NickvsNatwest

[tonycee]

Is there anything that can go wrong at this stage, can they appeal

 

Hi Nick. Only just seen your thread.

Yes Reading County Court have been good havent they ?

Threw out all 3 of my claims as an abuse.

They came through in the end, but were bloody useless up untill then, at least i thought so.

Maybe they threw out my claims to cover up there own mistakes. Who cares.

Anyway,i have 2 CCJs through Reading, entered against Barclays, and the answer to your question is, Yes, then can appeal to have a judgement "set aside" and back to a hearing, and possibly back to a stay, IF you try to enforce payment within 28 days of judgement.

After that, they need to have a very good reason to appeal which, the lady at court told me today, would not be granted.

I am simply sitting on my judgements (entered 24 July) untill 21 Aug, when i can send in the big boys..

Have a read of this, and good luck.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/99563-got-judgment-how-get.html

[Nick1_S]

Hi,

 

Letter from Cobbetts today, NatWest have written to the court to apply for a stay. They have attached a copy of a 3 page letter sent to the court, outlying the background the OFT test case etc.

 

I geuss i now need to respond to this, by writing to the court and asking the judge to dismiss this. I hope that due to the stage the claim had got to - judgement by default, that the judge will overturn the stay.

 

The Judgement letter i recieved from the court(N225A), i filled in the reverse side of the form detailing the amount i wanted to be paid and the interest rate and sent it back. I hope this was the right thing to do, will this be seen as enforcing the claim??

 

thanks,

Nick

[Nick1_S]

Recieved a letter from the court today, i have a hearing on the 5th November for the defendants application for the judgement to be set aside. 30 mins duration in my local court - Reading. I dont know what to do now, my offer of 50% total costs runs out in a month. Does anyone know what chance i have?

[GaryH]

Can you post up the application please - any witness statement or part C statement. If they made it without you being sent a copy then ask the court for one.

[Nick1_S]

Here is the application for stay. Hope its ok in pdf format!

 

Part B.8 states that they did not recieve the order, i geuss this is possible?

 

Nick

Application for Stay.pdf

[hedgey06]

To be perfectly honest, I think they're being rather cheeky! They've never filed any kind of defence in any case to date - therefore, stating that they have a good chance of defending your claim is complete and utter tosh!

 

I'm also stunned that they didn't receive the court's order. Did they receive it or did they not actually look at it?

 

I'll flag this up for you Nick:)

[GaryH]

Here is the application for stay. Hope its ok in pdf format!

 

Part B.8 states that they did not recieve the order, i geuss this is possible?

 

Nick

Possible, but unlikely. Did you ever ring Cobbetts or otherwise communicate with them regarding the order?

 

This is a tricky one. I think you might be advised to take the offer to be honest. If they're claiming not to have received the order then the chances are they will get the set-aside. Having said that its a court which clearly recognises Natwests abuse of process, so you stand a reasonable chance I suppose if you opposed the application and made a big thing of their notorious conduct.

 

Also, at the hearing they will inevitably bring up the fact that they have already offered you the full amount in charges, meaning you'll have carried on solely for interest which may not endear you to the judge. Particularly if its contractual interest for which there is no valid contractual basis.

 

How about making a counter offer of charges + 8%?

[Nick1_S]

thanks for looking this over guys. I am really in two minds over this. I think if they would give me charges+court costs +8% i would go for it.

 

Whats the best thing to do, repsond to their offer in writing or just phone the right person up and talk it through? I know i read a thread somewhere where they just phoned up the right guy....

 

no i did not communicate with cobbets over the order. Damn it, i did everything else by the book!

[hedgey06]

I'd be inclined to do everything in writing Nick. It's much better to have proof of your negotiations with Cobbetts and the only way to obtain the proof is to hve everything in writing.

 

Do as GaryH suggests (counter offer of charges + 8% + court fees) - and send it first class recorded delivery. At the very least, don't settle for anything less than a full refund of charges + court fees.

[Nick1_S]

Well things have just got a little strange. Thanks to all who have replied so far, you have been fantastic.

 

Just to recap:

 

1) Statements recieved.

2) Prelim written - 14 days no reply

3) LBA sent. Over 14 days now and no replies.

