ILLEGAL CCJ on ACCOUNT - DESPERATE!**WON AT LAST**

[tiglet]

Don't worry Electric - use that letter and see what happens - you ahve our full support on here.

[The GodMother]

I cant carry her due to being pregnant but l will help with the bags:D

[car2403]

I think tom is trying to say the letter in post 332 is fine for this.

 

Persinally l would use this letter admending as necessary and adding in the list of statements that you are still missing.

 

I would make it very clear, using block capitals blod print underlining however you feel is best, that you want the case struck out and that you feel giving them more time would only give them more time to mess the courts and yourself about. Also make sure you add that you feel it is unfair on how they have wasted courts valuable time.

 

then send it off. If you want furter reasurance then post it up and we will help u further.

 

Chrissi

 

I don't think they'll strike out now, but an unless order is definately required and I can't see why the Court wouldn't give one now, IMHO.

[electric lemon]

Thanks Tom,

 

I forgot about that letter - whoops!

 

I think what Godmother has said too is a very good idea about the bold print etc.

 

I guess I really need to put some court type vocabulary in there pertaining to the suggestion of an unless order or strike out but dont want to cheese off the Judge.

[The GodMother]

l am not a legal speak expert that is tom and paul.

 

l think you defently need to get some type of order as they are just taking the urine now.

[manjusha]

Hi Electric,

 

The reason I asked about clause 7 is because it is mentioned in your Particulars of claim (as was mine). But when I asked for a copy of the credit agreement they supplied me & filed at court a different set of terms of conditions. These were numbered in a way that there wasn't a clause 7 at all. That was one of the main reasons my claim was struck out. This could explain why on your T & C clause 7 is highlighted.

[manjusha]

Hi Guys,

 

Manjusha, your input is very important so thank you for taking the time to assist in my case. Its very much appreciated.

 

Aaaah, the query I had over clause 7 is unrambling......when CL sent the copy to me they used a green highlighter to highlight clause 7, but I cant read it anyway as its so small.

 

What does it mean as clearly its significant. (to my detriment I feel?!)

 

The amounts stated on the default notice & deed of assignment do indeed incude penalty charges, of which they are aware as they sent me a letter stating such, and quoted only 4 charges, though there may be more but I cant say for sure as there are, as Im sure you have gathered many months of statements still missing.

 

baby daughter is up & crying, with an ear infection so have to shoot - will read up on other info posted tomorrow.

 

Nite all.

EL

X

EL,

 

Just had a thought. You said that you can't read clause 7 because its very small.

 

s61 of CCA 1974 Signing of agreement

 

(1)(c )A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

 

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

Surely, if the Terms & conditions they provided are not readily legible then the agreement is improperly executed. You could then use the s127 argument. Its a loose argument in this case as it will be hard for you to prove any prejudice caused to you by this text being illegible and IMHO, the agreement you signed did have all the prescribed terms.

 

But if they do provide all statements at last minute, then you need a plan B.

 

And I believe it should be the above +

 

default notice & NOA unenforceable as amount specified has Penalty charges+

Default never received (they can't prove you did) +

NOA not received(again they cannot prove it), +

NOA has wrong date of claim being issued +

Even if claim could be issued on the 9th March, NOA dated the same day, so would not have been received prior to claim being issued +

Vexatious Litigation by Claimant resulting in the wastage of costs & time for the Courts & you

 

Manjusha

[tiglet]

That is absolutely true - HOWEVER if they produce the legible copy in court, the judge will allow it.

[manjusha]

EL,

 

Your credit agreement & letters scanned are so identical to mine. The only difference (maybe the vital one) is that my one hasn't got that 1st para on APRs (in the box). I also argued that the document starts of by saying "Thank you for taking the time to apply for an account card." If I remember correctly it also says something on the likes of "By making this application....." just above where you sign. I asked the Judge does this mean this is an application or a credit agreement. The Judge thought about it for ages and said its a good question, as he can see anyone would be confused. He then said he believes this is NOT an application but is a credit agreement.

 

I also argued that I was not given a copy of the credit agreement at the time or sent a copy in the post.

[car2403]

default notice & NOA unenforceable as amount specified has Penalty charges+

 

This has to be the best "plan B", as it makes the debt unenforceable regardless of what the agreement states anyway. (Woodchester Lease Management v Swain)

 

Default never received (they can't prove you did) +

 

They don't have to prove it was received. They are only required to show it was sent. (See above, however)

 

Vexatious Litigation by Claimant resulting in the wastage of costs & time for the Courts & you

 

This will only play a part if it's fast track, or small claims and the Court allows it under CPR Part 27.14.

