bailiffs and sheriffs

[paulson1985]

Morning everybody

[paulson1985]

Well you certainly found out a lot of information last night.

 

I intend to spend today trying to find out what I can about harrassment laws.

 

 

It looks like Jacobs has been douing this for quite a while and getting away with it.

 

 

If my hunch is right the bailliff who came yesterday is not even a certified bailliff if that is the case Jacobs and the council are in hot water.

 

I agree with what Seylectric says we need to get this right and get our facts together one slip up can spoil it for everybody.

 

They have got away with it for too long and need to be stopped.

 

Also the signiture on the bottom of the letter I got is very iffy, I wonder why

[chrismc]

If you look carefully at the letter, the signiture is obviously pasted and not an originall signiture I wonder why? Anybody any ideas.

 

PC

 

I would say because it is not him!! I think you will find that Daniel Broughton may be an officer/agent with Jacobs that does hold some sort of legal or qualification, weheas the thug that came to see you may not and has to sign off as Daniel Broughton to be able to at least threaten.

 

I am not 100% sure about this but it would explain why a signature has been copied/pasted on to a pre-printed form. If you could prove this there may be a way which you could get back at them over this point alone. eg forging signatures and qualifications with the intent on extracting money/fees etc from a third party, may even be seen as fraud??

 

Needs more research as Seylectric says, also what I am doing at the moment with my case against Philips, there are some very grey areas in how these people work but there are more and more things coming to light every week with which we can fight them with.

 

Chris

[chrismc]

PC

 

the other thing they have done wrong here, is they have not provided you with a breakdown of their fees with this request which they are supposed to do. They just ask for a lump sum, nothing else.

 

Just a bit more ammo for you.

 

Chris

[chrismc]

Now we have so called Daniels mobile number should we all start making prank or threatening calls to him, wind him up something rotten. :D Give him some of his own medicine. :D

[mazoo]

Just had a visit from a firm called Drakes at 6.50 this morning re parking fine.

Told him to do one basically and he claimed he had right to force entry. I thought this was not the case.

National Debtline site seems to indicate for unpaid fine it is with effect from July 2005.

Any advice please

[paulson1985]

Hi mazoo,

 

 

I am trying to find out for you just hang on in there Im sure somebody will come up with something soon.

 

 

Chris once again thanks for your information good stuff.

[paulson1985]

Right Mazoo,

 

I am almost certain he cannott force his way in only HM taxes are allowed to do this.

 

Secondly I am sure he called in what is called unsocial hours.

 

If I were you I would refuse to let him in do not answer the door to him if he comes back I will try and find out more.

 

The important thing is do not panic, I know its hard not to but hang on in there I will do my best to find out what I can for you.

[MARTIN3030]

Now we have so called Daniels mobile number should we all start making prank or threatening calls to him, wind him up something rotten. :D Give him some of his own medicine. :D

 

Just what I was thinking myself..........at 2.00am this morning

 

 

[paulson1985]

Mazoo,

 

I am almost certain now they have no right to get in your home unless you invite them in So dont and dont sighn anything at all

Will get back as soon as I can.

 

 

Martin and Chris Shame on you for hassling a poor guy trying to earn a crust.

 

Quite a nice crust judging by the car he drives.

[MARTIN3030]

As far as I can see looking at some info the only baliffs that can force entry is those acting for customs and ex and inland revenue...and even then they have to get a warrant.

 

Its more likely that you would be arrested by a court appointed fines officer for non payment......its pretty common for them to send out notices that faliure to pay would lead to this.

You would have to surrender to the warrants office at the police station or court and be bailed to a future date to allow for a hearing.

Thats if a warrant has been issued.

Where I live that seems to be the process for non payment of fines.

The baliffs at our local court office do have powers of arrest,but as far as I know they cant break in to your house.

[paulson1985]

Just what I have found out Martin so Mazoo dont worry he is bluffing you.

 

I can only repeat myself again.

 

 

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LET HIM IN YOUR HOME.

 

DO NOT SIGHN ANYTHING

 

IF YOU HAVE A CAR MOVE IT FOR A FEW DAYS

 

I know it is hard but keep your cool (very hard at the moment)

 

I am sure you will be OK Please come back and let us know how you get on.

[paulson1985]

I have been trying to find out if this guy is a genuine bailliff.

