GOT A COURT DATE? Important, please read......

[yosemite]

Gary, could you please advise me on how to present my bundle. Should this be sent in a ring binder or is it best to have it bound? Could you also confirm if I need to include Case Summary and Disclosure by list in addition to Witness Statement and Statement of Evidence. I am claiming against Yorkshire Bank and have been allocated to York County Court Small Claims Track Standard Directions. I am sorry to keep bombarding you with questions, just want to get it right,but my head is spinning with all the reading I have done.

 

Your help in clarifying this for me would be very much appreciated.

 

Thanks Yosemite

[Brasic]

Hi

 

sorry to be a bit dim but....

 

Quote:

2, Is the scottish law report relevant and has anyone else included this.

 

Yes, its relevant in respect of disguised penalties and how they should be subject to the penalty provisions regardless of presentation

 

Would I be warm if I was looking at section 6 of the report. Is this the relevent section to us. Also if it relates to Scotland how does it this tie in to claims in England.

 

Again apologies if I'm missing the obvious here. :-|

 

Brasic

[mattyb13]

Right, Im just going over my bundle noe before I send it off in the morning and have come across this paragraph in the witness statement:

 

“Section 5.8 - Disguised penalties.Objections under the Regulations to an unfair financial penalty can apply to any term which requires excessive payment in the event of early termination, or for doing anything else that the supplier has an interest in deterring the consumer from doing. The Regulations are concerned with the intention and effects of terms, not just their mechanism. If a term has the effect of an unfair penalty, it will be regarded as such, and not as a 'core term'. Thus a penalty cannot be made fair by transforming it into provision requiring payment of a fee for exercising a contractual option.”

 

Section 18 1.3

"These objections are less likely to arise if a term is specific as to what must be paid and in what circumstances. In that case, it may be considered a 'core' term and exempt from consideration for fairness provided it is in clear language and properly drawn to consumers' attention – see Part IV, paragraph 19.12. (But note that this may not hold good if it is a 'disguised penalty', that is, a term calculated to make consumers pay excessively for doing something that would normally be a breach of contract.”

 

I have printed off the document and can find section 5.8 ok but cant find 18 1.3 the document only has 17 sections:confused:

[Brasic]

Hi

 

This is a link that may help

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft311cons.pdf

 

All the best

 

Brasic

[mattyb13]

Thanks the link in the 1st post only goes down to section 17 but the witness statement refers to section 18 so that was a great help.

[Wilks 77]

Cheers for this info, good thread.

[cheljw]

Used the bundle above and Statement. Got a letter saying they where going to pay up £1500! 1 week before court date.

[Just Frugal]

I'm going to include the Lloyds TSB card TnCs in my bundle, but should i then include a para about clause 9.2 in my witness statement re breach?

 

i guess i'm also asking should i detail in my witness statement every document i intent to refer to?

[24nickp]

hi gary in my order from court sc&m were supposed to send me their statment of evedence by the 1st of this month as i did to them but they havent do i let the court know right now or let them know when i take my bundle in any day now!? u can see my order on my thread 24nickp vs low life lloyds! thanks im in need of sum advice so if u could help me that wub be great thanks! Nick

[cashman]

We've got a June 28 hearing for £1300 of penalties with LTSB and today got copy of Court Order instructing [problem] to provide :

1. A copy of original signed lending agreement(incl.Tand Cs).

2. A schedule of the actual charge costs for each and every charge as listed in P's of C.

 

I say we because I have stepped in as as it is my son's claim and HM Gov. has sent him overseas. He asked court by letter to allow me to be his Lay Representative with Rights of audience on the 28th but Judge asked for another N244 application and £65 and he to return to UK to make the application in person.

We now have to think about whether to ask for the case to be judged "on paper" as per Rule 27.9 or (as recommended by court staff) for me to just turn up at court on the 28th and ask judge to review my son's letter (which is on file) and to allow me to speak for him. We are minded to file letter at court by fax on June 20th giving 7 days notice of non-attendance of Claimant in accord with Rule 27.9 (1) (a). Anybody got experience or views?

Having won against Nationwide (£2,600), Morgan Stanley (£600) and Student Loans Co. (£130) we were able to do a nice bundle for the Lloyds claim and [problem] have failed to deliver their doc's and we are keen to finish off the LTSB nicely. I am old, not much good at this computer stuff, but am no idiot and enjoy hitting rip-off organisations.

