Finacial Advisor Bogus Charges

[lillboy]

Hi

i would like some advise on who i should try to recoupe charges from.

 

My fiancial advisor who acted for me for several years was adding charges to the remorgaging process and saying these where charges that had to be paid to the lender. Payment was always cash or cheque made out to the company that he was employed by, or so we thought.

on our last remortgae we notice that the copmany lending the money had stipulated that no fees would be incurred. so we rang the company advising us to ask for a refund of fees paid. After several phone calls (because the actual advisor in question was on an 8 week sailing trip:cool: ) it became apparent that the advisor had infact set up another Bank acount using the same name as the company but minus the IFA so his account was XXXXXX but the company account was XXXXXX IFA. At this time the police was notified and he was charges we obtaning money by deception on his arrival back to the UK.

The false account was frozen after he had withdrawn all the money from it.

 

He was charged in march 2005, now i have been imformed that the CPS no longer want to proceed with the case, I am just one of a large number of people who had to give statements, and it was agreed with the Company that he worked for that my previous remortgages had been subject to these false charges. spanning over 2 years. How Much had he made

 

The actual company have helped us gather evidence to submit to the police and i continue to use them as my advisors.

if i take this to the small claims courts who do i file the case against ?

The Company which he represented or the individual.

Does anyone out there Know of any lawyers that deals with this kind of legal dispute or should i just find out where he lives and smash his head in:D .

 

He continues to work in the finacial sevices sector working for another company. I am told he can do this because he is employed as an introducer not advisor. This makes my blood boil:mad: .

 

If i was to try and claim this money back from the company could any one give any ideas as what i should put in the letter, should i formally ask for the refunded money before filling a small claims form.

i have asked personally for the money but the company says it could not possibly afford to refund the money to all the people that he has conned.

Any help on this matter would be appreciated.

 

Thanks Lillboy

[pmhread]

Hi

i would like some advise on who i should try to recoupe charges from.

 

My fiancial advisor who acted for me for several years was adding charges to the remorgaging process and saying these where charges that had to be paid to the lender. Payment was always cash or cheque made out to the company that he was employed by, or so we thought.

on our last remortgae we notice that the copmany lending the money had stipulated that no fees would be incurred. so we rang the company advising us to ask for a refund of fees paid. After several phone calls (because the actual advisor in question was on an 8 week sailing trip:cool: ) it became apparent that the advisor had infact set up another Bank acount using the same name as the company but minus the IFA so his account was XXXXXX but the company account was XXXXXX IFA. At this time the police was notified and he was charges we obtaning money by deception on his arrival back to the UK.

The false account was frozen after he had withdrawn all the money from it.

 

He was charged in march 2005, now i have been imformed that the CPS no longer want to proceed with the case, I am just one of a large number of people who had to give statements, and it was agreed with the Company that he worked for that my previous remortgages had been subject to these false charges. spanning over 2 years. How Much had he made

 

The actual company have helped us gather evidence to submit to the police and i continue to use them as my advisors.

if i take this to the small claims courts who do i file the case against ?

The Company which he represented or the individual.

Does anyone out there Know of any lawyers that deals with this kind of legal dispute or should i just find out where he lives and smash his head in:D .

 

He continues to work in the finacial sevices sector working for another company. I am told he can do this because he is employed as an introducer not advisor. This makes my blood boil:mad: .

 

If i was to try and claim this money back from the company could any one give any ideas as what i should put in the letter, should i formally ask for the refunded money before filling a small claims form.

i have asked personally for the money but the company says it could not possibly afford to refund the money to all the people that he has conned.

Any help on this matter would be appreciated.

 

Thanks Lillboy

 

The company will have Professional Indemnity Insurance for cases such as this. I would suggest making a formal complaint in writing to the company and asking for charges back plus interest. If no joy, you can make a complaint against the company via the Ombudsman (the details of which your IFA is obliged to provide you with). I would suggest it is then down to the company or insurer to bring charges against the IFA responsible for this con. To say they can't afford to refund everyone who their employee has conned is preposterous.... it was their employee for pity's sake and they should have been monitoring his activities via an internal compliance officer (which they are obliged to have).

 

I would also find another IFA as soon as possible and take your business away from that shower of idiots.

 

I would also consider an anonymous letter to his new employer but I never said that....

 

Find it hard to believe that the CPS aren't going to take it any further.... how ridiculous is that!!

[lillboy]

hi there thanks for your reply.

i am finding it difficult to find any contact details for the advisor himself, i am finding it easier to get info about his yacht than his new company details.

