OMG!!! £10,332 and then some!!

[Lula]

LOL, it is like an extended POC, do a site search for Skeleton argument and this will help you. Basically it is an out line and a brief paragraph of each of the case law that you will be relying on in court

[Destinyofsouls]

OK thanks

 

I'll pick the bones out of it.

[Lula]

in other words just a very short court bundle LOL

 

Feeling very boney this morning are we?

[Destinyofsouls]

Application to be struck out!!!!

Under CPR 16.4

 

I imagine that this is the interest part of the claim. I used Vampires complex spready that calculates o/d interest on charges automatically .

The POC I used is above, the CPR is here:

If the claimant is seeking interest he must –

(a)state whether he is doing so –

(i)under the terms of a contract;

(ii)under an enactment and if so which; or

(iii)on some other basis and if so what that basis is; and

(b)if the claim is for a specified amount of money, state –

(i)the percentage rate at which interest is claimed;

(ii)the date from which it is claimed;

(iii)the date to which it is calculated, which must not be later than the date on which the claim form is issued;

(iv)the total amount of interest claimed to the date of calculation; and

(v)the daily rate at which interest accrues after that date.

 

Which interest does it refer to?

The interest on charges or S69 interest? I have claimed for both interest

[Karne]

Hi hun

 

What applications being struck out ?

 

What did you POC state regarding the interest claimed ?

 

 

CPR 16.4

 

16.4 (1)Particulars of claim must include –

(a)a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;

(b)if the claimant is seeking interest, a statement to that effect and the details set out in paragraph (2);

©if the claimant is seeking aggravated damages (GL) or exemplary damages (GL) , a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them;

(d)if the claimant is seeking provisional damages, a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them; and

(e)such other matters as may be set out in a practice direction.

(2)If the claimant is seeking interest he must –

(a)state whether he is doing so –

(i)under the terms of a contract;

(ii)under an enactment and if so which; or

(iii)on some other basis and if so what that basis is; and

(b)if the claim is for a specified amount of money, state –

(i)the percentage rate at which interest is claimed;

(ii)the date from which it is claimed;

(iii)the date to which it is calculated, which must not be later than the date on which the claim form is issued;

(iv)the total amount of interest claimed to the date of calculation; and

(v)the daily rate at which interest accrues after that date.

 

(Part 22 requires particulars of claim to be verified by a statement of truth)

 

Sounds like standard lack of particulars to me.

 

Can you type out the full order from the court re the stike out please ?

[Destinyofsouls]

Abbey have applied to the court to have me claim struck out under the rule below

 

 

Application to be struck out!!!!

Under CPR 16.4

 

I imagine that this is the interest part of the claim. I used Vampires complex spready that calculates o/d interest on charges automatically .

The POC I used is below, the CPR is here:

If the claimant is seeking interest he must –

(a)state whether he is doing so –

(i)under the terms of a contract;

(ii)under an enactment and if so which; or

(iii)on some other basis and if so what that basis is; and

(b)if the claim is for a specified amount of money, state –

(i)the percentage rate at which interest is claimed;

(ii)the date from which it is claimed;

(iii)the date to which it is calculated, which must not be later than the date on which the claim form is issued;

(iv)the total amount of interest claimed to the date of calculation; and

(v)the daily rate at which interest accrues after that date.

 

Which interest does it refer to?

The interest on charges or S69 interest? I have claimed for both interest

This is the POC

IN THE BIF COUNTY COURT

 

 

BETWEEN

 

- CLAIMANT

 

And

 

- DEFENDANT

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

1. The Claimant has an account, number xxxx, sort code xxxxx, ("the Account") with the Defendant.

 

2. During the period in which the Account had been operating the Defendant had automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges (“the Schedule”) applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not genuine pre-estimates of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

ii); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly but not limited to sections 3 and 11 and Schedule 2 and;

iii) the common law and Case Law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

 

c) To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of banking services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

6. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited to the Claimant’s account in respect of charges in the sum of £xxxx and interest charged thereon of £xxxx as detailed in the attached Schedule. Total £xxxxxx .

b) Court costs £xxxxx

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 of £ xxxxx

d) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 from the date of the claim until the date of judgement/settlement at a daily rate of £ xxxxx

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

[Destinyofsouls]

Abbey have applied to the court to have me claim struck out under the rule below

 

 

Application to be struck out!!!!

Under CPR 16.4

 

I imagine that this is the interest part of the claim. I used Vampires complex spready that calculates o/d interest on charges automatically .

The POC I used is below, the CPR is here:

If the claimant is seeking interest he must –

(a)state whether he is doing so –

(i)under the terms of a contract;

(ii)under an enactment and if so which; or

(iii)on some other basis and if so what that basis is; and

(b)if the claim is for a specified amount of money, state –

(i)the percentage rate at which interest is claimed;

(ii)the date from which it is claimed;

(iii)the date to which it is calculated, which must not be later than the date on which the claim form is issued;

(iv)the total amount of interest claimed to the date of calculation; and

(v)the daily rate at which interest accrues after that date.

 

Which interest does it refer to?

The interest on charges or S69 interest? I have claimed for both interest

 

This is the POC

IN THE BIF COUNTY COURT

 

 

BETWEEN

 

- CLAIMANT

 

And

 

- DEFENDANT

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

 

1. The Claimant has an account, number xxxx, sort code xxxxx, ("the Account") with the Defendant.

 

2. During the period in which the Account had been operating the Defendant had automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges (“the Schedule”) applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not genuine pre-estimates of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

ii); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly but not limited to sections 3 and 11 and Schedule 2 and;

iii) the common law and Case Law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

 

 

 

c) To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of banking services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

6. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited to the Claimant’s account in respect of charges in the sum of £xxxx and interest charged thereon of £xxxx as detailed in the attached Schedule. Total £xxxxxx .

 

b) Court costs £xxxxx

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 of £ xxxxx

 

d) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 from the date of the claim until the date of judgement/settlement at a daily rate of £ xxxxx

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

[Guest bong]

what does the application state exactly?

[Destinyofsouls]

Don't know Bong, the application was sent Ex Parte so I never got a sniff at it.

 

Just rang the court to see what was going on and one of the ladys there told me. Her exact words were:

They have applied to have the case struck out under CPR16.4. The judge has sent a copy of my POC to them asking them if they still want to continue with the application. They are also asking for costs for preparing the case. No defence has been submitted which was due 1 week ago. The judge has not even given them a time limit to reply.

[Guest bong]

sorry destiny I can't offer any advice but I notice karne has replied to your main Abbey thread. I wouldn't assume it was the interest bit though, there could be other reasons to do with the particulars.

[Destinyofsouls]

Karne

It was sent ex perte so I didn't get a look in, the lady from the court told me.

 

The judge has sent my POC to the solicitors asking if they still want to go ahead with the application, but no time limit on their reply!

My POC is as follows:

IN THE BIF COUNTY COURT

 

 

BETWEEN

 

- CLAIMANT

 

And

 

- DEFENDANT

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

1. The Claimant had an account, number xxxx, sort code xxxxx, ("the Account") with the Defendant.

 

2. During the period in which the Account had been operating the Defendant had automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges (“the Schedule”) applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not genuine pre-estimates of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

ii); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly but not limited to sections 3 and 11 and Schedule 2 and;

iii) the common law and Case Law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

 

 

c) To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of banking services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

6. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited to the Claimant’s account in respect of charges in the sum of £xxxx and interest charged thereon of £xxxx as detailed in the attached Schedule. Total £xxxxxx .

b) Court costs £xxxxx

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 of £ xxxxx

d) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 from the date of the claim until the date of judgement/settlement at a daily rate of £ xxxxx

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

[livelylad]

I have merged your threads please stick to one.

[Destinyofsouls]

Surely, I have got a chance to reply if I am wrong don't I?

[Lula]

Hi Destiny, Having glamced briefly at your POC's I cant see anything wrong with it, you are not claiming CI and only S69 interest, it is probably a try on by shabbey, I take it you have sent them your spreadsheet.

 

I think that even if, for some reason, your claim was struck out, the judge, seeing that you are a litigant in person, would grant you 45 days to re submit and probably tell you where you had gone wrong, or at the very least, tell you why he was granting the strike out so that you could work on that - personally, I think it smacks of desperation

[Destinyofsouls]

Having glamced briefly at your POC's I cant see anything wrong with it, you are not claiming CI and only S69 interest, it is probably a try on by shabbey, I take it you have sent them your spreadsheet

 

Lula

I am claiming for O/D interest on the charges as calculated by the s/sheet + 8% S69 on both the charges and the o/d interest on the charges

[Lula]

still cant see the problem, I claimed od interest twice, now, when you are claiming od interest, are you claiming the interest that they charged you when you were overdrawn or are you doing it another way (I did it like that as I was virtually overdrawn for 5 years!) and i had no argument from them, i think in all honesty that they are just fighting against the size of the claim and the fact that you are in fast track and that it is automatic disclosure, and they want to have a bit of a fight before they pay up

[Destinyofsouls]

Thanks Lula

The interest on the charges is calculated @ 8% on Vamps s/sheet. I simply put in the date, the interest and the balance, the s/sheet then calculates the interest on the charges. Then I have the charges + o/d interest on the charges + 8% S69.

I think they are asking for the law or statute that says I can claim the o/d interest on the charges, and I have searched and searched but cannot find anything

[Karne]

I agree with Lula.. The POC are fine. I wouldnt mind a look at your spreadsheet to check it over, if some one already has tho thats cool.

 

Well you havent had anything from the court regarding this 16.4 have you ? Just a word from a court clerk. Everything thus far seems in order - you havent had any letters from the court ? You sent in your spreadie to the court ? You sent back the AQ etc all ok ? Theres no reasons I can see in your thread why it would be struck out, so yes its probably just abbey trying it on.

 

Nothing but wait and see what happens I dont think. I wouldnt worry.

 

The Ex Parte Order you refer to - this is just sent to Abbey yes ? Do you know what this is about ? or just this strike out application ?

[Destinyofsouls]

The Ex Parte is the application from the bank to strike out. I canot see it because it is Ex Parte.

I have had nothing from the courts because the judge has sent my POC to the sol's asking if they still want to apply for the strike out. Until they reply, the court cannot do or send me anything

 

The thing that worries me is - I haven't put on the POC what rule/regulation/law /statute that allows me to claim o/d interest on charges

[Destinyofsouls]

Karne

Tried to put s/sheet on here before but can't do it.

I took vamps complex s/sheet. On the left hand side I entered the date/ what the charge was for and then the amount. The spready then totals it all up.

On the R/H side , I entered the date/amountof interest charged and then the balance.

On a Neg balance, the s/sheet then calculates how much interest refers to the charges. So, I might have been charged £39 but the s/sheet will calculate the interest that relates to the charge is £0.98 or something like that.

[Destinyofsouls]

Karne,

There is no AQ to send in. There has been no defence entered. It should have been in a week ago

 

The Court has told me to wait for the banks reply

[Destinyofsouls]

have to go now. Will be back @ 9.30 in the morning. ( works PC)

 

Have a great evening everyone. Thanks for your help

[Destinyofsouls]

Ladies & Gentlemen

It has now reached the stage of the AQ to be sent in.

I have got the AQ from Abbey, but I am at a loss to the comments in it, and I am looking for advice please.

They have put in witness 'Bank officer' do they normally put this in?

They have asked for small claims track ( claim is £11780) the reason is:

In the interest of commerciallity the defendant can consent to the entirety of the claim being determined in the small claims track.

 

Why would they want it in there? I thought they would have chosen the fast track to scare me with costs!

They have also put £2,000 costs in Sect G. Stupid or what?

They have also listed draft directions as follows:

1 The claimant shall within 28 days of service of this order send to the defendant and court

a) a schedule settin gout each charge repayment of which is sought ( had three already) showing the date, amount and reason for the charge

2 The claim be allocated to the SCC for hearing not beofre 10th August 2007

3 14 days prior to the allocated hearing date, the claimant and the defendant shall file and serve:

a) copies of all documents on which they are to rely on at the hearing

b) any witness statements must be included in the documents

c) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied on.

 

What do they mean 'decided cases'

 

I would also like to PM a mod for advice on a part of the defence they have sent, as I don't want any 'prying Abbey eyes' to see it.

[Robdblynd]

They always put bank officer in the witness to fact section.

 

They apply for Small Claims because there is no standard disclosure in small claims and they always put £2000 for costs but they won't get it in small claims, there is no burden of costs to either party in SCC.

 

Their draft directions are standard. I had those as well. They're a bit daft cos decided cases could read as any that have been settled in court, but we all know they never get there. You've got plenty of time anyway cos you don't have to supply that info till 14 days before the hearing date, which could be a while yet.

 

Have you submitted your AQ yet? If not, attach the Abuse of Process from GaryH's thread and the Draft Directions as well.

 

I had to submit an AQ for claim almost as big as yours and after I'd filed and served they did away with it, had Case Management Sheet to do instead cos got transfered to Mercantile court. On day Abbey should've filed and served their copy, I got a letter saying they were settling in full.

 

Hopefully you've not far to go now. Good luck with the rest of your claim.

[Destinyofsouls]

Thanks Rob, will have a look at the abuse thingy.

 

destiny