Caro's Hubby v Lloyds

[caro]

Well it's finally happened. Now that I have won my claim against Yorkshire Bank my husband has agreed that I can take on Lloyds for him. Apparently a win against Smile wasn't enough to convince him, but now he is nagging me to get it done.

 

We have all the statements since opening the account, but as someone had a bit of a problem with a SAR I thought I might as well see what happens. My OH has nearly finished paying a loan off which was to clear an overdraft that would have been made up entirely of charges. He will of course be claiming the interest on that.

 

Also he is paying for a Select account, and I need to look at this in more detail, as I am not clear about the benefits of this at the moment. He has no cheque book or card, no Visa card etc, no overdraft. One year we had an important journey to make so upgraded the AA cover provided to ensure we had Relay as it was essential nothing stopped us reaching our destination, but only for that year. He did ask to have the account put back to a basic one, but instead of that they let him pay £3.50 a month for a few months, but it's back to £7.00 a month now. I know this is a service charge and not claimable as a penalty, but if he isn't getting the service he signed up for then why do they keep taking the money?

 

By the way, the charges will be going back more that 6 years.

 

We have plans for some home improvements this year so I'm hoping it will be a good chunk towards that to save adding it to the mortgage.

 

Look out Lloyds, we're coming to get you!

[ukaviator]

Good luck with your claim Caro . .although i don't think you will need it . .

 

Uk

[caro]

Thank you my friend. To be quite honest I took on Yorkshire Bank and won so Lloyds should be a breeze by comparison. I hope that won't stop everyone looking out for me though as I'm a newby to the Lloyds forum and they do seem to be coming up with some silly tricks lately.

[nicsussex]

Only one thing you need for a Lloyds claim and that is patience!

[caro]

From the SAR to payment from Yorkshire Bank it took 10 months. I can live with an extra 10 months interest from Lloyds too if they want to pay it.

 

Thanks for the heads up though nic. Looks like the home improvements might need to go on hold for a bit longer then.

[Bigmac versus]

Hi Caro 'Look out Lloyds, we're coming to get you!'

Ex Yorkie claimer so they had better just shutup and settle, go get em.

George

[caro]

Thanks George. I've just dug out statements between 1998 and 2003, and was disappointed to find less than I expected in charges. Still, if I have to claim in court, which I guess I will, the interest will be nice.

 

It's funny the reminders it gave me of events in our lives. Where OH had worked, cashpoint in Scarborough when we visited family with the kids and bought my son his first (and only) suit, purchases with my staff discount at an old workplace. I'd better not get too sentimental about it.

[Bigmac versus]

Yip like looking at old photos eh.

[caro]

Today is day 40 since Lloyds received a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and today we've had a list of charges going back to September 2001, not even 6 years, let alone since the account was opened long before that, and the first charges were in August 1998 according to the statements that we do actually have anyway.

 

I haven't checked the list for completeness yet, or to see if I've missed anything off the schedule of charges I've done with the info we already have.

 

What I find interesting, given the defences that Lloyds seem to put in that they only have service charges, is that they have included genuine service charges on the list, and also overdraft interest, which is only claimable on the proportion of the overdraft made up of charges. Maybe I'm being a tad suspicious, but I wonder if this is a deliberate trap to make people try and claim them, so that their defence will look a little more reasonable in court than it would otherwise.

 

There is an accompanying letter, copied below, with my own comments in red:-

 

I refer to your recent request for copies of statements on your account to reconcile bank charges. I sent a standard S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) from the Bank Templates Library and not a request they describe here, or the purpose I intended using it for. Please find enclosed details of charges going back to the date you opened your account, or 1st September 2001, whichever is most recent. Why September 2001, less than 6 years ago. I asked for a complete history which goes back much further. If there are no charges for a certain period then charging details will not be included. How could they be included if there weren't any?

 

You may now wish to proceed with your claim for reimbursement of charges but, if you do feel you need further statements, this will take longer to access our archived data. Please let me know by returning this letter in the attached pre-paid envelope and I will order them for you. Why weren't they ordered 40 days ago when they got the SAR?

 

Under the terms of the Data Protection Act, we are allowed up to 40 days to fulfil your request. I know and they haven't even ordered the archived info yet!

 

The fee of 10.00 has been taken accordingly. Well they did get the postal order but it seems to me that they've accepted the money but not done what it was paying for.

[empowered]

Today is day 40 since Lloyds received a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and today we've had a list of charges going back to September 2001, not even 6 years, let alone since the account was opened long before that, and the first charges were in August 1998 according to the statements that we do actually have anyway.

 

I haven't checked the list for completeness yet, or to see if I've missed anything off the schedule of charges I've done with the info we already have.

 

What I find interesting, given the defences that Lloyds seem to put in that they only have service charges, is that they have included genuine service charges on the list, and also overdraft interest, which is only claimable on the proportion of the overdraft made up of charges. Maybe I'm being a tad suspicious, but I wonder if this is a deliberate trap to make people try and claim them, so that their defence will look a little more reasonable in court than it would otherwise.

 

There is an accompanying letter, copied below, with my own comments in red:-

 

Hi Caro - welcome to the weird and wonderful world that is Lloyds! Some of their templated responses to our various accounts (both business and personal) have had us howling with laughter - they obviously don't read our requests properly and just push a button for a response. My business claim took just under 10 weeks from Prelim to settlement for £5k (thankfully I had all my statements). Am now tackling 4 other accounts with them. Once they are settled, with get on with pre 6 years charges which I think may be a bit trickier! Will watch your thread with interest. Debs:razz:

[caro]

Thanks for the welcome and support Debs. 10 weeks eh? Very encouraging. I have to say though that I'm just going for the whole lot on this account, including pre 6 years in one go.

