met police red light ticket help!!!!!!!

[liatoby]

can anyone help?

aparently i ran a red light, which i can not remember doing.

i receveied a letter from metropolitan police saying this, i signed and sent it back, and today i receveived another letter back saying that i could contest this red light ticket in court or pay £60 and 3 points on my liecence????

i dont know what to do, can anyone help as i genuienly cant remember jumping this red light!!!!!

thanks

[Filthy Monkey]

When did you receive the original NIP? Was it within 14 days of the alleged offence?

[liatoby]

the first NIP was sent out on 8th march and it says that the alleged offence was on 28th febuary

[patdavies]

You are now stuffed.

 

To prove the offence in court there are two elements; evidence that an offence was committed and evidence as to who the driver was.

 

They have evidence of an offence - the photograph.

They have evidence of the identity of the driver - you have given them that.

 

You can either pay the £60 and get 3 points or go to court. If you do the former, that will be the end of the matter. If you do the latter, there is a slight chance that they will cock up on the court paperwork and you will get away with it. If you do not, then the fine may increase and you will be required to pay costs.

 

Oh, and don't run red lights - people get killed that way

[Guest Gertie100]

Where does it say there is a photograph? Or is that how it works? (asking cos I really don't know...)

Surely if you have photographic evidence that you ran the red light you wouldn't dream of attempting to contest in court because you did it!...?

If you can't remember doing it at the specific place and time, can you ask for the photograph along with accepting the fine and points?

Just a thought!

[patdavies]

Where does it say there is a photograph? Or is that how it works? (asking cos I really don't know...)

Surely if you have photographic evidence that you ran the red light you wouldn't dream of attempting to contest in court because you did it!...?

If you can't remember doing it at the specific place and time, can you ask for the photograph along with accepting the fine and points?

Just a thought!

 

I am assuming that it was a camera offence, otherwise the OP would have been stopped at the time and verbally warned for prosecution.

 

You are not entitled in law to see any of the evidence unless and until you plead not guilty. So you can't get the photograph " along with accepting the fine and points". You may be given a copy of the photograph if you write and ask for a copy "to help identify the driver", but as the OP has already identified himself as the driver that won't work in this case.

[Guest Gertie100]

I consider myself enlightened...:o

[liatoby]

i will just pay the £60 + 3 points, as there is nothing i can do!

oh, and i really dont remember running the red light, if i did i would have accepted the fine, but i thought i would get some advice before i paided this ticket and normally i have gotten great advice by the people on this website, but i guess this time i am buggered!!

thanks

[Chizzy]

I know that this is a different issue, but particularly in the instance of Speeding Tickets DO NOT ASK for the photographic evidence.

 

Use the PACE letter instead. This relies on the fact that under British Law you must have been read your rights before being asked to Plead on a given offence. You provide on a seperate sheet the details of the driver, and attach it to the NIP whilst also telling them that they are not allowed to use the information you have provided in Court. You do nothing with the NIP. They may try and bully you, but just write back telling them once again that you have already dealt with the matter referring them to your letter dated XX-YY-ZZ.

 

If you decide to plead Not Guilty then the prosecution must provide their evidence to the Defence 7 days before the Trial Date. If they don't, and you would be surprised at how may do not, then that evidence is inadmissable in Court. This includes the Photographs. If you ask for them and they send them you have stuffed that up right away.

 

In the case of Red Light jumping most of the above probably holds true also.

 

But as someone else has already said - DON'T JUMP RED LIGHTS! If you did and you don't remember then PAY MORE ATTENTION WHEN DRIVING please. It may be me coming through on Green!

 

And BTW - if you feel bad about being "buggered" on this occasion just consider how someone's family would now be feeling had you killed a son/daughter/husband/wife by your actions.

 

£60 and 3 Points isn't much when weighed up against that, is it? Sounds more like the cost of a half-decent night out and a bit of inconvenience to me.

[liatoby]

went to where i suposedly got red light ticket, and reliesed my partner was driving my car at the time, but he is not insured to drive my car, which makes my case even worse!!!