[ssidders]

Hi Gary, I've got a court date of Friday 29th June at Birmingham County Court. The learned District Judge Cooke himself is presiding and I've just dropped off my court bundle . Copy in the post to SC&M Feeling confident and looking forward to my day in court

[kevinbacon]

If they honoured your DD when you had no money to pay it (Type 2), then I myself cannot put up a convincing argument why Lloyds had not done you a favour, a benefit, a service, deserving of a service fee.

 

Hi Mastermind, just caught your post above and thought that i could put forward a very convincing argument why by paying a DD when there was no available funds to pay it, LTSB did not do me any favors.

A couple of years ago I had 2 DDs one was set up to pay my council tax of £120.00 and if LTSB had paid it I would have been just £3.00 overdrawn. LTSB did not pay it and i was charged both by LTSB and the council. The other DD was for a LTSB loan, again for the same amount of £120.00 and by paying it I was overdrawn by £120.00 yet I did not want this paying as I could not afford it, i thought the council tax was more important, LTSB however did not see it that way. they did not pay my loan to do me any favors, the only reason they paid the loan was because it was their loan. they did not care if i was over my overdraft limit as long as they where being paid. So by making me OD for £120.00 rather then £3.00 they did in fact do me a mis-service. I did try to cancel the DD for the Loan but was informed that because it was set up by LTSB it could not be canceled.

 

That is exactly what has happened with the majority of my charges! I had a Lloyds loan for £2000 which i asked to increase by £1000. They said they could not do this but instead will give me a £3000 loan and pay the £2000 one back. I didn't have enough of the £2000 left to repay so I had to take on both loans over a 4 year period. These were direct debits that could not be cancelled as they were lloyds tsb loans, and these were never returned as it was to the benefit that payment was taken, as they were assured of my monthly income covering the overdraft! It is a very crafty way of behaving! Is there anything about this I can submit to the courts? cos i'm sure that they will claim they were doing me a 'service' for it. Arrrgghhhh i'm so angry!!

[reading rebel]

That is exactly what has happened with the majority of my charges! I had a Lloyds loan for £2000 which i asked to increase by £1000. They said they could not do this but instead will give me a £3000 loan and pay the £2000 one back. I didn't have enough of the £2000 left to repay so I had to take on both loans over a 4 year period. These were direct debits that could not be cancelled as they were lloyds tsb loans, and these were never returned as it was to the benefit that payment was taken, as they were assured of my monthly income covering the overdraft! It is a very crafty way of behaving! Is there anything about this I can submit to the courts? cos i'm sure that they will claim they were doing me a 'service' for it. Arrrgghhhh i'm so angry!!

 

 

Couldn't agree more, exactly the reason I started my mission against the banks. How can you honour your own loan with insufficient funds in the account, yet decline another on exactly same date and charge a 'service fee'

[yosemite]

Does anyone know if you have to include the unfair contract terms guidance which is referred to in Witness Statement sections 5.8 Disguised penalties and Section 18.1.3. Instead of whole document could I just include the relevant pages showing the appropriate clauses referred to.

[Mistermind]

If your bank manager personally realises it really is a case of either the D/Ds or food in your mouth, then he has to use discretion to stretch the rules -- over a limited period, especially if you are an old customer.

 

All DDs are authorised by your personal signature, and you could have cancelled any or all DDs, if you feel honouring DDs were doing you no service. However even managers have auditors poring over lists of loan accounts falling further and further into arrears. There will be certain trigger points when overseeing auditors will instruct the branch manager to get tough and issue bankruptcy proceedings etc.

 

I agree that in certain situations honouring a DD will not help the customer. But bouncing it will not help him either. It is a question which triggers the bigger alarm upstairs -- a loan account falling into arrears, or a current account falling into the red. Whatever institution (e.g. external credit card) is expecting to receive an instalment DD will kick when it stops receiving same. The customer can choose the lesser evil -- either to rely on the bank to pay the uncovered DD, or to formally cancel the DD.

 

In the case of a bank using discretion to honour an external DD in the absence of funds, the bank is risking a bad debt. I would think there should be no difficulty about a customer issuing a standing instruction to the manager "under no circumstances honour my bad cheques and DDs". In which case the bank will NOT be performing a lender-borrower service. Lloyds already have 3 types of accounts with such a builtin T&C.

 

Just one view.

[Pen]

MM, I'm sorry but I totally disagree, firstly we don't have a personal manager anymore, my local branch has not had one for yonks!, all decisions are done using computer analysis. D/Ds set up by the bank to pay loans cannot be cancelled by the customer, I have tried many times.

