sn00psmum (&dad) v RBS

[isidore]

Surely then Glenn (following on from your line of thought) for the sake of two letters, the best thing to do would be to send a letter of dispute to both M/Croft and RBS?

 

Assuming the deadline Snoopsmum mentions above (yesterday if my maths is still ok!) is stuck to she is already on borrowed time.

 

What do you think?

[isidore]

And looking a beyond this issue SM, in relation to your gripe regarding spiralling postage costs. Keep a note of every letter you read (from them) write and send for future reference. I think it was one of Glenn's cases funnily enough I read ages ago where he successfully claimed for costs including reading, writing and sending letters.

 

Which one was it........was it Co-op Glenn?? EDIT: No it was Barclaycard.

 

Worth investigating IMO. Kept a note of it somewhere, see if I can find out which one it was in my ever-growing subscription list

[sn00psmum]

Thanks you guys, I thought that's how it was and was fairly confident of it until the M/croft phonecall. TBH I wasn't expecting an argument when I phoned them, I thought he would realise the implications of the a/c being in dispute and say there had been crossed post or something. Maybe it's just a case of RBS having so much paperwork at the mo that they've not got to it yet but given the timescale involved, grr!

 

You're right also, about the letters- I will write to both in the morning, for the sake of a few quid- i'll do something like Glenn's wording above and throw in the line from the harrassment/dispute template about the OFT code of guidance, which this action is clearly in breach of.

 

And looking a beyond this issue SM, in relation to your gripe regarding spiralling postage costs. Keep a note of every letter you read (from them) write and send for future reference. I think it was one of Glenn's cases funnily enough I read ages ago where he successfully claimed for costs including reading, writing and sending letters.

 

Which one was it........was it Co-op Glenn?? EDIT: No it was Barclaycard.

 

Worth investigating IMO. Kept a note of it somewhere, see if I can find out which one it was in my ever-growing subscription list

 

Thanks for this T4FF, i'll have a look at this thread later (i'm probs already subscribed, lost track, as yours the list grows daily!) I thought you could only claim costs once it reached court tho?

 

As always, thanks for help- it's much appreciated!

SM:p

[isidore]

Well I did say beyond

 

Ok not beyond the issue, but way beyond. I am assuming you will get to court. Can't see why they are going to settle in advance of this given the sums.

[sn00psmum]

True, principle sum now over £9k & CI brings it to over £17.5k :o :o

[Glenn UK]

T4FF

 

I don't have a problem SM sending the letters to both, however, I think its important to understand that the debt as i understand it belongs to the bank. Moorcroft don't have any interest or in fact any control over the issues, they are being wagged by the bank.

 

The point is that you should write to the bank and CC Moorcroft in on it, this establishes the priority in everyones mind and makes it clear to Moorcroft that they are only acting for the bank.

 

SM re the content of the letter, please keep the letter simple, I really would just use this to confirm the dispute.

 

There is plenty of time to write about harassment, this letter needs to be very specific so there is no doubt in anyones mind what the purpose of this letter is.

 

That way down the line they cannot say there was any confusion.

 

Re costs, you can claim them if they will pay them, I have managed so far to claim costs for two of my four claims and am in the process of doing the third costs schedule.

 

The way it works is that if the claim hasn't been allocated then you can ask for costs on the basis it might have been allocated to fast track or above.

 

If its allocated to fast track or above then you are entitled to claim costs when you win.

 

If it hasn't got to court you can ask for costs and then of course its a matter of how good at haggling you are as to what you get.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[isidore]

See your point, and do agree.

 

Was just thinking it important to not rely on RBS to let MC know if SM doesn't want them knocking her door down lol. CCing MC into the letter to RBS makes sense.

[sn00psmum]

LOL, could do with a new front door!

SM:p

[Chrisopenuni]

T4FF

 

 

 

The way it works is that if the claim hasn't been allocated then you can ask for costs on the basis it might have been allocated to fast track or above.

 

If its allocated to fast track or above then you are entitled to claim costs when you win.

 

 

 

Glenn

 

May I just take this opportunity to remind all who are advising on this case that this is a Scottish claim and the fast track doesnt exist up here. We are limited to £750 for a small claim, £1500 for a summary cause and / or a mixture of these running one after the other. The only way to do it in one lot for 17.5K would be an Ordinary Action, unless she is prepared to lodge many summary cause actions one after the other, all claiming for contractual. A woman in Stirling just lost a few weeks ago because a lawyer for Clydesdale bank argued successfully that the woman's successive claims (it was her third) were an abuse of process. It was thrown out for incompetence (and she wasnt even claiming CI). An Ordinary Action is advisable here if there is insistence on claiming this amount. Thas simply the law here in Scotland. It's VERY different limit amounts in England, where for example, the fast track exists.

 

I just wanted to mention this, so that sn00psmum doesnt get confused with the court processes available to her as she is resident in Scotland.

 

Incidentally, I hope all is going well with your claims Sn00psmum.

