Docdros v Abbey **** WON !!!!!! ****

[Docdros]

Hi all, First of all may I say thanks to all who have posted. The info here has prompted me to begin my own action against Abbey to recover some £978 plus £135 in overdraft interest incurred. I am just about ready to send off my preliminary approach letter, but have a few questions beforehand.

 

1) The amount quoted has incurred since Nov 02. I would prefer not to wait for a DPA letter to recover further statements as I believe we did not incur nearly so many charges before this. However, I did have it in mind to make a claim for this earlier period should this action be successful. Is this possible or is this a "oneshot" situation?

 

2) The account was in joint names until Jan 06, when I took my name off the account. I am therefore sending correspondence in my Wife's name. Is this the correct approach? (She now also has a new account in readiness for nasty tactics).

 

3) Does anyone have experience sending the relevant correspondence by email or would posted letters be a safer bet? If I use email, should I follow up with a posted letter?

 

4) I am intending to post to this address:

 

Complaints Department

Abbey

PO Box 5129

Milton Keynes

MK9 2YN

Is this Ok or does anyone have a better suggestion?

 

Thanks in advance for any help. I will hold off sending the letter until early next week ( Mon/Tues 15/16 May)

 

Docdros

[Spiceskull]

Hi,

 

The DPA request is intended to get much more than just your transaction details. Notes and evidence of manual intervention are equally important, and it is a good idea to be seen to be requesting this information. Having it to hand also prevents any nasty surprises.

 

This is not a one shot opportunity - you are able to bring another claim if information leads you to believe that you account has been abused by the banks previously. My own personal suggestion would be to go down the DPA route, and get information for the full six years. This will add 40 days to your timetable, but it will demonstrate to the bank that you are aware that you can claim for the full six years.

 

Regarding account names, I'm not quite sure, but it is the account you are dealing with rather than a named individual. If the account was in joint names I can't understand why you don't use your own name...but again, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

There is no harm in emailing the bank with queries and the like, but claim correspondence should always be sent by post, recorded delivery. That way you have a hard copy as proof should it be needed, and you are also able to track it and verify delivery.

 

Regarding addresses, it is best to send it to your local branch, or your holding branch if this is not local. Banks have internal processes that ensure delivery to the relevant department.

 

Good luck.

[Docdros]

Thanks for the prompt and thorough reply Spiceskull. I'll go the DPA route as you suggest.

 

As to account name etc. I was just wary of being fobbed off by Abbey telling me that only my wife could deal with the matter, or somesuch nonsense, since the account is still extant and has reverted to a single account in her name only. If you think its not a problem then I am happy to deal with it in my name.

 

Point taken about hard copies. Will do so.

 

Thanks again for your advice. I intend to keep this thread posted as to my progress.

 

Docdros

 

UPDATE: posted off DPA letter by recorded delivery this afternoon! The die is cast!

[Docdros]

So, I received 13 statements today, covering Mar 2005 to Apr 2006 (all of which I already have!), 11 days after receipt. All were individually wrapped as others have experienced and each had some annoying promotionals included! The cheque I sent has finally shown up on online banking and clears on Monday 30th. I am contemplating emailing Abbey to "nudge things along" i.e. remind them the clock is ticking and ask for further statements. Any thoughts? I am also unsure as to why not go ahead with the charges already calculated by sending the prelim letter. I have sternly forewarned the missus (who is too friendly and chatty by half!) NOT to talk to any naughty Abbey agents who might call, but to refer them to me and we both have parachute accounts opened and running so I am frankly champing at the bit to take on this fight! (Sorry about mixed metaphors). Any comments welcome

 

Docdros

[Docdros]

Got our DPA fob off letter today. It seems to be subtly different from what others have received (with a couple of cunning changes), so I will repeat it in full below:

 

"Dears Mrs XXXXX,

Thank you for your letter dated 12th May 2006, which we received on 16th May 2006, requesting information on your bank account. I also acknowledge receipt of your £10 fee.

I would like to advise you that under a Data Protection Act Request, you will only receive the transactions that are currently held on our systems. Any earlier transactions have been archived onto microfiche, which is not covered by the Data Protection Act. These archived transactions will therefore not be supplied to you under a Data Protection Act request.

