BCW and Aktiv

[chimaeradave]

Hi

 

Bit of a long one I'm afraid:

 

Back in November other half received a final notice of payment of a debt from BCW on behalf of Aktiv Kapital.

 

We knew nothing of this debt and checked on Equifax and Call Credit - nothing showing.

 

We sent a CCA request for copies of the credit agreement, deed of assignment and statement of account - copied to BCW and Aktiv by recorded delivery.

 

Over a a month later we get a photocopy of the credit agreement from BCW - but no deed of assignment or statement of account.

 

We reply again asking for this information - yet all we get back is another formal demand - with the comment that we are not trying to resolve this issue - when we clearly are.

 

We talked to CAB and they phoned BCW demanding the deed of assignment and statement. BCW stated account was on hold until these arrived.

 

1 month later no paperwork appears but another final demand.

 

In the meantime other half contacts Experian and low and behold she has a CCJ against her from CL Finance on behalf of GE Capital for £315. This was news to us! We contacted the court and got a copy of the judgement summary (no further details though).

 

So we phoned Aktiv 2 weeks ago asking for deed of assignment and statement of account. They said they'll post them.

 

2 weeks go by we get another final demand from BCW.

 

So today we phone Aktiv again, and state that we need to see the deed of assignment and statement of account. The Aktive chap was all defensive and stated that it would take 12 weeks to get the details from CL Finance as they didn't have them. Though he did finally concede that he could fax over the deed of assignment (not received yet)

 

He then went on to say that it would cost Aktiv more to get the details than the value of the debt (£315) - so he made an offer - pay now over the phone for just £185.

 

This seems very odd why take less money from us than the debt is worth?

 

I guess our concerns are these:

 

we still don't have any written proof of the debt (statement of account)

 

we still don't as yet (though we await the fax of the deed of assignment) that Aktiv are the "owners/managers" of said debt

 

if the debt is real we want make sure the correct creditor is paid to clear the CCJ (is this GE, CL, Aktiv or BCW).

 

edited to add that we have the fax of the deed of assignment.

 

Should we ask Aktiv to fax us their offer and the conditions it applies - so we have physical evidence. Or should we write (again) to them requesting the statement of account.

 

If we do take up the offer, what do we need of Aktiv to get the CCJ cleared?

 

sorry its a long one - but thanks in advance if anyone can help.

 

CD

[pmhcfc]

Hi

 

Bit of a long one I'm afraid:

 

Back in November other half received a final notice of payment of a debt from BCW on behalf of Aktiv Kapital.

 

We knew nothing of this debt and checked on Equifax and Call Credit - nothing showing.

 

We sent a CCA request for copies of the credit agreement, deed of assignment and statement of account - copied to BCW and Aktiv by recorded delivery.

 

Over a a month later we get a photocopy of the credit agreement from BCW - but no deed of assignment or statement of account.

 

We reply again asking for this information - yet all we get back is another formal demand - with the comment that we are not trying to resolve this issue - when we clearly are.

 

We talked to CAB and they phoned BCW demanding the deed of assignment and statement. BCW stated account was on hold until these arrived.

 

1 month later no paperwork appears but another final demand.

 

In the meantime other half contacts Experian and low and behold she has a CCJ against her from CL Finance on behalf of GE Capital for £315. This was news to us! We contacted the court and got a copy of the judgement summary (no further details though).

 

So we phoned Aktiv 2 weeks ago asking for deed of assignment and statement of account. They said they'll post them.

 

2 weeks go by we get another final demand from BCW.

 

So today we phone Aktiv again, and state that we need to see the deed of assignment and statement of account. The Aktive chap was all defensive and stated that it would take 12 weeks to get the details from CL Finance as they didn't have them. Though he did finally concede that he could fax over the deed of assignment (not received yet)

 

He then went on to say that it would cost Aktiv more to get the details than the value of the debt (£315) - so he made an offer - pay now over the phone for just £185.

 

This seems very odd why take less money from us than the debt is worth?

 

I guess our concerns are these:

 

we still don't have any written proof of the debt (statement of account)

 

we still don't as yet (though we await the fax of the deed of assignment) that Aktiv are the "owners/managers" of said debt

 

if the debt is real we want make sure the correct creditor is paid to clear the CCJ (is this GE, CL, Aktiv or BCW).

 

edited to add that we have the fax of the deed of assignment.

 

Should we ask Aktiv to fax us their offer and the conditions it applies - so we have physical evidence. Or should we write (again) to them requesting the statement of account.

 

If we do take up the offer, what do we need of Aktiv to get the CCJ cleared?

 

sorry its a long one - but thanks in advance if anyone can help.

 

CD

 

Before we tackle anything else...A CCJ you say? Is it at your present address?! What court was it in, and how much is the judgement for? If you do have a County Court Judgement against you, and you haven't paid it- they would have sent in the baliff's by now...Can you clear this point up first and we'll go from there...In the meantime- no more phoning Aktiv!!

[chimaeradave]

Before we tackle anything else...A CCJ you say? Is it at your present address?! What court was it in, and how much is the judgement for? If you do have a County Court Judgement against you, and you haven't paid it- they would have sent in the baliff's by now...Can you clear this point up first and we'll go from there...In the meantime- no more phoning Aktiv!!

