - Have queries! Help Please?

[Night Owl]

Welcome back!!!

It's oh so lonely!!!

 

Fingers crossed, legs crossed, eyes crossed!!! for a good outcome from the test case.

Good Luck

Night Owl

[GaryH]

Hello stranger!

[fzrkitten]

Helllooooo, thought I just replied but lost it somewhere, sorry! Gary, I pm'd you but ignore it, I started a thread - Urgent Is this a [problem], and there are some answers on there, elsinore sorted me out. Was funny though, guy phoning to tell me we'd won bank charges case and would be refunded in full! When I mentioned CAG he put the phone down, funny that.

 

Nice to speak to you all again - Gary do you know any more about the test case - any murmerings of how the OFT might decide? Know the other website says they think it will say charges are unfair, but I'm finding it hard to hold out for a glimmer of hope!

 

And I know we shouldn't really speculate......

[fzrkitten]

Hi, this news on day 3 of bank charges case, I expect it's already posted somewhere but I had a query - BBC NEWS | Business | Overdrafts are 'core' to banking

 

It says the RBS are arguing an overdraft is a service - what if they didn't let you have an overdraft but still charged you? (That would be my case with Lloyds).

 

Anyone think we can argue that?

 

Fzrkitten.

[fzrkitten]

Hi all, Day 4 of test case below if you haven't found it already

 

BBC NEWS | Business | Barclays begins charges defence

 

Barclays are saying the same:

 

Mr Milligan denied the OFT's contention that Barclays and the other banks were levying fees for purely preparatory work before any service was provided, rather than providing an actual service to their customers.

"If there is at least one obligation on the bank, that is a service, and it is true for both new and old terms," he said.

That this is a charge for a service. I know it doesn't affect everyone, but surely there are a lot of basic account customers that aren't/weren't allowed overdrafts, then surely for them it's not a fee for a service, it's a clear penalty charge for going over a 0 limit?

 

I want to scream at the courts at the mo! And the OFT!

 

Fzrkitten.

[Night Owl]

Hi fzrkitten, SCWEEM and SCWEEM and SCWEEM!!!!

Still waiting for Lloyds and Abbey to get ripped apart in court. Is there any order that they are being heard in?

Night Owl

[fzrkitten]

Hi Nightowl,

 

No idea hun, just what it says in the news really, and that the case might go on til middle feb (!), instead of the 8 days thought, but you never know really.

 

I'll pm you anyway in a mo,

 

Fzr..x

[fzrkitten]

Nightowl, just realised I can't pm you!

[Night Owl]

Hi fzrkitten,

you can only PM if your on my "buddy list"!

Helloooooo buddy!!!!

 

Night Owl

[who]

Hi guys,

 

Does anybody know if I can follow the court case other than highlights on the tv or the in papers? ie a web site or blog that reports daily on the events of the day.

 

Although I keep an eye out I find very little news.

 

I'm at the stage where I had a court date in Bristol last Sept and had a stay put in place and it came to a halt.

 

Also, will there be a new court bundle after the outcome or will the 300 pages I have already printed be execptable.Or do you think when the courts rule against the banks will it be a formalty to have all the charges returned without a court apperance.

 

All the best, Paul.

[GaryH]

Hi all!

 

Paul, I usually follow it on the BBC news website - they update it every few days. BBC NEWS | Business | OFT's bank charges case 'flawed'

 

Once the judgment comes out we'll have to dissect it properly to see what implications it will have for each individual bank - the issues are complex and IMO it's highly unlikely to be a simple black and white case of either the charges are unlawful or their not.

 

That said, if it does go our way and the principles are directly applicable then, in theory, the banks should pay up pretty much on demand and the only thing you would need in your bundle is your bank statements and a copy of the judgment. In reality though I suspect they will attempt to keep stays in place pending an appeal.

[fzrkitten]

Hi,

 

Sorry I disappeared there again didn't I? Thanks for that Gary. I'm still confused about the 'fee for a service' bit that they are hanging the whole case on.

 

In my case, I wasn't allowed an overdraft on a classic account, so how would that be a fee for a service? They just charged me if I went over 0! Surely individual cases need looking at, not just lumping together - although if we do win that's fine of course!

 

Let's hope for a good decision soon.

 

BW,

Fzrkitten.

[fzrkitten]

Hi all,

 

Hope all is well as can be with everyone, just catching up on test case news etc, seen the announcement that it's carrying on in July etc from the post on here.

 

That brings me to the order I got given on my day in court last year, and what I need to do next. Can anyone advise?:

 

Wording as follows:

 

It is ordered that:

 

Unless the Defendant indicates in writing by 4pm on 7th September 2007 that it does not consent to re-allocation, the matter is re-allocated to the Small Claims Track.

 

1. The claim is stayed until further order to await the final determination including (for the avoidance of doubt) any appeal of the claim between the office of fair trading and seven Defendant Banks issued in the High Court of Justice on the 27th July 2007 Number 2007 Folio 1186 ("The Test Case").

 

2. Either party may apply upon not less than 7 days written notice to lift the stay.

 

3. The case shall stand struck out if an application to lift or extend the stay is not received by 4.00pm on 31st July 2008.

4. No order for the costs of today.

 

5. For the avoidance of doubt the claim and/or defence, if struck out by a previous order, is reinstated.

 

Dated 7 September 2007.

 

 

It's number 3 I'm concerned with, the Judge made it clear that this is my problem, to get the stay extended, or the case will be struck out.

 

Can anyone offer advice please? I don't want to leave it too late to act now.

 

Number 5 was because I nearly won before the test case date then they took it off me, and the re-allocation bit was because they tried to fast-track it, so he put it back to small claims, and that's also why 'any previous orders' aren't valid.