[patdavies]

went to where i suposedly got red light ticket, and reliesed my partner was driving my car at the time, but he is not insured to drive my car, which makes my case even worse!!!

 

I'm sorry, running red lights is one thing, but being uninsured as well just beggars belief:eek::mad:

 

Perhaps there is a reason to bring back capital punishment

[Chizzy]

As PatDavies said .... especially if he was driving with your knowledge or presence. How irresponsible can someone get?

 

I would do a deal wth your boyfriend - you take the points and he pays your fine and increase in Insurance Premiums! Assuming you declare it (which you need to by the way otherwise your Insurance will be as good as Null & Void)

 

Hopefully you will both then learn from this!

[Filthy Monkey]

I'm sorry, running red lights is one thing, but being uninsured as well just beggars belief:eek::mad:

 

Perhaps there is a reason to bring back capital punishment

 

Absoultely. In fact, while we're at it, let's hang, draw and quarter them too as an example to other motorists...

[Filthy Monkey]

As PatDavies said .... especially if he was driving with your knowledge or presence. How irresponsible can someone get?

 

I would do a deal wth your boyfriend - you take the points and he pays your fine and increase in Insurance Premiums! Assuming you declare it (which you need to by the way otherwise your Insurance will be as good as Null & Void)

 

Hopefully you will both then learn from this!

 

Of course, Chizzy isn't suggesting that you do anything (else!) illegal here. What I'm fairly sure was meant by that statement was that if you're still unsure who was drving and, on the balance of probabilities, it looks likely that it could have been you, then you should just accept the points on your licence as punishment. It looks far more likely to me that you were driving, as your boyfriend isn't insured to drive your car and, therefore, almost certainly would not have been driving it. However, as your boyfriend no doubt loves you very much and would hate to see you short of cash due to the fine, perhaps he could help you out with payment...

[liatoby]

thanks anyways to your sugestions, i know i have been an idiot, but we all make mistakes in life, just needed a bit of advice from people who know what they are talking about, nothing else!

[Filthy Monkey]

Don't worry, some people just seem to forget that we're all human and make mistakes. Let's face it, if we didn't, what would we have to learn from...? Good luck, I hope you get it sorted.

[liatoby]

thanks filthy Monkey, i hope i get it sorted too!!

[Chizzy]

I agree we do all makes mistakes from time to time - but there is something different between, say, making a turn where we shouldn't have done due to poor signposting, being lost, unfamiliar territory or whatever and running a Red Light through either recklessness or lack of attention.

 

Having said that I do hope that 1) you can get it sorted, and 2) that you do learn from it.

 

I know this is going off at a tangent a little but if it was due to lack of attention rather that just pure recklessness can I urge you to get yourself on a scooter or motorcycle and get a licence for that. It's not that I want you out of a car but if you want to bring everything into sharper relief and get to understand just what a danger some people are in cars then there is no better training to be had. Besides that it makes you a better driver through the need for observation & awareness at all times.

 

And before you say "I wouldn't ride a motorcycle, it's too dangerous", then just think about why it's considered dangerous. It's the blind and inconsiderate idiots in cars most of the time! In spite of that it's also more fun and quicker for getting around cities on - most of the time it's also Congestion Charge/Toll Free and usually offers Free Parking.

 

Good luck.

[PKea]

I agree we do all makes mistakes from time to time - but there is something different between, say, making a turn where we shouldn't have done due to poor signposting, being lost, unfamiliar territory or whatever and running a Red Light through either recklessness or lack of attention.

 

Having said that I do hope that 1) you can get it sorted, and 2) that you do learn from it.

 

I know this is going off at a tangent a little but if it was due to lack of attention rather that just pure recklessness can I urge you to get yourself on a scooter or motorcycle and get a licence for that. It's not that I want you out of a car but if you want to bring everything into sharper relief and get to understand just what a danger some people are in cars then there is no better training to be had. Besides that it makes you a better driver through the need for observation & awareness at all times.