4) N1 Filed.

5) Charges ONLY offer recieved, same day as N1 filed - Rejected

5) Defence Filed by NatWest

6) AQ Recieved

7) AQ ready to send

8) AQ sent

9) Defence struck out

10) Order served to obtain a suitable defence. No defence made. Judgement by default

10) recieved letter from NatWest stating offer still open for 2 months

11) Judgement entered

12) Cobbetts state they never the order in part 10, so applied to set aside the Judgement.

14) Hearing in october in Reading court for the stay order

 

Then, yesterday i recieved a letter saying this:

 

We refer to our telephone conversation on 05/09/07, in which you confirmed that our client has sent you a cheque in full and final settlement of your claim.

 

As a matter of courtesy, we would ask that you now write to the court and discontinue proceedings in this matter. We have attached 2 copies of the Notice of Discontinuance.

 

Well, unless i have a split personality or have been impersonated by someone, i can honestly say i have not spoken with anyone about this. What is going on, have cobbets made a mistake? I cant believe this is a tactic to force me to discontinue, as surely this practice would be highly illegal. I guess i need to write back to cobbets explaining the situation.

 

Collating all the steps has made me pose the following question. If the defence was struck out, and now Cobbets and Natwest are claiming that they never reciveived an order for a fully pleaded defence, that still means they did not at any time respond with a fully pleaded claim, order received or not. So they knew that the defence was struck out, but they still did nothing. And now this from Cobbetts about the full offer sent by cheque, it all seems a bit strange.

 

Help!!

[Nick1_S]

Guys,

 

i am thinking of sending this off to Cobbetts. I just think i need to do something to show willing:

 

 

Ref: xxxxxxxx

Client: National Westminster Bank PLC

Claim no: xxxxxx

Regarding your recent correspondence dated 05/09/07 which relates to a telephone conversation which supposedly took place on 05/09/07 between myself and Cobbett’s. I must confirm that no such telephone conversation ever took place. In fact I wrote to Natwest on the x x to state that their offer was rejected. I can only assume that there has been an administrative mistake.

My reason for rejection is due to the fact that the offer was for the bank charges only. My claim was for the return of the charges plus interest. These charges have been unlawfully taken from me over a period of 6 yrs. I have calculated the interest amounts for each and every charge in the attached schedule. This has been submitted to Natwest and to the Court to support my claim.

It is viewed that the court case is a last resort. If Natwest are willing to repay the full charges plus interest then the claim shall be discontinued. Failing this, I will appear to defend against the approval of a stay on the 5th November .

 

 

what do you think?

[BobbaFett]

Guys,

 

i am thinking of sending this off to Cobbetts. I just think i need to do something to show willing:

 

 

Ref: xxxxxxxx

 

Client: National Westminster Bank PLC

Claim no: xxxxxx

 

Regarding your recent correspondence dated 05/09/07 which relates to a telephone conversation which supposedly took place on 05/09/07 between myself and Cobbett’s. I must advise that no such telephone conversation ever took place. In fact, I wrote to NatWest on the x x to state that their offer was rejected. I can only assume that there has been an administrative mistake.

 

My reason for rejection is due to the fact that the offer was for the bank charges only. My claim was for the return of the charges plus interest. These charges have been unlawfully taken from me over a period of 6 yrs. I have calculated the interest amounts for each and every charge in the attached schedule. This has been submitted to Natwest and to the Court to support my claim.

 

It is viewed that the court case is a last resort. If Natwest are willing to repay the full charges plus interest then the claim shall be discontinued. Failing this, I will appear to defend against the approval of a stay on the 5th November .

 

 

what do you think?

 

Sounds good to me, (hello BTW. not beenon for ageeesssss). Even it it does go to court, surly the DJ would look at the fact they have not stuck to the courts deadlines, and rule in your favour? IMO, follow through....

[hedgey06]

It looks good Nick. I think at this moment in time though, I'd be inclined to offer them two options; what you've stated in your draft letter (charges+interest - although I'm assuming you'll want court fees back also?) or charges+court fees. It gives them another option to take if they're not willing to pay the interest. And with the current climate, they're paying very little to be honest.