 

I have been on to the local court they only keep records of there own bailiffs, the same with Manchester.

 

Has anybody any ideas were I try next.

 

Who gives them there certificates?

[MARTIN3030]

ESA | Member Directory

 

 

Looks like this is their adffiliated trade body.

[MARTIN3030]

Yep an interesting link if you click on members you can see Jacobs is on there.

 

Now usually these bodies exist not only to protect the interests of its members,but also to oversee high standards and codes of practice are encouraged.

 

Worth reading to see if they have a mission statement etc as it looks like one place to start and make a few complaints.

 

After all whats the point of being accredited to a body that has no standards in place or a means to answer unprof conduct ?????

 

 

[paulson1985]

Alredy tried that Martin,

 

They can only tell you if the bailliff is a member of the association ,They reccommended that I try the local county courts but they could not help either.

[MARTIN3030]

but whats this all about then .............

 

 

 

Although the Association is not primarily a forum for resolving disputes it is concerned about the reputation of its members and the industry in general and investigates complaints under its disciplinary procedure

 

How to Complain

Complaints should be made on the Association’s complaint form which can be obtained from The Executive Director, Enforcement Services Association, Park House, 10 Park Street, Bristol BS1 5HX Tel: 0117 907 4771. Or you may download a copy in PDF on link below:

[MARTIN3030]

Chris.............just look at their codes of practice

 

They lay down very clear points on which its members should be seen to observe.

 

 

Including giving an itemised list of charges of a visit.....something I know you are always mentioning as it rarely gets done.

 

I think this organisation is deffo worth firing off some complaints to.

 

Reading more intently with great interest.

 

These are codes of practice that THEY THEMSELVES have laid down.

[MARTIN3030]

Right then heres another

 

Members will co-operate with and submit to the Association’s disciplinary procedure (including recourse to independent adjudication). Members will, on request, provide any person or organisation with the name, address and the telephone number of the Association in order to make a complaint or for any other reason.

 

 

So when Mr.Baldy comes round next time ask him for the name address and telephone number of the baliffs assoc that Jacobs are accredited to.

 

It is one of their codes of practice that they follow your request.

[MARTIN3030]

Different bailiffs have differing powers to collect debts. However, there are certain rules that apply to all bailiffs. Unless stated otherwise, the information in this leaflet applies to any bailiff.

Can anyone be a bailiff?

Yes, providing they have legal authority to carry out their actions. Some creditors prefer to use certificated bailiffs to collect their debts. ''Certificated'' means that the firm of bailiffs has provided references to the county court and the bailiffs they employ are considered to be 'fit and proper' persons. Bailiffs collecting rent arrears and road traffic penalties must be certificated. It is worth remembering that both men and women can be bailiffs!

back top

What 'legal authority' must a bailiff have?

A bailiff must be legally authorised to collect the debt on behalf of the creditor. The authority is normally known as a 'warrant', or 'warrant of execution' if the bailiff is recovering money owed under a county court judgment.

Bailiffs used by the magistrates court to collect unpaid council tax, outstanding fines, compensation or unpaid maintenance will be acting on either a 'distress warrant' or a 'liability order' issued by the magistrates court.

 

 

 

In that case it dont nec mean that they have to have any special credentials or prof qualifications.

 

The baliff firm itself is certificated by the court as opposed to the individual baliff.

[chrismc]

Chris.............just look at their codes of practice

 

They lay down very clear points on which its members should be seen to observe.

 

 

Including giving an itemised list of charges of a visit.....something I know you are always mentioning as it rarely gets done.

 

I think this organisation is deffo worth firing off some complaints to.

 

Reading more intently with great interest.

 

These are codes of practice that THEY THEMSELVES have laid down.

For anyone who is interested:

BAILIFFS PROCEDURES

 

If the bailiffs are distraining for poll tax or council tax, there are certain procedures that they have to follow. They must have with them:-

• written authorisation from the council for them to call. They should show you this if you ask.

They must leave you a copy of:-

• the law setting out their powers and what they can and cannot do. These are the "Enforcement Regulations".
  
• the charges the bailiffs are allowed to make for each visit. You should check they have not added too much on to your debt.
  
