Welcome Finance CCA

[120805]

Hey everyone my husband has recently sent a CCA request to welcome finance, and they responded with a copy of it, however, the copy given does not have any T&C's attached, does not have a total amount due on it and does not have a cancellations procedure, is this still enforceable or have they not done what he asked in his request

 

Thanks in advance.

[falcon185]

It appears they have not fully complied with your CCA request, they must provide all relevant documents requested within 12 days or they then go into default, a further calendar month after the 12 days ( +2 for postal service ) they commit an offence, I would hold off until that month is complete before taking any further action.

Hope this helps

[120805]

Well the 12 days are up. But Welcome is now phoning my husband asking for payment. What should he do?

 

Bear in mind that they did supply him with a signed agreement. Its just that the agreement was missing a few things as stated above.

[falcon185]

Hi again,

the CCA request should be complied with within 12 days +2 for postal services. If they have not complied within this time you can with hold any further payments until they forward you a copy of the CCA. A further full month from the end of your 12+2 they commit an offence. I would be tempted to hold off until they offend then send them a letter infoming them you will be reporting them to the relevant authorities.

You could also send them a Harassment letter to stop them from phoning you. You should find it within the templates library.

[rory32]

Hi 120805 the 12 days are working days then the next 30 are calendar days. When your hubby requested his CCA he placed the account in dispute. I assume they're over 12 working days now so are being very naughty in asking for payment. When they phone tell them they are currently in breach of The Consumer Credit Act by not providing you with a properly executed copy of the credit agreement. As such you can withhold payment until they come up with one if you so choose. Also tell them you will not speak to them on the phone and any future calls will be viewed as harassment. Then put the phone down. Write to them reiterating what you have told them on the phone. They're some very good letters on harassment by DCA's on the site. Also have a read of this The Office of Fair Trading: Debt collection practices click on debt collection practices.

Oh yes also put in writing

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

1. True copy of original credit agreement

2. Statement of account

[sillygirl1]

When was this agreement originally taken out? I hve an original agreement from them from around 2000 which has the T&Cs if anyone needs a copy - I can scan in no problems - I am going to go for PPI, Healthcare and admin fee.....

[120805]

They're some very good letters on harassment by DCA's on the site. Also have a read of this The Office of Fair Trading: Debt collection practices click on debt collection practices.

 

 

Thankyou for the link it has made a very interesting read and certainly clears up a few things for me

[120805]

Hi everyone,

My husband was looking for some more info with regards to the letter he is thinking of sending in to welcome, should he send in a letter saying they have not done what he asked and then list everything they have missed, ie T&C's cancellation's procedure and total amount payable, or does he let them commit an offence?

We are both unsure as to where we stand just now, the cca has everything else and is signed by my husband, so do they need these missing things to avoid being in default?

 

[rory32]

I would just refer them to your previous correspondence and tell them that they have still to supply you with a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. They know (or should know) exactly what should be on the credit agreement - I wouldn't bother telling them what's missing from the one they sent out. What they have sent you is probably all they have so it's highly likely they'll default. Currently the agreement is not enforceable you want to make this clear to them.

[120805]

Is there a template anywhere that could explain that they have not carried out what I asked and the clock is still ticking?

[rory32]

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

On {date} I requested you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement. Your correspondence of {date} does not comply with my request. If you do not understand how it does not comply then please seek legal advice.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

1. True copy of original credit agreement

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

 

Yours faithfully

 

{Name}

[davefirewalker]

Hi

 

Just recently I had a debt of £2700 wiped out because the agreement wasnt upto scratch.

 

it is very important that you study every aspect of the aggreement and compare it to what SHOULD be on there

 

dave

[rory32]

Completely agree with Dave. While you might think well it's only missing a couple of bits and pieces so it's more or less okay as a credit agreement, the law doesn't allow for such documentation being more or less okay - it's either in order or not. If it isn't it won't stand up in court and the DCA (if they have a brain in their head - the jury's still out on this one) will know this.

Oh, well done Dave on your recent windfall.

[lindsay22]

i am also having major problems with welcome finance, i asked them for a copy of the agreement and they sent me a minimised photocopy with the wrong house number on it???

also there are no terms and conditions

i have sent welcome a letter last week recorded delivery asking for a proper copy of the agreement with t&c's, and also a copy of the t&c's of the ppi as i never had one. i am also claiming mis-sold ppi as my other half whos agreement it is, is self employed and the ppi does not even cover him.

 

I hate welcome finance

[davefirewalker]

welcome are famous for a crap service. if your cca request was worded properly they should have sent

 

1 true copy of agreement

2 terms and conditions

3 Statement of account

 

if any of these were missing or illegible they have defaulted on the request. write back and ask them to resend...remind them that the clock is still ticking

 

remember 12 working days then they are in default

 

one further calender month and they have committed an offence

 

dont take any bs

 

rgds

 

Dave

[120805]

Had another response from Welcome. This is in relation to the letter that I sent (rory32's template above).

 

They have sent another copy of original agreement, a PPI form, loan application and a d/d mandate all have been filled out when the loan was applied for.

 

Still no t&c's

 

Will try and scan the forms later tonight when kids are asleep and post them here.

[LAN01]

 

 

 

This is all Hillesden sent me re a Welcome loan, no terms and conditions etc, but what concerns me is where did the healthcare come from and "estimated" number of repayments?