 

Kind regards,

 

Chrissie (and no, i didnt follow you here , Ive been registered on here for a long while, just in case you think I'm following you)

[Glenn UK]

Chrissie

 

Good point, I didn't realize it was a Scots claim or would have kept my mouth shut as i have very little knowledge of courts claims generally and even less when they occur in the Scottish courts.

[Chrisopenuni]

No problem Glenn,you have a superb heart to be helping in any case. I wouldnt normally have commented but am very concerned for the safety of this particular claim and my conscience wouldnt allow me to zip it. Its quite amazing the differences that exist between Scottish and English Law. I'll butt out now, just wanted to bring the Scottish element back to the attention of those advising on this thread.

 

Kind regards,

Chrissie. (I am from another site, but at the end of the day, we're all aiming for the same thing and safe claims, so I didnt think anyone would mind.)

[sn00psmum]

Incidentally, I hope all is going well with your claims Sn00psmum.

 

Thanks Chrissie, nice of you to pop by and post:) I can no longer update my other thread as it's been closed and I am banned from the site!! (a little extreme?) How are yours going BTW?

 

I have mentioned a few times in this thread that i'm in Scotland, I thought everyone knew, sorry if i've not been clear, the reason I didn't post in the Scottish section here is I thought I would get more exposure in the RBS section, mods, if i'm in the wrong place then please feel free to move me along!

 

SM:p

[isidore]

I must confess, I forgot about this as a result of all the other issues that have been going on. You did make it clear early on in this thread but in defence of Glenn etc, they have waded in at a later date and have addressed the issue with your calculations.

 

Glenn, is there a scottish you around?

[Chrisopenuni]

HI sn00ps,

Thanks, my claims are all nearly finished and have been successful.

The decision to ban was one made by Admin based on concerns that the details of the claim may have misled others. Also, we Mods were getting very stressed with the case - its not easy for us to accept defeat or to switch off when the pc turns off. It was a defeat in the sense that we do not feel our advice was properly understood and we exhausted all ou avenues to be able to assist you. It was nothing personal.

 

I know you have mentioned you're claiming in Scotland earlier in the thread, but what tends to happen after a thread becomes very long, especially if not in the appropriately named section, is that folk will read back only a few posts and offer their advice based on it. Normally this would be ok, but in your case, this claim is very complex ad unusual in that it has many components.

Obviously, with the amount that you are claiming, it is absolutely vital that the fact it is a Scottish claim does not stray far from anyone's thoughts when they advise. The processes are very,very different and I would suggest that anytime someone makes a reference to you regarding English legal system, that you bear his in mind, for the sake of the safety of your claim.

With absolutely NO disrespect intended towards our fellow CAG friends, there is a focus on English Law here and if you have your claim thread located in this section, you will probably find that the advice you are given, no matter how good, is given on the assumption that you're claiming through the English system.

 

Naturally, Mods and members alike tend to specialise in the law applicable to their own country. I am no exception. Whilst I am aware of the differences of the English way of claiming, I have not used the system myself. My speciality is the Scottish system, hence the reason the other Scottish staff on our site were very scathing about your approach to your claim. We knew this case was a potential disaster.

I must confess I still feel exactly the same way, but it is your claim, not mine or anyone else's and I wouldn't dare presume to know best.

 

What I do know, and would continue to remind you is that the odds are not in your favour at all within the Scottish system, rightly or wrongly.

 

As you are already aware of this, I will not continue to bother you with the reasons why. However I would say that from reading this thread, I believe things to be even more complicated than even we were aware of at the start. I now believe it may be in your interests to seek professional legal advice on this claim, even if only for one consultation, in order to clarify the legal stance in this matter as it has a multitude af facets not typical of an "average" claim. In fact, your case isn't typical of a complex claim either.

 

I have no interest in causing you distress or being a party pooper generally, but on a personal level, from one lady to another (I have 3 kids and wouldn't want to lose everything either), the emotional impact the stress of these claims has had on you, has interfered with your ability to see what may lie ahead of you, and I am quite worried for you, and its not even my own money! LOL

 

Whatever happens, as I have stated before, I wish you well, and contrary to what you may think are the motives of the other Scottish Mods on our site, we all wanted to think you could win. Its just unfortunate that given the details, none of us believe it can actually happen under Scottish Law.

 

I hope in time we will be proved wrong, as it's clear your path is now decided. I also hope the advice and encouragement you are receiving from this site will help you to win. Just make sure they are talking about the Scottish route, as the differences cannot and must not be underestimated.

 

With very best wishes,

 

Chrissie.

[isidore]

Snoop, taking some of Chrissie's post on board........might I suggest you get the title amended to read snoopsmum vs RBS *SCOTTISH CLAIM* or something similar so there's no mistaking?

 

 

I'm no expert here and don't claim to be, so my suggestions are always open to correction from the wiser people here, but is there any way snoopsmum could (personal restrictions aside for a minute) claim in an english court??

[sn00psmum]

Snoop, taking some of Chrissie's post on board........might I suggest you get the title amended to read snoopsmum vs RBS *SCOTTISH CLAIM* or something similar so there's no mistaking?

 

Good point T4FF, will do!

 

I'm no expert here and don't claim to be, so my suggestions are always open to correction from the wiser people here, but is there any way snoopsmum could (personal restrictions aside for a minute) claim in an english court??