 

And before you say "I wouldn't ride a motorcycle, it's too dangerous", then just think about why it's considered dangerous. It's the blind and inconsiderate idiots in cars most of the time! In spite of that it's also more fun and quicker for getting around cities on - most of the time it's also Congestion Charge/Toll Free and usually offers Free Parking.

 

Good luck.

 

And of course all the motorcycle riders stay in lane, never overtake (or undertake) never speed, nevr cut across you.

It swings both ways mate.

Sorry to rant but why aren't theier TV adverts telling bikers to be carefull instead of balming all the car drivers..

And dont get me started on 17yr olds on scooters

Sorry Rant over....lol

[Rob S]

And of course all the motorcycle riders stay in lane, never overtake (or undertake) never speed, nevr cut across you.

It swings both ways mate.

Sorry to rant but why aren't theier TV adverts telling bikers to be carefull instead of balming all the car drivers..

And dont get me started on 17yr olds on scooters

Sorry Rant over....lol

 

There are ads on TV telling motorcyclists to be careful. I guess you just don't see them, just like you probably don't see motorcyclists when you are driving on the road:D

[Chizzy]

PKea

I never said that motorcyclists do anything untoward - of course there are those that will. The point I was making was that the training they go through makes them more aware of what is happening around them for their own safety. We see every ripple, rut, hole, diesel spill, smooth tarmac, overbanding, badly placed manhole cover etc because they are potentially life threatening to us. We also see what you are upto as drivers, and sometimes it scares the crap out of us.

 

I would suggest that you open your eyes on more than one account:

 

1) Read the post before letting your prejudices and venom out

2) If bikers are as bad as you suggest then why do Dept. of Transport figures show that in only 38% of accidents involving a bike and a car was the rider at fault.

3) Get on a bike and find out for yourself pal. I ride and drive. I see bad examples of both. But strangely I have yet to see an incident when a bike has put the life of a car driver at risk just because of poor observance (although I am sure you can correct me on that)

4) The majority of us bikers have already weighed up the pro's and cons of a move before you are even aware of us because you are too bloody dozy or fiddling with your CD/Radio, using the phone, eating/drinking or just plain bored out of your brains from sitting in queues of traffic

5) 17yr olds on Scooters are someone's sons and daughters. They have just found a little freedom for the fiirst time in their lives. They may seem reckless to you. They are inexperienced and young - cut them a little slack you curmudgeonly windbag. You too were once young - try and remember what it was like.

 

I guess what gets your rag is that we bikers do not have to sit in those queues like you! And guess what? We smile more because of that - just that you can't see it! Ha ha ha .... Try being nice for once and let the biker through - he ain't holding you up, it's all the other drivers around you that are doing that. I acknowledge with a wave or 'thumbs up' every driver who moves across for me at anytime, so I ask you all to keep doing that for those of us bikers who do acknowledge your kindness - I am sorry to say that not all bikers do, but that's because they are humans not just because they are bikers. I lose count of the car drivers who also refuse to acknowledge any courtesy shown to them by me in a car.

 

Oh and for your information PKea, filtering is not illegal per se. A Court determined that not long ago when they found a driver guilty of causing a bikers death by turning right without signalling and paying due care.

 

Now go and stay warm and dry in your tin box with airbags, heating, crumple zones, ABS, EBD, Traction Control, heated mirrors, windscreen wipers etc instead of living for the sheer enjoyment of it.

 

Oh, and bye bye - see you when you get there! Eventually!!

[Chizzy]

Rob S

 

[PKea]

Calm Down mate.

I'm not going to argue and hijack the thread, my point was that bike riders can be just as bad as car drivers. And judging by your response you have proved my point.

[Chizzy]

Yeah right - go on then pick the holes in my reply.

 

You started the fight - now finish it. But you can't because your argument was just pure prejudice and nothing more. You may have raised my hackles a little with your stupid comments, but you have also failed to see any of the balance in my reply. I wonder why? Is it because you aren't looking? Again! as previously pointed out by Rob S .... hmmmm

[PKea]

Can a mod remove Chizzy and my posts to a seperate threasd please, so as not to hijack litoby's thread, Thanks

 

Chizzy, have PMed you