The CCJ is at a previous address - we knew nothing of it (even though we had a 6 month postal redirect which should have covered the dates stated on the CCJ). It was Northampton for £315.

 

And re: phoning OK I'll let the other half know!

 

thanks.

[pmhcfc]

The CCJ is at a previous address - we knew nothing of it (even though we had a 6 month postal redirect which should have covered the dates stated on the CCJ). It was Northampton for £315.

 

And re: phoning OK I'll let the other half know!

 

thanks.

 

Hmmm...Going to have to hope someone else comes to the thread who knows more about getting CCJ's set aside...I'm sure there's a point re not knowing anything about the court order in the first place, although I'm not certain so I won't advise on that point. 2) What's the amount you have to pay each month on the CCJ. It's advisable (at this juncture) that you pay that amount as they will possibly execute a warrant and send baliff's in.

Once this important point is dealt with, we can move along with what else you can do re a SAR and a CCA. But as I said, don't ring Activ, keep everything in writing.

As for Activ saying pay £185 to clear when there's a supposed CCJ for £315.00 hmmm...THat seems wrong wrong wrong...Sorry to bang on on this point, but you're positive there's a CCJ ?

[pmhcfc]

OOps..sorry...you said in your first post that there was a CCJ on your wife's file...Seems weird all this....

Send a CCA to Aktiv first and foremost. Use this letter below...Don't forget the £1.00 postal order and send recorded.

 

To Whom It May Concern

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Yours Faithfully

[chimaeradave]

2) What's the amount you have to pay each month on the CCJ. It's advisable (at this juncture) that you pay that amount as they will possibly execute a warrant and send baliff's in.

 

It doesn't say on the summary sheet we have about a minimum monthly payment.

 

The ability to pay the debt is not an issue, it is the fact that Aktiv and BCW have failed to fully supply the documents we requested (and we paid the pound) - i.e. we are still waiting for the statement of account.

 

We have a photocopy of the Credit Agreement (took more than a month) and a fax of the deed of assignment (got it today so over 3 months).

 

Is this now enough for the debt to be proven and that Aktiv are the managers of the debt.

 

The odd thing was the phone offer of settling direct for just £185 - just made it sound iffy.

 

I guess we write to them asking them to confirm in writing their offer - or do we push for the statement of account?

 

thanks again.

[chimaeradave]

OOps..sorry...you said in your first post that there was a CCJ on your wife's file...Seems weird all this....

Send a CCA to Aktiv first and foremost. Use this letter below...Don't forget the £1.00 postal order and send recorded...

 

Thanks, we did all that back in November, all we have received is a photocopy of the credit agreement from BCW. Though today we should have a fax of the deed of assignment from Aktiv.

 

edited to add we keep getting monthly reminders from BCW so we sought CAB advice who phoned BCW on our behalf.

 

cheers!

[kennyparkroad]

are you sure its the credit agreement with amount borrowed, interest that sort of thing and NOT an application (as lots of them do send out the application)

 

Kenny

[chimaeradave]

As for Activ saying pay £185 to clear when there's a supposed CCJ for £315.00 hmmm...THat seems wrong wrong wrong...Sorry to bang on on this point, but you're positive there's a CCJ ?

 

According to Experian yes there is a CCJ .And we got a copy of the CCJ summary from Northampton County Court.

 

This is why we are suspicious of Aktiv - why would they make an offer of a lower amount?

[chimaeradave]

are you sure its the credit agreement with amount borrowed, interest that sort of thing and NOT an application (as lots of them do send out the application)

 

Kenny

It looks like the application form to be honest (it is not in front of me ATM), it had no figures non it at all. It was a store card BTW.

 

We have not seen anything from the original creditors (GE Capital it seems) that has a statement of account - so no proof of the original debt as far as I can tell.

 

thanks

[pmhcfc]

It looks like the application form to be honest (it is not in front of me ATM), it had no figures non it at all. It was a store card BTW.

 

We have not seen anything from the original creditors (GE Capital it seems) that has a statement of account - so no proof of the original debt as far as I can tell.

 

thanks

 

Hmm...Going to have to wait for someone to come along who knows about this sort of thing percisely...Just one other question, was the CCA sent recorded? I can't understand why they are doing what they are doing (or not doing as the case may be) even though they have a CCJ..

[kennyparkroad]

if its an application form then that is not a CCA request

 

someone will tell you the particulars of what should be in it, but it should be a balance and other things, including interest etc!

 

and should have the words Consumer Credit in there too!

[chimaeradave]

Just one other question, was the CCA sent recorded?

yes all 5 letters we have sent (to Aktiv, BCW or both) were recorded and signed for (good old Post Office means you can get the signatures online!)

[chimaeradave]

update:

 

We have the fax from Aktiv that they claim is a deed of assignment showing that they manage the debt.

 

However all it is a letter created by themselves (their headed paper, their signature) stating they manage the debt from CL Finance.

 

Surely this can't be right?