• any agreement you have actually signed. This will be called a "Walking Possession" agreement and includes a list of goods the bailiffs have warned you they may take

Also to make a complaint:-

 

HOW DO I COMPLAIN?

 

There are national standards for enforcement agents. These good practice guidelines set out general rules for how bailiffs should behave and what procedures they should follow. You can mention these standards in your complaint but the standards are not enforceable by law. Details of the standards they may be found on the Department for Constitutional Affairs website Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

Phone them for advice.

 

GET ADVICE FIRST, bailiffs law is very complex, and even if you think that what they have done is unfair, they may still be acting within the law.

• From October 1998 bailiffs have to have a certificate granted by a court to collect council tax. A complaint from you can help get the certificate withdrawn. Ask your local county court if they have a form for making a complaint. If not, write in to the court manager with details. The court will hold a hearing and can cancel the bailiff's certificate, order compensation and order return of the goods. A bailiff can be fined for collecting without a certificate. However, even if the bailiff's certificate is cancelled, it continues to have effect for any previous possession agreement unless the judge orders otherwise.
  
• You can complain to the magistrates' court, and there have been cases recently where the debt has, in effect, been written off when it has been proved that bailiffs have acted illegally. This is done by making a complaint and asking for a hearing. The court can order return of the goods or compensation.
  
• You should complain to the council as the bailiffs are acting as their agent. They can ask the bailiffs to look at your complaint and change their procedures. If the council won't help you could talk to your local councillor who may be prepared to take your complaint up with the council.
  
• You can ask the Local Government Ombudsman to look at your complaint if the council refuse to help you. The contact details are in "Useful Addresses".

You will notice if you read the letters I am sending to Philips that I state in all my letters at the bottom:-

 

and without further notice and in addition make a full complaint to the Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies and/or the Certificated Bailiffs Association and also set out my complaint on the bailiff complaints form which will be presented to the relevant County Court to which supplied your Bailiffs Certificate.

That is how you have to go about issuing a complaint. I think the only way is to complain to the courts, I doubt the ACEA will do anything afterall I bet they are paid by fees and subscriptions from the Bailiffs themselves.

 

Chris

[chrismc]

What 'legal authority' must a bailiff have?

A bailiff must be legally authorised to collect the debt on behalf of the creditor. The authority is normally known as a 'warrant', or 'warrant of execution' if the bailiff is recovering money owed under a county court judgment.

Bailiffs used by the magistrates court to collect unpaid council tax, outstanding fines, compensation or unpaid maintenance will be acting on either a 'distress warrant' or a 'liability order' issued by the magistrates court.

 

 

 

In that case it dont nec mean that they have to have any special credentials or prof qualifications.

 

The baliff firm itself is certificated by the court as opposed to the individual baliff.

 

So as they are not heavily regulated the best course of action for a complaint is to the authority that awards them (the Company) their certificate. They are more likely to take notice of someone who could withdraw their certificate and therefore cut off their livelyhood than Joe Bloggs or even the Local Councils for that matter.

 

See my post above for instructions on how to do this and why I always state in my letters to them:-

 

"and without further notice and in addition make a full complaint to the Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies and/or the Certificated Bailiffs Association and also set out my complaint on the bailiff complaints form which will be presented to the relevant County Court to which supplied your Bailiffs Certificate."

 

Chris

[paulson1985]

If you look in the code of practice laid out by them in says,

 

No officer or firm shall make false representation of actions they are able to take.

That is an offence on its own so I have them on that point alone Goody Goody.

 

 

Aso something about only private members are allowed to use those letters after there names, that is something else.

[chrismc]

If you look in the code of practice laid out by them in says,

 

No officer or firm shall make false representation of actions they are able to take.

That is an offence on its own so I have them on that point alone Goody Goody.

 

 

Aso something about only private members are allowed to use those letters after there names, that is something else.

PC

 

It is all well and good them having a CoP but who are this organisation, who funds them etc etc, if they are funded by Subscription charges or members fees then they won't want to upset the people who are paying their wages will they, that is why a lot of these so called Enforcement Associations are a waste of time to us.

 

I think the only real way is to go to the Authority that can revoke their licences The Courts.

[paulson1985]

I think you are right about the Association perhaps complaining to the courts is the right process. Its most likely that they are another banking omnisbusman.

 

No sighn of him yet today.