 

a loan account falling into arrears, or a current account falling into the red. you can easily put a current account back in the black if your salary is paid in each month, personally I would rather have had the loan going into arrears then I might have been able to negoiate reduced payments for a set period or no interest payments.

There are other ways to sort it for the benefit of the customer but that's not the banks way of doing things. I had a 5 yr loan with just one year left to pay, with the interest I had been paying, I had payed the original sum of the loan nearly twice over, but what happened when i became in arrears due to the bank taking chargers out of my account instead of the loan payments, I was forced to consolidate the loan with another loan for another 5 yr period just to get the reduced payments I wanted, that in itself is extortionate yet we are forced into it. if my bank had of paid my loan instead of the chargers each month my loan would have been paid off, even if they had excepted reduced payments for a while, it still would have been paid off, it might have taken 3 months longer then planned but it would have been paid, but !!!! that was not in the banks interest so for the sake of a couple of hundred pounds in chargers over a 6 month period I was forced to take out a loan for a couple of thousand. I am sure the banks must love bad debters because they realise more money then customers who are always in the red.

 

That's my theory and i'm sticking to it:p

[Mistermind]

I agree, the decimation of the branch-customer relationship has been awful. In complex difficulties it takes two humans to set down and work out the least bad option including debt rescheduling, it takes two humans to find a realistic workable option.

 

Perhaps one day when banks finally come to digest and review their current experience under seige from one million unlawful charge reclaimants, that banks would realise cutting staff and contact with customers was a false economy, one which backfired big time. Customer injury and dissatisfaction was allowed to accumulate then to eventually explode, where a face-to-face safety valve would have allowed an earlier resolution.

 

I would say though, that rigid automation is not limited to banks and credit cards. Anybody who found banks unhelpful and has tried out alternative money-lenders in the high street will know -- they are even worse.

[GaryH]

Perhaps one day when banks finally come to digest and review their current experience under seige from one million unlawful charge reclaimants, that banks would realise cutting staff and contact with customers was a false economy, one which backfired big time. Customer injury and dissatisfaction was allowed to accumulate then to eventually explode, where a face-to-face safety valve would have allowed an earlier resolution.

Hear, hear!

[maxey]

I have had a notice of transferral to my local court (for £603 worth of charges) now. Does anyone know what sort of timescale I should be working on in terms of preparing my bundle and ending up in court? Thanks. Very scared. I knew mine would end up in court. They are completely defending the claim. Such a small amount as well, relative to alot others have claimed with NO hassles at all. I am gutted.

[reading rebel]

I have had a notice of transferral to my local court (for £603 worth of charges) now. Does anyone know what sort of timescale I should be working on in terms of preparing my bundle and ending up in court? Thanks. Very scared. I knew mine would end up in court. They are completely defending the claim. Such a small amount as well, relative to alot others have claimed with NO hassles at all. I am gutted.

 

 

Don't panic, all quite normal so far.

 

They have to transfer to your local court, so nothing unusual there. Same has happened to me, although on their deadline date they happened to transfer £750 goodwill refund into my account. I wrote to say remove it or I shall only accept as a part payment, so now continuing with claim for the balance, which is less than £500.

 

Had my notice of transfer on 14th May and court date set for 24th July, if this is anything to go by? They also always say going to defend claim, amount seems to be irrelevant, so just carry on! no need to be guuted, you WILL get your money!!!!

 

RR

[maxey]

Thanks for that. Just had the court date this morning, 31st August, so about the same timescale as yours. Do I need to do anything now?

[panatella]

I have my Preliminary hearing on Monday for which I had to put forward my case - which I did - by 08/05. The bank had to respond by 22/06 but has not responded in any way. Can I request on Monday that the judge strikes them out for not responding?

[fincal]

hi gary please help. i'm desperatly trying to obtain lloyds terms and conditions for when i opened my account in 1998 and i cant get them ..any ideas please???

[GaryH]

Don't panic - its highly unlikely you'll need them.

 

Have you got a court date? If so make sure you get your bundle in on time as per the instructions in post #1 of this thread.

 

If they haven't settled with a week - 3 days to go then PM me. Mind you, the T&C library and Lloyds bundle should be ready to go this week anyway.

[maxey]

My letter just says attend on this date, nothing about submitting a bundle. What should I do and how soon? My court date is 31st Aug.