Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card

[m55dlc]

63(4) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a copy under subsection (2) need not be

given within the seven days following the making of the agreement if it is given before

or at the time when the credit-token is given to the debtor.

 

Could you explain that in simple English for me please?

 

Regards, Dave.

They have to give you a copy of the EXECUTED agreement. If they didn't sign it (i.e. execute it) how can they have complied? They signed it 3 months later. Therefore they haven't complied with section 63.4

[Peterbard]

63(4) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a copy under subsection (2) need not be

given within the seven days following the making of the agreement if it is given before

or at the time when the credit-token is given to the debtor.

 

Could you explain that in simple English for me please?

 

Regards, Dave.

Hi

It means they dont have to give you a copy if you recieved one between signing and getting the card or with the card

Peter

[Peterbard]

Does a printed signatuer on an agreement count as an executed agreement or does it have to be a hand signed signature. I have a Barclaycard agreement (without t& c's) with a printed one and just wondered if this was sufficient? Have read the thread and have not really got a conclusive answer.

Thanks

HI

 

IMO

The Creditor must sign or have someone sign in his place the lack of a signature would render the agreement unenforceable without the aapprovel ao a court order.But agin IMO they would have no problem in getting one in this instance.

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

I am not convinced that s59 helps in this 'application v agreement' issue any way.

 

Quote:

 

59 Agreement to enter future agreement void

 

(1) An agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.

 

My understanding of this section is that only the clause of such an agreement that states that you are bound to a further prospective regulated agreement is void - not the initial agreement itself!

 

Note it says that 'an agreement' is void - not 'a regulated agreement is void'.

 

A possible case might be if a customer signed a contract of purchase in a store, intending to finance the purchase by a seperate regulated credit agreement, and the contract agreement stated that, by signing that document, the customer would also be bound by any associated prospective regulated credit agreement for finance.

 

Regards, Pam

 

I dissagree the mention of agreement just means thathte current one isn't signed and therefore unexecuted and is the prospective agreement..

 

Regs

Peter

[InKogneeToh]

I dissagree the mention of agreement just means thathte current one isn't signed and therefore unexecuted and is the prospective agreement..

 

Regs

Peter

 

Hi Peter

 

Can you explain what you are saying here please?

 

Regards, Pam

[kennyparkroad]

mmmm this is

 

but ok its an application/credit agreement, but surely it still only SHOWS you applied for credit?

 

Not notification that you were succesful? or am i just being dumb?

[trickytrish]

Hi can anyone tell me what they make of this agreement please?

 

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/trickytrishuk/ccagemoney.jpg

 

its from GE money for a store card the bit they've highlighted in blue is the PPI they reckon was ticked but this PPI only appeared on my statements around 2003 and not before this is what I cant get my head around! it was taken out in 1998 could they have added this tick at some later date?

 

any help much appreciated thanks

[m55dlc]

Do you have statements before 2003 that do not show it?

 

I think they're going to argue that it is ticked, you're going to argue that the mark is in fact a strike through of that entire section, done by the person who filled out the application. They'll say 'honest mistake', you'll say 'honest mistake' and they should refund it. The angle and length, along with a small tick-like tail appears on the other right handed ticks placed on the left hand side of the application.

 

If you have the statements showing you've not been paying it prior to 2003, you should be OK.

[trickytrish]

ah thanks for that m55dlc

 

I've deffinetly got statements without it on the earlier ones before they added it! in 2003 thiswas there letter i recieved also about it!

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/trickytrishuk/fromge.jpg

 

many thanks for your help

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

This document, although obviously an 'application form', does contain all of the prescribed terms (credit limit info./interest/repayment info. in the financial details section.

 

But it does not contain the required statutory statement about your rights under the CCA so is improperly executed. So even if they insist it is an agreement it is still only enforceable with an order of the court.

 

Also since the creditor (GE) is different from the supplier (Burtons) I would have thought that it should contain the CCA statement about your remedies against either for breach by the supplier (s75 CCA) and also the one about limit of liability for loss or misuse of credit token but I'm not certain about these in the store card scenario.

 

If they have only been charging for PPI since 2003 then I would ask them to explain why, if you supposedly signed up for it in 1998!?

 

Regards, Pam

[kennyparkroad]

i would insist that it was never you that ticked that (they cant prove you did) and reinforce that by saying that PPI has only been coming out since 2003, 5 years AFTER you applied, and that with immediate effect you want those 5 years premiums back as you never ticked that box in the first place.