 

I will be contacting the company shortly but any advice on what to put in the intial letter woulod be appreciated.

 

Thanks Lillboy

 

did i mention that he was one of three directors of the company when his was adding these charges.

[pmhread]

hi there thanks for your reply.

i am finding it difficult to find any contact details for the advisor himself, i am finding it easier to get info about his yacht than his new company details.

 

I will be contacting the company shortly but any advice on what to put in the intial letter woulod be appreciated.

 

Thanks Lillboy

 

did i mention that he was one of three directors of the company when his was adding these charges.

 

You shouldn't need to contact the adviser personally now. It will all go through his ex company.

 

I was an adviser for 8 years but never received a complaint so I'm not too sure about the wording you could use. I would simply set out what the problem is, what has been taken unlawfully and what you expect back. Give them a time limit to respond by and ask for details of the Ombudsman. It might be a bit of a long drawn out process but there's no way the company should be allowed to get away with this....especially as he was a director!

 

You should phone the company as well and ask for the name of the internal compliance officer (could have even been him!!) and address the letter to this person.

[lillboy]

Hi here is a copy of a letter i intend sending to the company,

Copied bit from the bank charges letter hope it works.

 

Dear Directors

I have just officially been notified from the police that the Crown Prosecution Service are no longer pursuing the case regarding Mr XXXXXX.

I have obtained legal advice on recovering the losses I incurred whilst being advised by Mr XXXXXX for my financial matters.

Therefore because Mr XXXXX was representing and employed by XXXXX you are responsible for the refunding of the money.

I am therefore requesting refund of the £299.00 paid to Mr XXXXXon or around 4th Nov 2004 for the setting up of the mortgage with XXXXX Building Society.

On you obtaining copies of all my financial documents from me, after Mr XXXXX had gained entry into your offices and removed my files, one of the directors identified that there was extra charges levied on the previous Mortgage with XXXXXand that these extra charges where not applicable to this mortgage application and therefore should be refunded.

I am also requesting refund of the £200.00 paid to Mr XXXXX on or around 18Th October 2002 for the setting up of Mortgage with XXXXX Bank.

In earlier conversations one of the directors indicated that the company could not afford to reimburse all the people who where duped into paying the false charges levied by Mr XXXXX, since seeking advise I now understand that your company would have professional indemnity insurance covering such claims, also you will still be receiving commission for the products sold to me by Mr XXXXX.

Should you decide that you will not be refunding a total of £499.00 I will be pursing this through the County Courts System.

I understand that when making a County Court claim, then I can claim interest on the money the defendant owes me, that is that the claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year, I will be adding this interest in accordance with this act should you decide to defend this claim.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting unconditionally my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

If you do not respond or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

After that will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a County Court Claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours truly,

lillboy

Please could anyone add any other info i should include or remove before posting this to the company

i Have also put this on Money Saving Expert forum hoping for any positive advise.

Any advise would be grately appreciated.

[lillboy]

Hi everyone

I had phone call today from one of the directors stating that his legal team are still trying to recoupe the money from the false fees of the defendant alltough police have dropped the charges.

He stated that he would not be able to refund my charges untill this is complete !

I have told him to pass my letter to his legal advisor as i would be continuing with the claim.

Questions

1. do i continue with the claim and submitt a "letter before action 14 days after sending origional letter.

2. if i get a letter from their solicitors do i need to get my own solicitor to reply to the letter.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Lillboy,I am very sorry to read your mortgage adviser problem.

 

Having worked in the mortgage industry,I can suggest you do the following - some points may overlap with other posters advice:

 

1.Complain to the company that this "crook" worked for in the first instance - which it seems you have already done.By the way the company is ALWAYS liable for the actions of its employees - it is called vicarious liability in legal jargon.

 

2.DO NOT wait for the company's legal team to investigate.This could take forever!

 

3.All mortgage companies whether 1man/woman bands or larger companies MUST have by law indemnity insurance to pay claims - normally of course these claims are mainly claims of misselling and not defrauding by the staff/advisers.My guess is that because many people were defrauded by this "crook",the company does not want to involve its insurers for obvious reasons.Also,the company has been negligent in not spotting this crook earlier - by the way,do not use the word crook in your letters!Be firm but not inflamatory(mind you if I was in your shoes I would probably want to swear and more!).

 

4.So,complain to the company(send the letter by recorded delivery to the regulatory officer within the company or director)

 

Make it as brief as possible.

______________________________________________________________________

I would suggest the letter to be written as follows:

 

RECORDED DELIVERY

FAO:Compliance Officer/Director

Reference:Refund of £xxxx - Fraudulent Charges

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to you regarding the above matter.

