bailiffs and sheriffs

[seylectric]

Yes it does constitute harrassment.

 

I'll go and dig out some of the dozens of letters I have had from Phoenix and you will see why i am going to have a pop at them.

 

Incidentally it's all in contravention of the Human Rights Act, right from the very beginning. Article 1:

 

Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

 

The proceeding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of a State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure the payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties.

 

Article 1 of the First Protocol protects people’s rights to their property. Property has a very wide meaning. It can include shares, a pension and contributory welfare benefits (social security benefits that are dependant on the claimant having made national insurance contributions).

 

The article provides that the Government or a public authority cannot deprive a person of their property unless the law allows this and it is necessary in the public interest to do so. The Government must strike a fair balance between the interests of the property owner and the general interest of society as a whole. If your property is taken away you should be entitled to compensation.

 

Article 1 of the First Protocol also provides that the Government or a public authority cannot put restrictions on what someone does with their property or interfere with a person’s property unless there is a law that allows them to do this and there is a good reason for doing so.

 

The article does not affect the right of the Government or a public authority to enforce taxes or fines.

 

 

In particular: The article provides that the Government or a public authority cannot deprive a person of their property unless the law allows this and it is necessary in the public interest to do so. The Government must strike a fair balance between the interests of the property owner and the general interest of society as a whole. If your property is taken away you should be entitled to compensation.

 

In otherwords they can't take your stuff, they would have to prove to a court that it's in the interests of society etc. to do so, and they would have to do this BEFORE they take anything oterewise you're entitled to compensation, it's all there in black and white so the fact that they are THREATENING to take your stuff when they have no legal right to do so MUST be illegal.

 

Your Rights: The Human Rights Act: Convention Rights: Article 1 First Protocol Property

[paulson1985]

Hi

 

Yes I do have it in writing Elsinore he gave me the letter at the door this morning unfortunatly I dont know how to post it hear but it says and I quote.

 

 

If I am unable to obtain sufficent goods or payment I will commence proceedings for the issue of a summons to commit you to prison for non-payment.

 

 

Also Selylectric it says If you do not contact me I will re-attend your property with a vehicle porter and locksmith (if appropiate following valid seizure) with a view to gaining entry and removing goods/assets to clear this debt.

 

Now the bit in brackets is a wonderfull hindsight into what they cannot do the if appropiate bit following valid seizure in other words I think If they have not been in and levied on anything. They are stuck right?

[elsinore]

Keep that letter under lock and key, Paul, it's very valuable.

 

If you don't let 'em in (and you won't) then yes, they're stuck:D

 

Elsinore

[seylectric]

They're stuck.

 

My letter said, in huge letters in a box: "COMMITTAL RECOMMENDATION

NOTICE".

 

It then read, "Despite all previous requests and communications, you have either failed to make full payment or enter in an arrangement (etc.)

 

We do not believe that further calls will establish any creditable agreement and are therefore left with no alternative but to endorse our instruction that you have wilfully refused to pay the outstanding balance. The local authority will then have the option of applying to the Magistrates court to seek your commitment* to prison."

 

 

*(I think that's supposed to read "committal").

 

This is technically correct, however it is OF NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER OF THE BAILIFFS HOW THE COUNCIL CHOOSE TO PROCEED AFTER THERE HIRED MERCENARIES HAVE FAILED TO COLLECT ANY MONEY FROM YOU. HOW DARE THEY RECOMMEND ANYTHING! THEY ARE DEBT COLLECTORS, NOT LAWYERS!!!

 

Therefore the only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that they are again illegally intimidating you, simple as. They are also assuming that you are wilfully refusing to pay, which doesn't prove a thing.

 

 

I have also had Default Notices, which differ in wording, but one in particular said "You have failed to make adequate arrangements to pay (blah blah...)

 

Under the circumstances you have left us with little alternative but to instruct our bailiff to remove your goods and chattels.

 

Although not neccessary, we would prefer that you are present when the bailiff attends in order that you may sign for the goods removed. We would therefore be obliged if you would contact our office immediately so that we can give you a date for the visit"

 

Get ta fk. This clearly indicates that the bailiffs are able to attend your premises and take your goods if you are not there, implying that they may break in. Not in my lifetime.

 

Again, illegal intimidation for which I want compensation for the stress and worry this has caused, not to mention for my time (I'm self-employed and in the early days I, like most people, was intimidated into believing they could actually do this and stayed off work all day only for them not to turn up).

 

Payback time as far as I'm concerned, at best I want compensation, at worst I want to see them prosecuted for their tactics. I'm working on it bit by bit, gathering info etc. and I will have my day - or at least make THEM squirm a bit!

[paulson1985]

Yes Esinore the letter is safe.

 

 

Seylectric I have read your post regarding human rights over and over again but I am stuck.

 

 

The bit that says they are entitled to remove your goods for taxes etc.