[electric lemon]

FOR THE ATTENTION OF THE CASE MANAGER

In the Matter of

 

CL FINANCE

vs

MRS ELECTRIC LEMON

Case No XXXXXXX

In the LEMONEY COUNTY COURT

 

 

The Court Manager

LEMONEY County Court

The Law Courts

XXXX Way

LEMON COUNTY

 

 

26th February 2008

 

XXX LEMON DRIVE

Lemton

Squashington

xxxxxxx

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

RE: PROBLEMS AMENDING DEFENCE.

I would like to inform you that I am continuing to have problems with this case.

 

As you are aware, on xxth August 2007, Judge xxxx first ordered disclosure of all account statements between xxnd June 2002 and February 2007. This was followed up by another order by Judge xxxxxx on xxth December 2007.

 

The claimant has still failed to provide the documents ordered by the Court since the inception of the account on xxnd June 2002, and this failure has continued for over half a year.

 

The claimant has still failed to furnish me with the following statements as ordered by the Court:

 

(20 x dates/months put here)

 

I am still therefore unable to formulate an appropriate Defence and Counter Claim.

 

You also might not be aware that the claimant issued the Notice of Assignment the day that it first issued Court proceedings. This prevented me from ever being able to negotiate an out of court settlement with them, and is contrary to the Pre-Action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

I am consequently still unable to assess the amount I owe (if anything), and defend the rest of the action in accordance with the arguments issued in the OFT test case.

 

Yours Faithfully,

Mrs Electric Lemon

 

Enc; – Court order dated x September 2007

Court order dated xx December 2007

 

Should I put anything in here pertaining to a request for the claim to be struck out, or request an "Unless order" or make a little suggestion of either one????

 

Also, should I put this in as well or would it be too much??? (thanking Manjusha for her paragraph, though it was part of her defence/cc)

 

......I refer to the FSA disciplinary history for GE Capital Bank Ltd. On 30 January 2007, the FSA fined GE Capital Bank £610,000 in respect of breaches of FSA principles, mainly Principle 2(due skill, care & diligence), principle 3 (management & control) & Principle 6 ( Customer’s interests) . This fine proves that GE Capital are known to the authorities for breach of regulations and improper conduct......

[electric lemon]

What about adding this too:

 

I feel that to date CL Finance have been inconsistent & vexatious towards the defendant in their disregard of the Courts orders showing a blatant disregard for Judge XXX instructions, in addition to wasting the Courts time.

 

Giving any consideration for further time to CL Finance may well result in an additional and further waste of the defendants and the Courts valuable time, & I would respectfully request that a decision be made to strike out this order.

 

?????

 

I only have tomorrow to get this down to the Court in person as I am working Thursday & Friday, so if anyone is around tonight/tomorrow morning it would be invaluable.

 

Huge thanks,

Lemoney

[pt2537]

Hi El,

 

i think you are going to run the risk of over complicating things

 

i would , if you really wish to add anything, add something along these lines

 

the claimant has shown a disregard of the Courts orders and Judge XXX instructions, in addition to wasting the Courts time.

 

allowing further time to the claimant may well result in further waste of the defendants and the Courts valuable time, therefore the defendant respectfully request that a decision be made to strike out this order.

[electric lemon]

I think Paul, that you are right.

 

That sounds much more concise. Many thanks:

 

Ok here is the proper draft copy:

 

FOR THE ATTENTION OF THE CASE MANAGER

In the Matter of

 

CL FINANCE

vs

MRS ELECTRIC LEMON

Case No XXXXXXX

In the LEMONEY COUNTY COURT

 

The Court Manager

xxxx County Court

The Law Courts

XXXX Way

xxxx COUNTY

 

 

26th February 2008

 

XXX DRIVE

xxxxxx

xxxxxx

xxxxxxx

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

RE: PROBLEMS AMENDING DEFENCE.

I would like to inform you that I am continuing to have problems with this case.

 

As you are aware, on xxth August 2007, Judge xxxx first ordered disclosure of all account statements between xxnd June 2002 and February 2007. This was followed up by another order by Judge xxxxxx on xxth December 2007.