 

We can however supply details of the transactions held on the microfiche on payment of an administration fee. The fee is as follows: -

£5.00 for 1 mopnthly statement that has been archived

£10.00 for multiple monthly statements that have been archived.

 

It is clear from your request that you require the transactional information that is held on the microfiche records. In order to avoid any additional delays, we will therefore use the £10 that you have sent with your Data Protection Act request, as payment for the microfiche records that you need. You will receive these shortly. If you don not want us to do this please call us on the above number.

 

Ant transactional information that is held on our systems and has not been archived, will be forwarded to you free of charge, under separate cover."

 

the letter is "signed" by P.Speed, Business manager, Banking services.

 

Now it seems to me that I am being gently deflected away from the nasty DPA route to a BETTER way in which Abbey will fulfill my request "shortly". I also find it a fortuitous coincidence that my £10 cheque would cover their admin costs perfectly under this new way!

 

I am slightly miffed that they seem to be telling me what I wanted to spend that £10 cheque on, but I guess the banks know best eh?

 

Edit: After advice from Spiceskull, I'm gonna send the basic template letter, I was overly complicating things. I have, however included my intended addition and would welcome comments as although I agree with Spiceskull re: keeping things simple, it did seem this paragraph would allow people some hope of actually getting transaction info, without being deflected from a DPA request:

 

[end of Para 4 from standard letter]......I expect this to be provided within the time period for DPA compliance.

 

I do not appreciate your attempts to deflect me from my Data Protection Act request and your patronising assumptions as to how I wish to spend my money. The £10 cheque included in my original letter was for a Data Protection Act request, and any attempt to use it for other purposes will not be looked upon favourably. However, since you so kindly offer to send me the information I require via an alternative route, I am quite happy to send you another £10 cheque on the strict understanding that you can fulfil this offer within 21 days (a reasonable interpretation of the word “shortly” as used in your letter). If you cannot offer me this guarantee, I ask that you return the cheque. In any event, my Data Protection Act request stands.

 

 

Docdros.

[BankFodder]

I should warn them that you now consider that you are being charged £20 for a full SAR and that as this clearly exceeds what they are entitled to charge you by law, they should note that you will be sending a complaint to the Information Commissioner. (Do send this complaint)

 

Secondly when you make your claim, add the money that you have paid for the disclosure and make sure that you have itemised it as:

£10 SAR fee - obliged by them to incur this expense because of their implementaion of unenforceable charges.

£10 fee - unlawfully required in excess of the maximum SAR fee curretly permitted by law - you will have to quote the relevant chap/verse.

 

If you have to issue a claim in the court, at least you get it all down formally.

[lisamellor]

hi docdros,

 

i have also received the same letter from pam speed.

 

i am right were you are so i will be following you with keen interest.

 

i just posted my 2nd letter on wednesday ( they hadnt sent me the statements within the 40 day time slot. so they now have until friday ( next week ) to send them. i have received one years worth of statements but thats all. i have not sent them anymore as i dont want to complicate things and steer off the instructions i have been given from other members on the site.

 

if i do not receive the statements by fri next week i will be taking the next step. (ive got to do it one step at t time or i'll only confuse myself)

im hoping that i'll be one of the lucky ones who get their money refunded in full before stepping into a court, but knowing me i wont !!

 

good luckx

[Docdros]

Well, today I received a lovely letter from Ms speed re: microfiched " movements". Oddly she thanks me (or rather my wife) for a letter dated 8th May ,received on 10th May, when I didn't send anything on that date! Anyway:

 

"Dear Mrs. XXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated 8th May 2006 which we received on 10th May 2006 requesting information on your bank account.

 

We have used the £10.00 fee that you have sent with your Data Protection Act Request as a payment for the microfiche records that you need.

 

Please find enclosed the requested movements.

If you have any questions please call us on the above number.