 

Having read this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/73071-rbs-aberdeenshire-combine-oc.html and having taken note of Chrissie's comment about the lady losing due to 'abuse of process':o

I am considering going down the FOS route, any thoughts?

SM:p

[poltmcm]

i think that is a good idea add in about interest, only thing is it is up to the person handling the claim for FOS whether you get it or not. good luck

 

also please try and get a FREE consultation at a solicitors just to see if you have a case, legal aid may be available to you.........you never know but worth a try. poltmcm

[Chrisopenuni]

Unless you have someone resident in England to whom you can pass power of attorney to, you need to be resident in England / Scotland for at least 3 months before the laws applicable to that part of the UK apply.

[poltmcm]

i can see complex jurisdiction issues with claiming against RBOS in England, mostly due to the fact you signed the contract in Scotland and reside in Scotland. so unless the consumer actually lived in England or their registered address was in England then it is a no go.

[isidore]

Understand, just lookin at options.

[sn00psmum]

Chrissie, stop stressing you are not butting in, your input to this thread is very welcome as is everyone else's! I really appreciate the advice i'm being given here and I AM listening to reason, believe it or not:D

 

Poltmcm, I am seriously considering consulting with a solicitor and appreciate that I may have no alternative, but a few of the points that Chrissie raised about the lower limits & greater risks have been niggling me for a while now. At the risk of sounding like a spoilt brat, it's not fair!!

I think i'll give the FOS a go first and see what happens.

 

Just a thought, if my attempt with the FOS fails or for any reason I don't get the result I hoped for, then that's it, isn't it? Game over?

 

Here's another wee gem i'll throw in and see what reaction it gets- I also wish to claim interest on Provident loans, thread here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/74154-interest-loan.html (i hear you groan:roll:) taken out to cover what money we would have had if it hadn't been for bank charges. Should I do a separate claim or do it altogether, bearing in mind it will probably go through FOS or OC?

There is an interesting thread on this in my sig, my one (above) has no replies

SM:p

[isidore]

It's an interesting point and one I would consider but I guess the only issue is biting off more than you can chew?

 

There is certainly an argument for this, but given you are claiming for CI which as you should already know by now is not a proven argument and it would seem is possibly a lot down to which judge you end up with, it might be detrimental to your claim - possibly could be seen as "pushing your luck"? I'm not sure.....

 

 

Incidentally, I'm involved with a post here, can't remember if I've seen your name in there (couldn't be bothered checking ).

[sn00psmum]

Incidentally, I'm involved with a post here, can't remember if I've seen your name in there (couldn't be bothered checking ).

 

T4FF, you have indeed seen my name here, this is the thread in my sig, I was directed to it by Photoman as it discusses issues similar to the interest one above.

SM:p

[sn00psmum]

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!

 

On 23rd March I sent the following letter to RBS and cc to M/croft:

 

For the avoidance of doubt we wish to confirm formally that the balance on this account is in dispute, it has been in dispute since 23rd January 2007 and will continue to remain so until written notice from ourselves to the contrary.

We trust that this clarifies our position.

 

Signed for by RBS on 28th (5 days to get delivered??) and signed for by M/croft on 26th March. Today another letter has arrived from M/croft dated 28th March demanding full payment or agreeing to pay £120/mth!!

I'm hoping this is a simple case of crossed post but if it isn't, do M/croft think they are a law unto themselves??

 

I have also received from RBS a standard response to my new prelim (sent 20th March), meaning that RBS have now acknowledged that the a/c is in dispute and are therefore aware that they are still breaching OFT code of guidance by instructing M/croft to act in this manner over a disputed debt.:o :-|

 

Oh well, i'm not worried as I know i've done everything I need to do to let them know our position, I just thought i'd post as it's yet another example of the tactics the banks are prepared to use to try and scare people off!! More ammo for the FOS/ Sherriff.

SM:p

[Seahorse]

Hi Snoopsmum.

 

Just an update on my claim. As you know, I am claiming CI too. However, having written to RBS and told them that my next step would be the FOS, I am now told that an offer will soon be on its way.

 

As far as I'm aware, it is VERY unlikely that the FOS would back up my claim for CI in any case. So, unless the offer is totally ridiculous, I will probably accept. If it isn't acceptable, and they don't raise it, I will take it to the FOS. If the RBS match the FOS's recommendations, I'll also take it. But if no joy with the FOS's intervention, then off to court I go. But as you know, I have a solicitor on board to try to get the best deal.

 

I'm now under no illusions that the CI is likely, but if it goes all the way, then that's what I will be aiming for. BUT. I've still to see their offer.

 

I know it feels like a kick in the teeth that they can charge us nearly 30% interest, and we have to fight for it with no guarantee of a win. But for me, I need to be realistic. 30 grand as a figure is somewhat blinding, but I can just about see past that to realise that even just getting my charges back is a lot more than I could have hoped for a few short months ago.

 

So. Possibly no nice shiny car and a holiday in the sun coming my way. But at least it will get me fairly straight again, which is a BIG bonus, believe me.