[davefirewalker]

I can't see anything on there.....at all

 

where are the figures?

where's the apr?

what repayments?

how often?

was it dated

was your sig dated

 

 

we need all this info to check everything is right!

 

just edit any personal data only.

 

you also need the t&c current at the time of signing, and a statement of account

 

Dave

 

more importantly WHERE did you sign it ? (in their office or at home?)

[LAN01]

Sorry Dave never thought of that

 

will scan again and post in a bit

 

Lan

[LAN01]

Here it is

 

[LAN01]

Dave

 

The agreement was signed in their offices.

No T&C supplied and a computer screen print out of payments, charges and interest charged.

[davefirewalker]

Hi…

 

What you have is a non-cancellable agreement. And the law lays down certain things a doc MUST have! Below is an excerpt from the oft “non cancellable agreements” dated 2003 but will still cover your agreement

What the agreement must contain

 

1 A heading in one of the following forms of words shown prominently on the first

page:

Hire-Purchase Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

or

Conditional Sale Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

or, in any other case,

Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

[the heading is wrong] dave

 

Where the document embodies an agreement, of which at least one part is a credit

agreement not regulated by the Act, the word ‘partly’ must be inserted before

‘regulated’ in the heading – unless the regulated and unregulated parts of the

agreement can be clearly seen to be separate.

 

2 The name and a postal address of both trader and customer.

 

3 A description (in sufficient detail to identify it) of any security to be provided by the

customer and a description of its subject matter. The description must be in the

main agreement, but the full terms can be in a separate document referred to in

the main agreement.

 

4 Details of any default charges which the customer or a relative of his is required to

pay if he breaches the agreement.

 

[no default charges] dave

 

5 Certain financial and related particulars (see below).

 

6 Statements of certain protection and remedies provided for the customer by the

Act (see page 12).

 

[no statements of protection] dave

 

7 A signature box (see page 14).

Office of Fair Trading 7

 

Also

 

 

2 The amount of any advance payment. This includes a deposit, any amount

allowed for part exchange and any other payment the customer has to make

before being provided with credit or before entering into the credit agreement.

 

3 The amount of credit to be provided under a fixed-sum agreement (for example, a

cash loan) or particulars of the credit limit under a running-account agreement (for

example, a credit card).

The credit limit can be expressed as:

a a sum of money

b a statement that the trader will, under the agreement, periodically determine

the credit limit and notify the customer

c a sum of money together with a statement that the trader may, under the

agreement, periodically vary the credit limit and notify the customer, or

d if (a) (b) or © above are not appropriate, either a statement indicating how the

credit limit will be determined and notified to the customer, or a statement that

there is no credit limit.

 

4 The total charge for credit and the total amount payable by the customer in the

case of most fixed-sum agreements. The exceptions are given below. Charges

payable by the customer that form part of the total charge for credit are explained

in the booklet Credit charges and APR (see page 3). The total amount payable is

the sum of the amount of credit provided under the agreement, the total charge

for credit and any advance payments. If either the total charge for credit or the

total amount payable cannot be precisely calculated, an estimate can be shown –

provided that this and any assumptions made in the estimate are stated.

 

[ no total amount payable] dave

 

5 not relevant

 

6 The timing and amount of repayments of credit and credit charges. Timing can be

shown by one or more of the following methods:

$ the dates on which each repayment is to be made

or

$ the frequency and number of repayments together with the first repayment

date, or how this is to be calculated

 

7 The APR which must be denoted as ‘annual percentage rate of the total charge for

credit’, ‘APR’ or ‘annual percentage rate’. The only case in which APR need not be shown is in a fixed-sum agreement for credit to be spent on specified goods, land or services where the total amount payable is not more than the total cash price (that is, there are no credit charges). In that case there must be a statement indicating this.

 

-------------------------

 

Statements of customer’s protection and remedies which must be shown

Statements about the main rights of customers provided by the Act must be included in

the agreement in the form set out in Appendix 1. The statement must reproduce the

specified wording. Where words are shown in capital letters they must be made more

prominent (by using capital letters, underlining, large or bold print, or in any other way)

than any other lettering in the form, and no less prominent than any other information

in the agreement, apart from the heading, the APR, trade names, names of parties to the agreement or handwriting.

 

The agreement appears to fall down in that the

 

heading is wrong

 

no statements of protection

 

no statements of remedies

 

No other T&C

 

Total amount of loan is not shown

 

Where you aware of the PPI ?

The healthcare is part of that.

 

Anyway lots of stuff to be going on with

 

Dave

[LAN01]

Thanks Dave

 

Certainly a lot to digest. I will read through again before I decide how to proceed with this. Since Hillesden aren't chasing me as such I think I have a little bit of time to go through it and plan what to do next.

 

Lan

[davefirewalker]

Thanks Dave

 

Certainly a lot to digest. I will read through again before I decide how to proceed with this. Since Hillesden aren't chasing me as such I think I have a little bit of time to go through it and plan what to do next.

 

Lan

 

thanks for the click

 

it was a welcome agreement where i walked away free...they wiped off £2700 because of a crap agreement...very similar to yours

 

Dave

[LAN01]

120803, sorry for hyjacking your thread, but hopefully Dave has answered both of our questions

 

I'll keep you posted as to how I get on and please let me know how you get on with yours.

 

Dave

 

You deserved the click your advice and insight into this matter is much appreciated. As I said earlier now I need to go through everything and plan what to do next.

 

Once again thank you very much for your help so far.

 

Lan