 

Yours Sincerely

P.Speed"

 

Now, this letter is dated 19th June and I sent my template reply to the microfiche letter on the 2nd May. I also sent a prelim letter on the 15th June. Furthermore, the printouts enclosed date from Nov 99 to mar 00, when i asked for data from Jan 00, so not quite the data I need, even if I agreed to the £10 being used as it has been. Lastly, 10th May-19th June = exactly 40 days so if they can do it this way, why not via Data Protection Act?

 

Anyway, should I reply again or just wait for DPA expiry date (23rd june) and then start proceedings? Maybe a phone call to gee em up?

docdros

[Docdros]

Typed up the following letter today. Will post on Monday barring any advice to the contrary:

 

"Sunday, 02 July 2006

Your Ref: 467707

 

Marc Winder

Head of Complaints

Complaints

Abbey

PO Box 5129

Milton Keynes

MK9 2YN

 

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Mr Winder

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: 22054053

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond adequately to my letter of the 15th. June. I do not consider a standardised letter and a photocopied “Customer satisfaction” leaflet to be “sincere dialogue” as requested in my previous letter. I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £978 plus £136.36 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £1114.36. I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming.

 

Furthermore, I refer you to a letter dated 19/6/06 from your Business Manager, Bank services (Pam Speed), regarding my subject access request. I repeat my position in my response dated 31/5/06: The £10 sent to your company was in order to cover a Subject access request under the Data protection Act, 1988, not a payment for multiple archived statements. I therefore consider that you have failed to supply me with the requested information and will be taking action accordingly as stated in my letter of 31/5/06.

 

 

I therefore have included an estimated claim of £200 for bank charges for the period of May 2000 to November 2002, for which you have failed to supply me with information. This brings the total amount owing to £1314.36. I reserve the right to include interest charged on this estimated amount at a later date.

 

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice. This letter has been sent by first class recorded delivery, and therefore should have reached you by 4/7/06. I therefore expect your reply by 18/7/06

 

Please be advised, I will ignore all offers of partial payments for these monies and am willing to pursue this matter to a satisfactory conclusion.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

XXXXXX "

I then included a pasted copy of the spreadsheet worked up by Vampiress I believe (many thanks btw)

Re microfiched movements: I recieved more printouts about a week ago, covering Jan 05 - Mar 05, for which I already had statements and The previous printouts were for Nov 99 to Jan 00 so nothing of any use!

 

Docdros

[Docdros]

Hi all,Got a reply from Abbey today with the usual yadda yadda, just before I filled in my Moneyclaim form online (tonight). Am tempted to reply to the "relationship has broken down....close the account....warning with something like

" Since I have been forced to take this matter to County Court, I am currently reviewing my relationship with your company and may give you notice to close the account" (since we have both got parachute accounts opened and the Abbey o/d is not in use now).

They also offered to waive fees totalling £115 as a "goodwill" gesture (roughly 10% of claim) as we had not had any recent charges refunded. This makes me wonder from a legal viewpoint..... how can they offer to refund fees if they truly reflect their costs? How do they justify this to shareholders? (Any good as a legal argument, Mods and legal eagles?)

 

Anyway, I will be filling in the particulars of calim tonight and will post here later for tips/advice. Have been reading around but any pointers to useful threads welcome

Docdros

[lisamellor]

hey docdross, i filed today also, so when i said that i was at the same stage as you in an earlier thread i didnt think it would be this alike!!

 

good luck to us both eh!!

 

lisaxx

[Docdros]

Hi Lisa,

Yeah I meant to reply to you, but haven't been very active on the forum lately! How did you get on with the word limit on Moneyclaim online? Or did you take it into court? I'm also trying to figure out how to attach a statement of charges to my claim.

Anyway, good luck to you too!

:

[Docdros]

Hi all, sorry for being quiet lately, just got out of hospital after a nasty chest infection, leading to pneumonia!

However a few days after getting out I got my 50% offer from DLA Piper etc... Suffice to say I intend to politely turn them down, but before replying I had 1 question. When I first wrote to Abbey in May, I claimed charges from May 2000. However, the letter from DLA et al says the statute of limitiations means I can only claim after July 2000 (according to their offer letter) or June 2000 (according to their actual defence)?? So when does the 6 year limit apply from? First contact with Abbey? Date of online claim?