[trickytrish]

many thanks for all your replies on this much appreciated!

 

the 25th of feb and 14th march Letters they refer to was my prelim and LBA for charges and PPI back! this is the only letter I've recieved so far they still have a few days though before the Lba Time expires! Just waiting to see if i recieve anything else about the charges then it will MCOL for them

 

many thanks again for all the advise

[joneshousehold]

On the question of whether interest can be charged on an account if the agreement is unenforceable, I have found a definition of enforce in definition.com as

 

–verb (used with object), -forced, -forc·ing.

1. to put or keep in force; compel obedience to: to enforce a rule; Traffic laws will be strictly enforced.

2. to obtain (payment, obedience, etc.) by force or compulsion.

3. to impose (a course of action) upon a person: The doctor enforced a strict dietary regimen.

4. to support (a demand, claim, etc.) by force: to enforce one's rights as a citizen.

5. to impress or urge (an argument, contention, etc.) forcibly; lay stress upon: He enforced his argument by adding details.

 

I read this to be wider than just to force repayments. Do we have any other definitions or thoughts that may clear this us or at least formulate a good argument.

 

We are also still unclear on the agreement vs application form argument. Has anyone had any thoughts about this yet?

[diskmandave]

We are also still unclear on the agreement vs application form argument. Has anyone had any thoughts about this yet?

 

I think one of the arguements i'm going to use when I get the inevitable where's our money letter from RBoS is that the "agreement" is "executed" nearly 3 full months after they sent the card out........

 

Any more thoughts...?

[progenic7]

Hi all,

 

since MBNA have finally complied with the SAR, they actually sent me a copy of the original application form i signed (i actually requested that they send the true copy of agreement), now i also had the agreement they sent me just after i signed up.

i have attached the scans in the post (cant figure out how to post the jpeg into the post, any help ?) take a look and see what you think of these two items.

which one is the most relevant ?

 

any ideas ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/75615-cca-application-agreement-copy.html

[diskmandave]

(cant figure out how to post the jpeg into the post, any help ?)

 

 

Upload to photobucket and copy/paste the code onto a line of it's own where you want the image to appear.

 

 

Like this

 

 

[zubo]

HI

 

IMO

The Creditor must sign or have someone sign in his place the lack of a signature would render the agreement unenforceable without the aapprovel ao a court order.But agin IMO they would have no problem in getting one in this instance.

 

Peter

 

Peter

 

This (in red) would be after the event then and not a true copy of the agreement and anyway would be unlawful and probably illegal. There is some doubt as to whether a stamped signature truly complies.

 

Z

[zubo]

where's the photobucket in the tools?? you only have an img from a url...

 

Z

[MinnieMouser]

where's the photobucket in the tools?? you only have an img from a url...

 

Z

 

photobucket.com is what they're using to do this

 

MM

[InKogneeToh]

Hi all,

 

since MBNA have finally complied with the SAR, they actually sent me a copy of the original application form i signed (i actually requested that they send the true copy of agreement), now i also had the agreement they sent me just after i signed up.

i have attached the scans in the post (cant figure out how to post the jpeg into the post, any help ?) take a look and see what you think of these two items.

which one is the most relevant ?

 

any ideas ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/75615-cca-application-agreement-copy.html

 

Hi

 

The first document is just an application form and does not have any of the prescribed terms on so is wholly unenforceable anyway. The second document does have the prescribed terms but is not signed, is NOT a 2nd copy of your agreement that you should have received with the card, has no statements of statutory rights and remedies, no cancellation notice etc etc. So neither document is enforceable full stop!!

 

Regards, Pam

[rinkydinkydoo]

HI, do you think is a cca or just an application, i,m stupmed:-|

[InKogneeToh]

HI, do you think is a cca or just an application, i,m stupmed:-|

 

Hi

 

Is there any way you can enlarge the small print section and scan it the right way up? I'd like to see what it includes.

 

Regards, Pam

[rinkydinkydoo]

[rinkydinkydoo]

The signature, not my one, looks as though there is print in it, i,m not convinced aits a trtue signature, what do you think

[Guest Battleaxe]

 

I have enlarged mine from Capital One it is the same as posted. I posted my original agreement on this thread and it is identical.