 

You've got your work cut out doing all those claims, so no doubt I'll see you around the Lloyds forum.

[caro]

What a lot has happened since I started this thread, but finally I've started to look at this claim again.

 

I've put a schedule together with the statements I could find (up to Feb 07) which is just over £4k without interest. I've included charges for having a select account, because although it's a monthly charge for that type of account, my hubby never wanted it and made that very clear. I've also included payments for a loan, which was used to pay off an overdraft made up entirely of charges.

 

I'm seriously thinking of claiming contractual interest. At one time that would have been a complete no no for me, but case law in the last couple of years makes me more confident that this could be the way to go.

[hilaryfrances]

;)good luck Caro, will be watching your progress with interest, I hope the Law lords dont faff about too long and find against the banks, I cant see they had a case at all, their QC just came out with a load of old nonsence

[caro]

Thanks Hils. It's good to get the bit between my teeth with bank charges again even if it seems there's no quick end in sight at the moment.

 

I wonder what the odds are of the case going to the European courts too. I'm not too bothered for myself if there's a delay as I'll just get more interest, but for those suffering hardship the delay is intolerable.

[caro]

What a lot has happened since I started this thread, but finally I've started to look at this claim again.

 

I've put a schedule together with the statements I could find (up to Feb 07) which is just over £4k without interest. I've included charges for having a select account, because although it's a monthly charge for that type of account, my hubby never wanted it and made that very clear. I've also included payments for a loan, which was used to pay off an overdraft made up entirely of charges.

 

I'm seriously thinking of claiming contractual interest. At one time that would have been a complete no no for me, but case law in the last couple of years makes me more confident that this could be the way to go.

 

 

Time to re-visit this methinks. At the first attempt the house flooded, at the second attempt the Supreme Court let the banks keep bank charges, but now charges on missold packaged accounts can be reclaimed, it's time for third time lucky.

 

 

It would appear that the account was converted to a Select Account in February 2001. I've got a letter dated September 2001 showing overdraft interest of 18.9% EAR (1.5% monthly), or an eye-watering 29.8% EAR for unauthorised borrowing.

 

 

Lots of research to do, and spreadsheet to be redone. Big question for now is .... should I claim reciprocal interest of 29.8%?

[SabreSheep]

you could claim reciricol interest, but you would only be able to claim the interest rate for whatevre they were charging you and for the periods of that rate. It might get A BIT COMPLEX.

 

 

INSTEAD

 

Why not try interest in restiution at 29.8% apr

[caro]

you could claim reciricol interest, but you would only be able to claim the interest rate for whatevre they were charging you and for the periods of that rate. It might get A BIT COMPLEX.

 

 

INSTEAD

 

Why not try interest in restiution at 29.8% apr

 

I may not have used the correct terminology. I meant the mutual and reciprocal rate of interest of 29.8% and that would be on the whole lot. I guess you'd call it interest in restitution, or maybe restitutionary damages. The game has changed since I last claimed anything so I need to do my homework, because this goes back to 2001. Using the CIS sheet last night for just a few old "service charges" of £4, this would be a lot of money so I need to be very thorough in my research. If worst comes to worst there's always 8% simple interest .............

[Guest]

caro

some info in this thread that may be useful re packaged a/c, albeit a diff bank.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?434075-Natwest-gold-packaged-account-fees-reclaiming-**WON-%A31100!!**

[caro]

Thanks ford. That's really useful.

[intend]

Hope you keep going with this one. The more who claim for this mis-selling the better. About to start thread for this with Lloyds.

 

Intend

[caro]

Funnily enough I was looking at the spreadie I started on this yesterday and thinking I must crack on with it. Don't worry, I will crack on with it. I'll watch your progress too.

[caro]

Finally I have got all the package fees on a spreadsheet, and between Feb 01 and Oct 07, OH paid out £455.00 in package fees. I have a letter dated September 01 which shows he was being charged 18.9% for an authorised OD, but if it went over the rate was 29.8%.

 

 

Been reading up to try and decide what interest rate to claim back. Sempra Metals Ltd v HMRC springs to mind. http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/2007/34.html

[Guest]

mse site says the stat 8% re packaged acc fees, not compounded?

but i guess that if there has been any 'consequential loss', then that cld be claimed in addition?

[caro]

mse site says the stat 8% re packaged acc fees, not compounded?

but i guess that if there has been any 'consequential loss', then that cld be claimed in addition?

 

 

MSE have always been a bit cautious and seen CAG as being rather gung ho.

 

 

If they can charge OH a certain rate of interest, why shouldn't he charge the same?

 

 

(That's a real question BTW).

[Guest]

MSE have always been a bit cautious and seen CAG as being rather gung ho.

 

 

If they can charge OH a certain rate of interest, why shouldn't he charge the same?

 

 

(That's a real question BTW).

 

 

what i mean re consequential is, for eg, if a package fee caused to go into the o/d then could also claim the interest/charges re that and subsequent.

if already in the o/d, and the package was missold, then guess maybe the difference? for eg i was in an o/d, they tried to flog me a fee package which included a covering o/d at a certain rate under the package, but i worked it out and it wld've cost me more in interest. if that makes sense

 

what again were the circs, was he already in an o/d?

 

ps i recall posting a good link re claiming interest a while ago, cant remember on which thread though atm!