 

any help appreciated

Docdros

[Docdros]

Just sent the following email to Paul Denham:

 

"Dear Mr Denham,

I aknowledge receipt of your letter dated August 18th., as well as a copy of your client's defence.

Unfortunately I must reject the offer of 50%. I will accept no less than 100% of the amount in question (including interest and all fees incurred).

 

With reference to your comment regarding interest on charges before 21 July 2000 (although confusingly, your defence actually refers to claims before 26 June 2000), since my first contact with your client regarding this matter was the 12th. May 2006, I have included charges dating 6 years prior to this date.

 

I have yet to receive my allocation questionnaire, and am aware of the fees involved with submission. I therefore invite your client, in the interest of saving them further costs, to settle this claim for the amount requested.

 

I would be grateful for an acknowledgment of this email and would be happy to supply any further relevant information on request.

 

I look forward to your reply

 

Docdros"

 

any thoughts/comments welcomed

 

(bu&&er! just noticed I spelled acknowledge wrong! Not v. professional!)

[lknox]

(bu&&er! just noticed I spelled acknowledge wrong! Not v. professional!)

 

I doubt he'll notice - Mr Denham is going to be very busy this week..

[Docdros]

Just wanted to ask this again as I could find no definitive answer on the forum search. When exactly does the 6 year limit date from, as my 50% offer from DLA Piper is querying my claim for May and June 2000. I included these months as my first letter to Abbey was in May this year, but can I only claim 6 years prior to the Online Moneyclaim date? I would really appreciate a reply as I need to fill my AQ and return it soon. I have emailed DLA Piper but had no reply as yet. Paul Denham is "out of office" until Thur 30th August, and the proxy he refers to (Jodie Bilsland) is not replying!!

Docdros

[Glenn UK]

Docdros

 

The 6 years, should you choose to consider it relevant, starts from when you should or could have discovered the unlawful terms if your treating it as a breach of contract.

 

However, should you choose to you can argue that sec 32 of the Limitations act (not sure which subsection) says that if they made a mistake, ommission of concealed their charges were unlawful, then the Limitations Act doesnt apply.

 

Personally i will be arguing in court if needs be that the limitations act doesnt apply due to their concelament.

 

I dont think that concealment is an issue. They should have known the charges may have been unlawful from when the Unfair terms in contracts, i always get the name of that bit of legislation wrong, but the point is, it would be reasonable to expect them to have their lawyers review the legislation when it came out. Simply the fact that thye may have discussed whether the penalties may be unlawful, even if they decide not, they have concealed the issues as i understand it.

 

Its also relevant to point out that the OFT published their report in Apr 2006, and had written to 8 cc companies the year before.

 

IMHO even if you dont want to argue in depth about the limitations act there are several options including the one you expressed about when you first made onctact with them, which maximises your claim.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Docdros]

Well, I checked our account this morning, and Abbey have credited us with just over £1800 as promised!

Looking back over my thread its been almost exactly 6 months to the day, I started on this journey. Although I have been a regular visitor to this forum, I haven't been the most prolific poster, but have gained invaluable help from the various people posting regularly and would like to thank stalwarts such as alanfromderby, LIP, johnni2bad, Whizzkid Lisamellor and Karnevil!

 

To anyone just starting this fight, I would suggest: read as much as you can on here, follow the steps recommended (I did and at each step the predicted response from Abbey was bang on the target!), don't panic about small errors and don't try to "over" communicate with Abbey. Stick to YOUR deadlines and let your actions speak for themselves. They WILL fold!!

 

Well no big plans for this money, except it pays off the overdraft and completes my "Year of Finance" leaving us debt free and able to start enjoying some of our income: planning to go on our first holiday for 3 years in 2007!

 

Any mods reading this, could you change my title to something appropriate. Cheers

 

Docdros

[lostinparadise]

Congrats Docdros.

 

Its been a long fight for us but Im glad to have been of help.

 

Enjoy the money.

 

LIPxxx:D :D

[lisamellor]

fantastic news eh!! glad to be of help

 

just got my settlement 2 days ago also!

 

hope you stay on the site to help other people!!

 

lisaxxx

[Docdros]

This topic was closed on 10 March 2019.

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