 

Unfortunatly there is a law that says this I am sure.

[chrismc]

Good info Seylectric, my battle continues with Philips, they have at least agreed to repay me £160.00 now that must be a first for a bailiff to pay something back, but this is not the end of it I am going after the lot soon!!!

 

Chris

[MARTIN3030]

I have been reading somewhere today of a guy who got a letter from a baliff threatening police assistance.

The guy took it to his local police station and they told him not to worry and are launching an investigation.

 

The laws for recovering unpaid fines from Magistrates courts I think DO allow for other methods of recovery it was changed not long ago however council tax does not come into this ruling.

[paulson1985]

Yes seylectric it looks like they are stuck.

 

They made threats they said in there letter they can committ me to prison not as in yours they said they could reccomend it.

 

I feel a nasty letter gouing out to them in the morning or should I wait and see what developes next.

 

He never came back by the way maybe he will show his rather red bald head in the morning.

[paulson1985]

I think I can put the letter on here just hang on a bit I am douing my best.

 

 

Chris good luck with your Phillips lot I am sure you wil;l get most of your money back.

 

 

Martin I have heard of them douing this before threatning people with the police in order to gain entry.

[chrismc]

PC

 

Just remember the only weapon they have is threats and intimidation, most people give in to it, so it comes as second nature to them, but if they have someone that stands up to them they are snookered as long as you don't weaken.

 

Goodluck.....I am sure they will have no alternative but to give it back to the council soon.

[paulson1985]

this is letter from the bailiffs today i hosted it on another site, click the link to see it http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8448/scanpy4.jpg

[MARTIN3030]

Daniel has got letters after his name..........

 

The letter states removal stroke commit so one or either ?

 

The body of the letter tho says it.

 

looks like this is a letter that is used for court fines etc where there is provision for this action.

 

My feeling is that you should plan a strategy here and not give him insight into how you will proceed for the moment.

 

They failed to carry out their threat today for one reason only..........because they know they cant.

 

He has left you with something that in turn will come back to bite his a***e

 

You must be clear on the rules they have broken and put a case together.

For the benefit of others who dont have access to sites like this one......they must be stopped

[paulson1985]

If you look carefully at the letter, the signiture is obviously pasted and not an originall signiture I wonder why? Anybody any ideas.

[MARTIN3030]

Well its pretty much on the theme that they appear to adopt in all their dealings

 

 

dodgy !!

 

 

[paulson1985]

Yes I thought so to they are trying to cover there tracks and there dodgy dealings.

 

Anyway its bedtime now to get a good nights sleep and to plan my next move.

 

Goodnight all

[MARTIN3030]

Goodnight.......and we know its still hot but for gods sake keep the windows closed if you are not sure of waking up early !!

 

Put the fans on if need be............

 

 

[seylectric]

Yes Esinore the letter is safe.

 

 

Seylectric I have read your post regarding human rights over and over again but I am stuck.

 

 

The bit that says they are entitled to remove your goods for taxes etc.

 

Unfortunatly there is a law that says this I am sure.

 

The point is Paul is that the LAW says they are not entitled to come into your house if it is locked as long as you haven't signed a "walking possession agreement", so no, if you don't let them in they are NOT entitled to remove your goods.

 

Up until now only the Inland Revenue could basically do what they liked (they CAN break in and are above most of these laws but even this is now beginning to come under scrutiny and not before time).

 

What they are legally entitled to is one thing, what they are legally allowed to do to get their entitlement from you is an ENTIRELY different matter, never forget that. It's worth remembering that this is where this site comes into it's own, whether it's bank charges, parking tickets, council tax you name it, we are all learning to fight back by using the laws against them rather than in the past where the only weapon we had was to refuse to pay.

 

Don't stop now!

[elsinore]

Well I'm still up!

 

PC, your Mr Broughton claims to be a member of the Enforcement Services Association. Jacobs appears as a corporate member but his name does not appear as a private or student member (no idea what the (E) stands for!).

 

Dodgy? Definitely!

 

Elsinore

[seylectric]

Well I'm still up!

 

PC, your Mr Broughton claims to be a member of the Enforcement Services Association. Jacobs appears as a corporate member but his name does not appear as a private or student member (no idea what the (E) stands for!).

 

Dodgy? Definitely!

 

Elsinore

 

Definately. Ask him what his rank is - he's obliged to tell you by law - then ask him who his superior is and let him wriggle. Insist on full contact details in each case. He might ask you why you want the information, tel him it's non of his business.

[MARTIN3030]

Managed to find this one

 

Jacobs Bailiffs, based in the Wirral, are one

of two Bailiffs firms currently used by

Waltham Forest Council to collect the

Council tax on their behalf. Bailiffs firms

have always been well known for their

thuggish and intimidating behaviour, stick-

ing the boot into the weakest and poor-

est sections of society. But Jacobs stand

head and shoulders above anything we've

previously come across.