 

Please note:

 

1.I am complaining against Mr.xxxxx who assisted in dealing with our mortgage and added charges which he was not allowed to do - amount stated above.

 

2.For me to wait until your legal team investigate this fraud is totally unacceptable.

 

3.If I do not receive a full refund of £xxx within 10 working days,you will me with no option and with the deepest regret to take further action against you

and without further notice on my part.

 

I trust that you will deal with this matter in a swift and amicable manner.

 

I look forward to receiving a written reply by return.

 

Many thanks for your attention.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Lillboy

 

Note:The contents of this letter must not be taken personally by its readers in any shape or form.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

5.If you know the Director's name it is better for you.It makes it more personal and final as well!

 

6.Give the company two weeks to respond.Failing that - Complain to the FSA about the company.The FSA should investigate and hopefully see that you are refunded.Failing that sue the company.

 

7.Also there is nothing to stop you from complaining against the "crook" to the FSA.You will need to know his full name and of course details of current employer.If the police are not going to prosecute does not mean that this crook would essentially be "let off the hook" by the FSA.

 

I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted!

[lillboy]

Hi

i was told he was working as an introducer for another company. His details are still on the FSA website but it does say he is inactive, No company deatails are now registered.

[pmhread]

Oh yes and don't forget to let the local paper know about this company. There will still be people out there who don't have a clue that they have been conned.

[pmhread]

My gut feeling would be to go through the regulators instead of immediate legal action. If you take action as an individual, I think the company would pay up before court and that would be the last they hear of it. The regulators would come down hard on this company to make sure it doesn't happen again. If you know of a few people who this has happened to, maybe you could make a joint complaint to the FSA?

 

If the police aren't taking any action against this chap then the FSA won't either as they don't have the power to do so. It's ridiculous but what he's doing is perfectly legal in the eyes of the law. He is essentially just a salesman now (even though he could still be conning people!). I would think the worst they can do to him is strike him off the register and make sure he's never a Financial Adviser again.

[lillboy]

Oh yes and don't forget to let the local paper know about this company. There will still be people out there who don't have a clue that they have been conned.

 

I thought about this to find out other peoples details who had to give evidence to the police but thought i may not be acting legally and play right into their hands.

[lillboy]

i am eagerly awaiting a response from thier solicitors.

ill keep you posted.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Lillboy,if I were in your shoes please note:

 

 

1.To concentrate on getting your money back.

 

2.The criminal investigation is nothing really to do with you.As far as you are concerned you are out of pocket and the company needs to remedy the situation because it is legally liable.

 

3.As you do not know the full picture it would be improper in my view to put details etc in the newspapers.This may vent out your anger a bit but equally you do not get your money back.Also you may say something which in time turns out incorrect and it would then backfire against you.

 

4.I would give the company a fixed amount of time say 2 weeks maximum and failing that contact the FSA outlining the problem/complaint as one of the FSA's main objectives is to increase consumer protection.

 

5.Once you have complained to the FSA,the "crooked" adviser will also be investigated and hopefully struck off and possibly fined.So he does not cause anybody else to be defrauded.

 

6.At the last resort,go to court.

 

In the end,hopefully you will then get your money back either in the next 2 weeks from the company initially or with a bit of pressure after the intervention from the FSA.

 

I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you need any further information or guidance,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[lillboy]

Hi All

Got a Letter from Companies Solicitors today

 

Am i allowed to post contents of the letter on forum.

there not paying up yet,maybe by the end of the year.

 

Could anyone also answer the question

 

Who is a finders fee paid to is

A) The mortgage lender

B) The Financial Advisor

 

I think the answer is B could anyone confirm this for me

[pmhread]

It's the adviser. The finders fee is their commission for introducing you to them.

 

You need to contact the FSA immediately if not already done so. It sounds like the adviser knows he will potentially be struck off anyway so it won't be a problem for him.... it's the company who are the target for allowing this to happen.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Lillboy,in answer to your question:

 

Mainly,there are three kinds of fees:

 

1.A finder's fee is paid to the financial adviser for finding the mortgage customer for a particular lender by the lender or the packager - (a company that deals with more than one lender)to pass the fee onto the adviser.

 

This fee is paid after the legal completion of the mortgage transaction.

 

2.Also,the adviser can legally charge a fee to the customer for finding him/her/them a suitable mortgage facility.Normally the customer signs a fee agreement with the adviser/broker and this fee is legally owed to the adviser/broker on the completion date of the mortgage transaction.

 

This fee is normally called Broker Fee.