 

The claimant has still failed to provide the documents ordered by the Court since the inception of the account on xxnd June 2002, and this failure has continued for over half a year.

 

The claimant has still failed to furnish me with the following statements as ordered by the Court:

 

(20 x dates/months put here)

 

I am still therefore unable to formulate an appropriate Defence and Counter Claim.

 

You also might not be aware that the claimant issued the Notice of Assignment the day that it first issued Court proceedings. This prevented me from ever being able to negotiate an out of court settlement with them, and is contrary to the Pre-Action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

I am consequently still unable to assess the amount I owe (if anything), and defend the rest of the action in accordance with the arguments issued in the OFT test case.

 

The claimant has shown a disregard of the Courts orders and Judge XXX instructions, in addition to wasting the Courts time.

 

Allowing further time to the claimant may well result in further waste of the defendants and the Courts valuable time, therefore the defendant respectfully request that a decision be made to strike out this order.

 

Yours Faithfully,

Mrs Electric Lemon

 

Enc; – Court order dated x September 2007

Court order dated xx December 2007

[The GodMother]

yep sounds good.

 

So where is squeezington?

[car2403]

Shouldn't that be?;

 

Allowing further time to the claimant may well result in further waste of the defendants and the Courts valuable time, therefore the defendant respectfully request that a decision be made to strike out this claim.

 

I'd also include some authority for asking for this - like this;

 

Allowing further time to the claimant may well result in further waste of the defendants and the Courts valuable time, therefore the defendant respectfully request that a decision be made to strike out this claim. I am aware that the Court has such powers under CPR Part 3.4(2)(a), in that that the statement of claim is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings if the claimant continues to disobey the Courts orders, and under CPR Part 3.4(2)(b) due to there been a failure to comply with a court order already.

 

It's stating the bleeding obvious, but the Judge is only likely to scan the letter, so pointing out what they can - and should - be doing under CPR may draw their attention to a greated extent.

 

Don't forget to send a copy of this to the other side - they way they can't claim you are "going behind their back" to get the case struck out.

 

If this don't work I don't know what will?!

[manjusha]

EL, That looks perfect. I wouldn't leave it till tomorrow just in case. Have to rush to work now but good luck.

X

[electric lemon]

Car that looks a great suggestion enclosing further legal speak & clauses. I appreciate your time.

 

Thanks all for your input.

 

Unless anyone else feels there is anything else that may benefit this situation, I shall be off after lunch to the Courts to hand it in.

 

Leccy

x

[electric lemon]

Hi all,

 

All Done.

 

My letter to the case manager went in by hand delivery at 3.p.m. with copies of support i.e. copies of the previous Judges orders, and its a relief.

 

Now just have to sit & wait to see what Judge XXXXXX decides upon.

 

Must just add that whilst I was there I saw a sign on one of the windows that the Courts will do photocopying for you.........@ £5 per sheet!!!!!!!!!!! Outrageous!!!!

 

I can only imagine its set at such an extortionate rate in order to discourage people from using the service, but why do that just dont offer anything to the public. Wow - thats got to be the most expensive Ive ever seen - can anyone beat that??!!

 

Thanks again masses for all of you that so kindly assisted me with this. My sincere gratitude to you all.

 

Leccy

xxxxxx

[car2403]

I can only imagine its set at such an extortionate rate in order to discourage people from using the service, but why do that just dont offer anything to the public. Wow - thats got to be the most expensive Ive ever seen - can anyone beat that??!!

 

Ah, but is it a fair price for a service, or is this a penalty charge, recoverable at law?

 

[tiglet]

Now, now ...

[car2403]

Ah, but is it a fair price for a service, or is this a penalty charge, recoverable at law?

 

 

Lets start a claim... Imagine the Judges face...

[tiglet]

report 'em to TS

[The GodMother]

I have a all in one machine so i just do it my self.

 

I thought my courts were bad for demanding you print of three of everything, even covering letters, or your application does not get started.

 

why 3 covering letters. The letter does not get passed to the other party.

[car2403]

I have a all in one machine so i just do it my self.

 

I thought my courts were bad for demanding you print of three of everything, even covering letters, or your application does not get started.

 

why 3 covering letters. The letter does not get passed to the other party.

 

1 for you, (a copy of a claim isn't true unless sealed by the Court) 1 for the Court and 1 for the other side. (It should be served on them)