 

Council Tax

 

Many of this company's targets are peo-

ple whose Council Tax benefit has not

come through, often because its been

messed up by the Council. So a lot of the

time people are being pursued and threat-

ened because the Council have cocked

up in the first place. And the cost added

on for recovery to the alleged debtor is

likely to be far higher than the original

amount people owed. Our caring Council

boast about pursuing non payers of Coun-

cil tax and evicting those who don't pay

their rent.

But again, rent payment arrears are often

the fault of the Council, whose Housing

Benefit system is in a complete mess.

The effects of the Council's action is bru-

tal and punishing against the very poor

and desperate, who bullied, threatened

and thrown into desperation by eviction

or imprisonment.

 

Complaints

 

These are just some of the complaints The

Underdog has recently heard about

Jacobs :

* Threatening to break into houses to remove goods,

* Threatening to take away essential items such as fridges or beds when they are only allowed to take away "nonessential" items.

* Adding hundreds of pounds in costs on to people's fines.

* Implying in writing that they have the powers to put people

in prison "for up to 90 days"

 

Resistance

 

What can you do if you're faced with bail-

iffs? Finding out your rights and sticking

up for yourself is vital (see "The Underdog

Survival Guide" ). Exposing and hassling

councillors with reports of how their

council is sanctioning the use of these

thugs, doesn't do any harm also.

But the only way we are ultimately going

to defend ourselves is by getting together

with our friends and neighbours and mak-

ing sure bailiffs don't set foot in our neigh-

bourhoods because they know people will

come out and oppose them.

 

Direct Action

 

 

 

 

Sounds like its the same people

 

[seylectric]

this is letter from the bailiffs today i hosted it on another site, click the link to see it http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8448/scanpy4.jpg

 

Only just read it properly to be honest. Good grief man, they're directly threatening you with imprisonment!

 

The letter clearly states "If I am unable to gain sufficient goods or payment I will commence proceedings for the issue of a summons to commit you to prison for non-payment".

 

That's shocking.

 

1. They are not in a position to instigate proceedings. You owe the money to the council, not the bailiffs!

 

2. There's no such thing as a "summons to commit you to prison". They are basically saying that they have the CHOICE of sending you to prison, like it's their decision. It isn't - it's for the judge to decide. They are implying they have the power to send you to prison. They haven't.

 

3. You can't be sent to prison for non-payment anyway, I REPEAT you can only be sent to prison for REFUSING to pay.

 

So not only are they wrongly implying they can get you sent to prison, they are compounding it by saying you can get sent to prison for something that is not actually an imprisonable offence! It's not even any of their business, again it's for the council to decide how to proceed.

 

I would hold back on sending any letters and seriously consider taking some legal advice. This sort of harrassment should see them struck off and a nice lump sum in compo for you if you play it right. That's definately my aim, I'm not putting up with this and they need to be brought to book, but I refuse to write to them and pay any payments i can make by bank transfer direct to the council. They can hardly refuse it and tell you to pay via the bailiffs when you pay it directly into their bank, too late, it's paid.

 

I'm going to carry on preparing for the next few weeks then hit them with a major claim for this sort of illegal intimidation. I've got used to it, it's still not nice but people's lives are being destroyed by issues such as this and it's not right. I'm not scared anymore though and I'm fighting back.

[seylectric]

interesting post Martin, but the only why to fight them is by using the law and making sure that their illegal threatening activities will result in a lawsuit. Don't get angry, get even.

[elsinore]

I wouldn't like to be in Broughton's boots with paulclarkson1985, MARTIN3030 and seylectric lined up against me!

[MARTIN3030]

interesting post Martin, but the only why to fight them is by using the law and making sure that their illegal threatening activities will result in a lawsuit. Don't get angry, get even.

 

This was taken from a post made back in 2003.

The particular group look very much like a capitalist rebellion group,and as you know such people tend not to go the legal way out of their own indifferences.

 

The point I wanted to show was that these people have been doing this for a long time,have not (or by the looks of it) been stopped.

 

I cannot believe for 1 minute that they have never been reported....never been told off...or gone un noticed by the people who are in the position to sort them out with the weight of the law.

 

In fact if they have been showing this contempt since 2003 and beyond and are still at it then it reinforces what we have been saying here now for a few weeks.

Time to call last orders on these thugs........and unlike their orders, of a type that will see a cessation of their unlawful trading practices.

 

[seylectric]

Agreed, and the difference now is that we are far more educated in how to fight back. Even better, they themselves have become so arrogant and with some success that they probably are blissfully aware that their tactics are breaking every rule in the book!

 

Well they are about to find out, I intend to have a go but I need to take time to get my facts right and not make a fool of myself because I'm fighting on my own with no money for a legal team to back me up so it's a risky business, I daren't lose not that I will. Just need to get it right. Watch this space but don't hold your breath. This may take a while yet, there's a lot of information to collate.