 

Surely CL Finance or some other authority must state the re-assignment of the agreement to a third party - not the third party simply making the claim!

 

[cynic mode]

if it is the case anyone can search for CCJs (they are public records no?) and then write a letter stating that they now manage the debt on behalf of XYZ when in fact they don't

[/cynic mode]

 

Should we write to CL Finance to get a deed of assignment from them?

 

Or is this all really above board?

 

TIA

[gizmo111]

The important thing here is to get the CCJ set aside and then worry about challenging the debt - what date did they apply for the CCJ and have you received notice of t his.

[chimaeradave]

The important thing here is to get the CCJ set aside and then worry about challenging the debt - what date did they apply for the CCJ and have you received notice of t his.

The CCJ was issued in March 2004 to our old address - but we knew nothing of it despite having postal redirect that would have covered the period. (i.e. no bills from store card, no final reminders etc, nothing). First we heard about this was Nov, 2006 when BCW wrote their first letter.

 

How do we go about getting the CCJ set aside? Is it not too late almost 3 years on?

[gizmo111]

The CCJ was issued in March 2004 to our old address - but we knew nothing of it despite having postal redirect that would have covered the period. (i.e. no bills from store card, no final reminders etc, nothing). First we heard about this was Nov, 2006 when BCW wrote their first letter.

 

How do we go about getting the CCJ set aside? Is it not too late almost 3 years on?

 

As you never knew about it and neer contested it it is possible to get it set aside.

|If however you don't get it set aside and just accept it then requesting all the paperwork is irrelevant.

Do you beleive that the amount of the CCJ is correct and applies to the alledged debt?

[chimaeradave]

Do you beleive that the amount of the CCJ is correct and applies to the alledged debt?

The amount quoted on the CCJ matches the amounts quoted by BCW and Aktiv and match the values stated on a Experian credit check as defaulted payments to GE Capital.

 

So does this all sound above board?

 

However, we still don't recognise the debt as we have no records of it at all, no statements etc.

 

Now we did move house, and it is possible that we used the store card, and it is possible we have made a mistake. The problem is without seeing any statements we don't know what the debt alludes to.

 

If the debt is genuinely ours we'll gladly pay - but we want to make sure we pay the correct people so we can inform the court that the CCJ has been paid.

[tiglet]

Sticking my oar in here, i would firstly get the CCJ set aside. thsiwill completely bugger up your credit record and needs to be done now.

 

Secondly, get in contact with OFT & TS as they haven't complied with the CCA. Get someone else to help sort this out - they clearly ahven't listened to you and aren't likely to do so now.

 

I would also send off an SAR to GE and find out what has actually happened with your account. if you genuinely can't remember, it could be a case of identity fraud or other fraud.

[chimaeradave]

thanks for all the advice, we'll address the CCJ issue.

 

D

[chimaeradave]

and so it continues...

 

We now get yet another letter from BCW stating Aktiv as their client yet now also stating that the creditor is "Arcadia DEBANHAMSSTORECARD".

 

This is the first we have heard of Arcadia. The creditor we have the signed agreement with is GE Capital - so surely they should be listed as the creditor or a deed of assignment given showing someone else.

 

And now they are threatening to moving to court proceedings as we have made no attempt to resolve this matter. Despite the 8 letters to BCW and Aktiv and the fax from Aktiv that we should deal directly with them and not BCW.

 

Is this now grounds for harassment?

 

We now have contacted a solicitor to help but have heard nothing as yet - so any advice from here most welcome.

 

Thanks

 

D

[tiglet]

Have you applied for the CCJ set aside yet?

 

I would ring OFT as this debt is genuinely n dispute, they are aware of this, and yet continue to pres for payment. IMO, yes, it's harrassment.

[chimaeradave]

Have you applied for the CCJ set aside yet?

 

I would ring OFT as this debt is genuinely n dispute, they are aware of this, and yet continue to pres for payment. IMO, yes, it's harrassment.

 

we're working on getting the CCj set aside yes - one of the things we're getting the solicitor to do. Thanks for the OFT tip.

 

cheers!

[MattyH]

and so it continues...

 

We now get yet another letter from BCW stating Aktiv as their client yet now also stating that the creditor is "Arcadia DEBANHAMSSTORECARD".

 

This is the first we have heard of Arcadia. The creditor we have the signed agreement with is GE Capital - so surely they should be listed as the creditor or a deed of assignment given showing someone else.

 

GE Capital run store cards etc for Arcadia (Burtons, topshop etc)

 

My store card for burtons is for them.

 

Hope this helps

 

Matt

[chimaeradave]

GE Capital run store cards etc for Arcadia (Burtons, topshop etc)

 

My store card for burtons is for them.

 

Hope this helps

 

Matt

 

cheers - yes it is GE Capital that we have the credit agreement with - not Arcadia (even though it is Debenhams card) - it is just strange to us how after 9 letters from BCW they are changing who they claim the creditor to be.

 

Letters 1-8, Aktiv as client and creditor

Letter 9 - Aktiv as client and Arcadia as creditor

 

It is the inconsistency and total disregard to our attempts to resolve this that cast doubt on the validity of their claims.

 

cheers!