 

But it's worth a shot to give them the above two options. x

[Nick1_S]

Hi all,

 

just got back from Reading court for a judgement set aside hearing, here is a brief outline fo what happened:

 

The Judge starts off saying he was a bit confused as to what the claimant wants from the hearing, as it appears i am opposing a 'stay', when in fact the defendant is applying for a set aside. I kind of thought they were the same thing, so its bad prep on my part. I just said yes, i am opposing the judgement set aside and he seemed to be happy and moved on.

He preceeded to pick apart Natwest's defence and basically said he thought such a large organisation could do better! He went through a bit of the history and basically got an overview of the case. The bottom line is that Natwest are defending against a penalty, but then go onto say that they only charge a 'service', so in fact their defence's contradictory. The judge gave Natwest 14 more days (19th November) to come up with a proper defence. I raised my own issues with this, saying about the bad conduct throughout the case and asked the Judge how many chances can a defendant be given? He said he was prepared to give them one more chance. If they fail then i get the money plus all costs, if not then it is very likely they will get a set aside of the judgement. He said if this happens its up to me to prove my case is outside of the OFT test cases scope. I raised again how i believe that as my case was started last year when penalties were still penalties and had not been redrafted as services like they have this year, then i have a valid case. But he would not budge so Natwest get 14 days to rewrite their defence. I am a bit annoyed at this, but overall the Judge was very sympathetic to cases like ours and he gave the bank a bit of a hammering at times!

 

His main point is that he does not want me to get into a worse financial position with some one as big as Natwest who have strong litigation. Not sure what he meant by this, surely if i lose i just lose my costs? What if i get my money but the banks win the OFT case?

 

It was all very informal and good natured discussion on all sides. It really was not worth the anxiety i was feeling before i went in, its really nothing to worry about.

 

Can anyone give me any feedback on this?

 

cheers,

Nick

[HONESTKNOB]

Sounds like you'll be getting your money in 14 days mate. Natwest only have 1 standard defence as 100's of people have received. Chin up.

[hedgey06]

I'm sorry to hear about what happened Nick, given how 'great' Cobbetts' defences are, I can almost imagine what they put forward on your claim. However, I'm not sure what they can possibly come up with in the next 14 days - they've never truly defended any claim up to now.

 

On the subject of costs, there's a very slight possibility that if you lose you'd be liable for their costs in addition to your own. But I must stress that this is very slight - I read something recently (I'll try to find it and post back with it) that stated it would be an unrealistic situation for this to happen.

 

Did the original defence you received contain anything out of the ordinary that you haven't seen on other threads?

[Nick1_S]

Hedgey,

 

no the defence was standard as i can make out. I recieved this from the court the other day (attached).

I am really not sure what this means.

 

1) Why is Norwhich Union being quoted?

 

2) A solicito turned up for tha bank, is that not the defendant.

 

Have they sent me the wrong case breakdown?

 

Nick

[hedgey06]

Sorry Nick, I can't read it. Any chance of re-sizing?

[Nick1_S]

sorry!

 

here we go

courtdoc.doc

[hedgey06]

Nick, I've just had a look at the attachment and I'd advise you to take it into the court offices and ask for an explanation. Looks to me as though they've sent you somebody else's directions - therefore, they may have sent your directions to the other person (if you get my drift!)

 

Take it into the court asap and hopefully they'll be able to give you the correct directions. Post back once you have further details from them though - I'm intrigued to see what they say! x

[Nick1_S]

Totally fed up now.

 

I phoned the court and they informed me that they were the wrong directions and to send them back, which i did. After about a month (mid december) i phoned the court again as I had heard nothing from them. They said that there was something being sent out.

 

So i recieve a letter saying that Natwest have been granted a hearing for an objection in Feb. I mean, this is just crazy. They have still, until this day, not submitted a valid defence and now they get a hearing for an objection? How can you object if you cannot defend?

 

So i have outlined my views in a polite letter to the judge.

 

They have had their 1st defence struck out, did not respond to it being struck out, were given 14 days from the hearing we had (wrong directions sent and never recieved right ones) and have still not, after months, submitted a defence. How long can this go on??

 

i am baffled as to what to do. Seems they can just do what they like : (