 

 

Thanks as usual,

Best wishes to all,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[christinajanep]

hey hey hey.... how are you. getting excited about getting your money back

[fzrkitten]

Hello you! Can't say excited, do ya reckon it's gonna happen? They'll drag it out surely!

 

I'm in a bit better position now, decided to move in with Alan after 12 years, so we are selling my house shortly, and he will have control of money and bills, so I can go back to living in fairy land as far as money is concerned and pretend it does grow on trees! (I'll have pocket money and everything!) Really excited though, just been very hard work for a few months.

 

And how are you?!!!!

 

And can anyone answer my previous post, 338 I think?

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[fzrkitten]

Hi all, can anyone advise on what I need to do to stop my case getting thrown out next month? The judge issued the following on my day in court: (And number 3 was aimed at me, not Lloyds!)

 

It is ordered that:

 

1. The claim is stayed until further order to await the final determination including (for the avoidance of doubt) any appeal of the claim between the office of fair trading and seven Defendant Banks issued in the High Court of Justice on the 27th July 2007 Number 2007 Folio 1186 ("The Test Case").

 

2. Either party may apply upon not less than 7 days written notice to lift the stay.

 

3. The case shall stand struck out if an application to lift or extend the stay is not received by 4.00pm on 31st July 2008.

 

4. No order for the costs of today.

 

5. For the avoidance of doubt the claim and/or defence, if struck out by a previous order, is reinstated.

 

Dated 7 September 2007.

 

 

It's number 3 I'm concerned with, the Judge made it clear that this is my problem, to get the stay extended, or the case will be struck out.

 

Can anyone offer advice please? I don't want to leave it too late to act now.

 

 

Thanks as usual,

Best wishes to all,

 

Fzrkitten.

[fzrkitten]

Hi, just received a letter from SC&M telling me 'how things are going' with my case (guess everyone got one?), but I'm still concerned about previous post, as it's not up to SC&M but the courts, and my court say my claim will be thrown out at end july if a decision not reached by then - any advice anyone? see previous post for order.

 

Hope everyone is ok here,

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[fzrkitten]

Hi, just received a letter from SC&M telling me 'how things are going' with my case (guess everyone got one?), but I'm still concerned about previous post, as it's not up to SC&M but the courts, and my court say my claim will be thrown out at end july if a decision not reached by then - any advice anyone? see previous post for order.

 

Hope everyone is ok here,

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[Enron]

I've contacted a mod who is knowledgeable in this area to take a look at your post.

 

Did you apply under a Subject Access Request for documentation relating to your account under the Data Protection Act?

 

If you did I have an idea which I have passed onto the said mod for their perusal.

 

This being that if they did not include manual intervention sheets as part of your subject access request, they may be attempting to hide information relating to your claim.

 

The majority of overdraft and penalty charge decisions are entirely automated, this costing the bank as defendant a matter of pence per default of contract and not the highly inflated charges made against customers.

 

The manual intervention sheets are important as they can illustrate this, and which instances included human action and which were entirely automated.

 

The central IT banking system of a financial institutions has to deal with millions of entries, calculations, additions, subtractions and so forth a month. Whilst undoubtedly it is expensive to purchase and operate, because of the quantity of work it carries out you are talking a matter of pence for the cost per customer default of any automated process.

 

This arguement may help to get a stay lifted, and the draft order adopted.

 

Though I would wait for comment from zootscoot before considerring the above.

[fzrkitten]

Hi Enron,

 

I originally started my claim just following moneysavingexpert site, but quickly found the guys here, and my story has been a long one.

 

I think we are at crossed purposes, I don't need to LIFT my stay, (well it would be nice), the courts are actually going to chuck my case out if I don't get the stay extended MYSELF after my hour in court last year. I think I just need to phone the court and check what the procedure is next.

 

They totally went on Lloyds side and said that if the case wasn't sorted by the end of July, and I don't ask for the case to stay stayed (!), then it will get chucked out.

 

Zoot or Gary or anyone - any ideas (are you still there guys?)

 

Thanks though Enron, input much appreciated,

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten

[Enron]

Think you need to give them a valid reason for lifting the stay.

 

Know that some banks seem to be settling claims, as there is going to be a ruling on historical terms & conditions soon.

 

Best PM Zootscoot or GaryH

 

Heres his PM page: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=19614

[fzrkitten]

Hi Enron,

 

Ah, it's difficult to explain, I don't need to lift a stay, just that my stay will expire and my case be thrown out at the end of july, if I don't APPLY to stay the case again. They put it at my door for some reason, so it would be good to know if some claims are getting paid. Especially after Barclays dropping their charges to £8, let's hope this is the beginning of the end eh!

 

But I have a feeling my bank will hold on til the bitter end somehow...

 

Thanks again,

 

Fzrkitten.

[lummers]

hi there

 

i am in the same boat my claim also is in danger of getting chucked out if i dont restore the application before 31st july have you had any advice on what to do?

[fzrkitten]

Hi lummers, sorry, been in the middle of a house move and not checked here for a week or two, but no advice, it's all gone very quiet here!

 

I might just go to the court on thursday morning (my birthday, deep joy!) and see what they say, and if I have to pay there and then I guess I will. My claim is for a large amount and has cost a lot of tears so far, I'm not letting them just chuck me out.

 

Have you heard anything since you asked me?

 

BW,

Fzrkitten.

[fzrkitten]

Hi again,

 

I just phoned my local court, and they asked if I could just write a simple letter asap, asking something like:

 

Pursuant to the order dated ******, could I please now have further directions on extending the stay on my case.

 

I'm not sure how you'd want to word it or add, but something simple should be fine. Perhaps just phone your court to see if they have different thoughts.

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten