Battle with Westcot !

[magician]

Whatever the credit card debt start a small claims action to recover penalty charges and even if they do take you to court in your defence repeat to the letter the templates on here for the discovery of how much the pre estimate of penalty charges is. My partner is on the wrong end of a credit card debt cira £9,000 she paid for payment protection insurance they stopped paying after 12 months - we did not know that when she was automatically debited with the premiums when the account was set up they stillkept taking the premiumsx many months after the payment s stopped........sent in a defence of 16 pages three months ago nothing heard since .....

[woolny]

Magician - many thanks,

 

Should I also start a claim to recover charges on old debts that i've settled for reduced amounts ?

[magician]

No harm in asking for your statements over the last six years under the data protection act (total cost £10) and if there are any default charges (penalty charges) to be recovered then go for it. You might even be able to claim a court fee exemption if you are on income support or have little in the way of savings...what is it really going to cost you? Time and a few postage stamps.... If you lose well no costs involved in the small claims court...ie a claim below £5,000

[noomill060]

bump

[woolny]

Have today received a 'FINAL NOTICE' from Westcot threating me with a Claim form/summons for the full balance within the next 14 days (dated 30th March only received today !)

 

Now as they defaulted on the CCA request by a couple of months & still haven't sent the correct document - I don;t think.....

 

Is this just a bluff ? - will they take me to court when they are likely to get fined as they have committed an offence ?

 

I'm going to request statements to cliam back any unlawful charges from MBNA - but would like to know what to dowith this letter ?

 

They really emphasise the fact they they olnly 'MAY take me to court !

 

Appreicate any help..

[allykat]

Have today received a 'FINAL NOTICE' from Westcot threating me with a Claim form/summons for the full balance within the next 14 days (dated 30th March only received today !)

 

Now as they defaulted on the CCA request by a couple of months & still haven't sent the correct document - I don;t think.....

 

Is this just a bluff ? - will they take me to court when they are likely to get fined as they have committed an offence ?

 

I'm going to request statements to cliam back any unlawful charges from MBNA - but would like to know what to dowith this letter ?

 

They really emphasise the fact they they olnly 'MAY take me to court !

 

Appreicate any help..

 

Wescot = muppets

 

If it was me I'd be tempted to return their letter and mention that as they failed to comply with your CCA request, they are the ones who should be afraid of court action

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a last attempt by them to get cash from you and if you ignore it they will probably pass the debt on to a new bunch of monkeys like they did with me

[woolny]

Agree totally - **** muppets !

 

But what happens if they pass it on to another DCA - do I have to do the same all over again ? - presumably they will have no luck in coming up with the paperwork either ?

 

But am I going to keep on having to do this ?

 

How much do they pass the debt on for ? - I might prefer to settle for a heavily reduced fee (10p in pound) rather than keep bashing letters off & never having debt settled...

[woolny]

Anyone else have any advice before I revert (or not) on Tuesday...

[noomill060]

Hello, I got a final letter about my 8K Sharkleycard debt, including approx 5K worth of charges from Wescot last week.

 

Last I heard it was with Debt Managers Ltd. I sent them a CCA request last November had heard no more from them, not even a pathetic attempt to provide a copy of the application form. Nothing.

 

Then last Thursday a cough up letter from Wescot appeared. Sent them CCA request immediately, which should shut them up for a bit. If Debt Managers Ltd couldnt provide a copy of my agreement, I cant see Wescot being anymore successful.

[noomill060]

'Spose they just keep selling debts on, further on on down the food chain to proportionately ever bigger muppets who dont realise a debt without an agreement isnt a debt.

[PriorityOne]

Have today received a 'FINAL NOTICE' from Westcot threating me with a Claim form/summons for the full balance within the next 14 days (dated 30th March only received today !)

 

Now as they defaulted on the CCA request by a couple of months & still haven't sent the correct document - I don;t think.....

 

Are you sure this is not the correct doc ?... you mention that it says "regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974".

 

Is this just a bluff ? - will they take me to court when they are likely to get fined as they have committed an offence ?

 

They will not get fined in a civil court for a criminal offence.... so this will be of no consequence to them.

 

I'm going to request statements to cliam back any unlawful charges from MBNA - but would like to know what to dowith this letter ?

 

I have not read all of this thread, but if MBNA are the original creditors for this debt, a SAR to them will put the acccount in dispute, which means that no further enforcement action can be taken... by anyone... within the legal timeframe for compliance. You will need to write (rec. delivery) to Westcott to point this out to them if you do SAR MBNA.

 

They really emphasise the fact they they olnly 'MAY take me to court !

 

While you are unsure if this complies with a CCA request... it remains a possibility.

 

Appreicate any help..

 

[noomill060]

"I have not read all of this thread, but if MBNA are the original creditors for this debt, a SAR to them will put the acccount in dispute, which means that no further enforcement action can be taken... by anyone... within the legal timeframe for compliance. You will need to write (rec. delivery) to Westcott to point this out to them if you do SAR MBNA. "

 

PriorityOne

 

Are you saying that while a creditor remains in breach of the DPA by failing to comply with a S.A.R within the statutory 40 days, the account remains in dispute and no enforcement action can be taken against the debtor?

 

Could you provide a source for this excellent snippet of info?

[PriorityOne]

[quote=noomill060;714935

Are you saying that while a creditor remains in breach of the DPA by failing to comply with a S.A.R within the statutory 40 days, the account remains in dispute and no enforcement action can be taken against the debtor?

 

Could you provide a source for this excellent snippet of info?

 

 

As I understand it.... a debt cannot be enforced through the courts when an individual is in the process of requesting a refund of charges unlawfully made to an account. Therefore, an account will be "in dispute" until the matter is resolved.... otherwise an incorrect balance could be enforced. A CCA disputes ownership of a debt. A SAR disputes the amount allegedly owing. I will try and find the source....

 

[noomill060]

"A CCA disputes ownership of a debt. A SAR disputes the amount allegedly owing."

 

... so if Barclaycard remain in breach of your SAR, they may as well have gone to B&Q, bought some rope, made a noose, put their head in it, thrown the rope over a girder by the check outs and be furiously and determinedly attempting to pull themselves up to ceiling height?

 

Dear God, they arent safe to be let out!

[PriorityOne]

[quote=noomill060;714979... so if Barclaycard remain in breach of your SAR, they may as well have gone to B&Q, bought some rope, made a noose, put their head in it, thrown the rope over a girder by the check outs and be furiously and determinedly attempting to pull themselves up to ceiling height?

 

Dear God, they arent safe to be let out!

 

You can obtain a Court Order to force them to comply with a SAR.... if you think they are holding out. A SAR is a legal request.... they have to comply with it. However, once the info. is received and charges are re-claimed, the outstanding balance can be re-enforced with a CCA. Therefore, it is better for us if they don't comply with a CCA.... as without one, there is no enforceable debt.

 

[woolny]

Hi Priority one,

 

Many thanks for your comments above - would just like to clarify some of the advice you've given - as per below.

 

Would really like to know what my BEST course of action should be.

Are you sure this is not the correct doc ?... you mention that it says "regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974".

 

No i'm not 100% sure - it's not a clear, because I think they have sent two documents. I'll try & scan exactly what they have sent me - so I can get some clarity on this.

 

They will not get fined in a civil court for a criminal offence.... so this will be of no consequence to them.

What about them taking 3-4 months to send the agreement (if it is it !) - how do I use the fact they didn;t respond in time against them ?

 

I have not read all of this thread, but if MBNA are the original creditors for this debt, a SAR to them will put the acccount in dispute, which means that no further enforcement action can be taken... by anyone... within the legal timeframe for compliance. You will need to write (rec. delivery) to Westcott to point this out to them if you do SAR MBNA.

So as it stands do you think I should SAR MBNA ?

If it turns out they haven't sent me the CCA & cannot find it. he debt is unenforceable - correct ?

So can I still claim back unlawful charges from an unenforceable debt ?

 

Appreciate all help given

[PriorityOne]

Hi Woolny,

 

It's difficult to speculate upon whether this is a properly executed CCA or not... but you have said that it includes the wording "regulated by The Consumer Credit Act, 1974... which suggests that it is.

 

If this is the case, then the debt can be re-enforced in court. The fact that they have taken so long to comply makes little difference. Although you can make a formal complaint to Trading Standards and the OFT... there is no guarantee that any action will be taken against them. People sometimes get very excited by the "criminal offence" aspect of non-compliance, but in reality.... the OFT don't investigate anything on the basis of individual claims anyway, which is disappointing to say the least. Late compliance certainly won't effect the re-enforcement. The judge may not be very happy... but a civil court does not deal with criminal matters...

 

If you think there are re-claimable charges on the debt, then it would be a good idea to SAR MBNA. You can then re-claim these charges, which will reduce the debt to its true balance. In the meantime, if you find that the CCA is not a properly executed Agreement, then you are in the clear.

 

[woolny]

Priority one - really appreciate your help on this one.

 

I've tried to attach copies of what they have sent me - would really like to know if this is a properly executed CCA ?

 

If it is or isn't then what my next steps should be.

CCA1.pdf

CCA2.pdf

[PriorityOne]

IMHO Woolny... the 1st one looks like an application form.... and the second one isn't attached to anything ! I can only see one sig. on there as well. Surely, it would need to be included as part of the whole Agreement and contain 2 sigs.? It makes me wonder at the logic of them chopping it off and including it on its own !

 

Anyone else have any thoughts ?

 

[woolny]

Thats what makes me not sure - the first one is deffo the application form & when they sent it they said - heres a copy of your opening application..

 

But then I found the signed bit on the back - i've attached another copy slightly enlarged. It kind of hase a stamp & signature on it - but it;s not clear.... also it's ripped off the details of whatever it is i'm signing for.

 

Advice on next steps still greatly appreciated

CCA2.pdf

[Mike220359]

There is a countersignature that Westcott could infer is the bank's, however, some of the prescribed terms are missing, interest rate and credit limit, although the latter may be in the T & Cs that I assume weren't sent with the copy. They should have provided a copy of the original T & Cs with the copy if they didn't they are still in breech of section 78

 

Mike

[woolny]

Mike - no these copy documents are all they have sent me.

The also did not supply any details of opening/closing balance & payments made - do they have to supply that also ?

 

So if they are still in breach - what should my move be ?

- Sit and wait ?

- Send them some form of letter ?

- SAR MBNA to cover myself incase I do have to pay the debt

- Make a F&F settlement offer - should they settle for a minimal fee (10-20p in the pound), due to age of debt & lack of clarity on paperwork ?

 

I'm really not sure what to do on this one, as I said it's the last outstanding debt I have from an original amount of approx £50,000.... I tried to settle this at the time - but Westcot & MBNA both couldn't find any record of me still owing money !

[PriorityOne]

Mike - no these copy documents are all they have sent me.

The also did not supply any details of opening/closing balance & payments made - do they have to supply that also ?

 

Yes, they have to supply you with a statement of payments made... as detailed in the CCA request.

 

So if they are still in breach - what should my move be ?

- Sit and wait ?

- Send them some form of letter ?

- SAR MBNA to cover myself incase I do have to pay the debt

- Make a F&F settlement offer - should they settle for a minimal fee (10-20p in the pound), due to age of debt & lack of clarity on paperwork ?

 

You could SAR MBNA, but send the letter below rec. delivery to the DCA and see what comes back.

 

I'm really not sure what to do on this one, as I said it's the last outstanding debt I have from an original amount of approx £50,000.... I tried to settle this at the time - but Westcot & MBNA both couldn't find any record of me still owing money !

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re. Ref. No. xxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/2007.

 

Unfortunately, the document(s) that you have sent me do not comply with my legal request for a properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974.

 

Therefore, until I have sight of properly executed Agreement(s) in order to determine your legitimate right to collect on this account, no further payments will be forthcoming and the account remains in dispute.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[woolny]

Morning all,

 

Thought this had disapeared, but good old Westcot are worse than the terminator !

 

Sent above letter as recdomended by Priorityone & have not heard anything until now.

 

Received a letter dated 04/11/07 from NELSON GUEST & PARTNERS SOLICITORS - informing me that unless payment is made within 7 days, legal proceedings may be commenced without further notice.

 

Now this letter seems very similar to the previous letter threatening court action - which never happened.

 

However would be grateful if someone could offer any new/further advice.

 

1. I never ended up sending the SAR request to MBNA for unlawful charges - should I still do this what with the delaying of any cases until after the 'big case' ? - If I do SAR them, they will not be able to respond until after the big case, so does that mean my account will be in dispute & Westcot won't be able to chase me ?

 

2. Any other suggestions appreciated

 

Many thanks

Woolny

[magician]

A simple response Name and address only (no telephone numbers!) Dear Sir, Your letter of the 'date' has been recieved and the content has been noted. The amount in question, as you are fully aware is in dispute. Kindly respond to my previous, repeated requests for information. In order that this matter can proceed. Yours truly etc At the end of the day Wescot, would have to refer it back to their client UNLESS they have purchased the debt. Although the unfair charges claims are being held over, if you think you have a valid case there is nothing to stop you continuing with the building of your case and possibly filling in and filing the claim form. As for the £8 a month, if you can afford it then carry on as it shows good faith and continuity of intgent to pay at least something of a DISPUTED DEBT if the matter ever went to court. Antoher tactic is to refuse to deal with Wescot and only deal in writing with the lender, certainly do not discuss it even informally over the telephone, cite a medical condition, ie fear of telephones, as they will browbeat you into an arrangement you really would not wish to be tied into. As others have said, if they wish to carry on with this claim it would need a new application by them to court.

Best of Luck......