 

However you look at it there are two types of fees financial advisers/brokers can legally obtain - fees from the mortgage company that has accepted the adviser's/broker's customer and the fee that the adviser/broker can legally charge his/her client both upon completion of the mortgage.

 

3.There is a third type of fee which is an upfront fee - called Application Fee.

 

This fee is paid to the Broker/Adviser for arranging quotes for the customer.The only difference is that if the customer does not proceed with the mortgage within 6 months of receiving the illustrations - he/she/they can have all the Application Fee refunded apart from £5.Don't ask me why this is the law!

 

There are other fees invoved with a mortgage but the above fees are the one's that are NOT paid to the lender or solicitor.

 

Now about you problem,I would contact the FSA and hopefully you should get your money back.

 

If the FSA drags its feet,issue a LBA and if you do not get paid within say 1 month,sue!

 

I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted!

 

All the best!

[lillboy]

This is the reply i got Just to keep everyone in the picture.

 

We act on behalf above- named clients who have passed to us your letter to them dated 18Th May 2006. As we believe our clients have made your aware, we are pursuing County Court proceedings against former employee, XXXXXX, who has misappropriated fees paid by costumers to him for fincial advice in circumstances where fees should not have been charged.

 

It is regrettable that the crown prosecution service decided not to bring criminal proceedings against XXXXXX whom it would appear, has defrauded several customers. We can advise that county court proceedings are still ongoing and have not yet concluded.

 

As part of the claim against XXXX, our clients are seeking to recover all sums taken by him from it’s costumers. Mr XXXX had no authority to take fees from it’s customers in these circumstances and he was not therefore acting in the course of his duties. We do not believe therefore that our clients would be held to be vicariously liable for his unlawful acts. Nonetheless they hope to be able to recover, on behalf of their customers, the various sums which have been taken by Mr XXXX at the conclusion of these proceedings, which we anticipate will be finalised by the end of this year.

 

The payment made by you to Mr XXXXX, in the sum of £299.00, paid on or about 4TH November 2004, has been included in the quantification of our client’s claim and if that sum is recovered from Mr XXXXX it will be repaid to you.

 

We note that you are also seeking a refund of £200.00 paid to Mr XXXX on 18th October 2002 for the setting up of the mortgage with standard life bank. This sum however was properly charged and forwarded to the Standard Life Bank and is not a sum which has been falsely claimed by Mr XXX and will not therefore be refundable.

 

We trust this clarifies the position but if you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Robin C. Untz

Solicitors

 

 

My Next Plan of Action

Pass all details onto FSA and ask them for advise.

write direct to the company not solicitors stating that

1, The fees paid where paid to Mr XXXX and by the admission of one of the directors this fees was not applicable within the companies Terms of business letter i have copy dated Oct 2002. (Company recieved commision from lender No booking fees or finders fees payable by customer).

2, i am passing all relevant information to the FSA to investigate.

3, i will still be serving a letter before action on or around 1/06/06 i may date the letter before action to give 28days to reply to enable the FSA more time to resolve the matter.

 

 

i find it amazing that they can admit he was claiming false fees but not take responsibilty for his actions.

i am also going to contact all insurance companies to tell them that the company no longer deals with my finacial matters and no corespondance should be disclused to them in future.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Lillboy,having read your posting I can conclude:

 

1.This solicitor either is talking out of his a*** or living in Lalaland or both!

 

In my view the employer IS liable for the departed adviser's actions because he was acting as an officer of that company at that time.His actions were in the course of carrying out his duties as a mortgage adviser for the company.

So,the employer is "vicariously liable".

 

Unless there is somebody else who disagrees.

 

For example if the adviser stole your wallet with £300 inside it from your jacket in a pub,the employer would NOT be liable.This is common sense.

 

2.Regarding the £200 you should double check this information with Standard Life before accepting what the solicitor has said at face value.I am not saying the solicitor is telling a load of porkies but he could have been misinformed by his clients - the company you are after! Either check your own mortgage paperwork or if needed request a DPA from Standard Life.

 

3.I would not issue a LBA yet because:

 

if your case ends up in court and there is paperwork from the FSA floating around,it will look like you have not tried to resolve the dispute without court action - a judge would frown on this.Court action is your LAST RESORT solution here because it is within the FSA's powers to get your money refunded.Of course if you get no joy,you would have no option then but to get redress through the courts.

 

Anyway,speak to the FSA first and if in doubt keep us posted on the feedback from the FSA so you can decide with the help of the forum what to do no later than around the date you were planning to issue the LBA on 1/6/06.This way no time will be wasted.

 

I hope you find the information and opinions useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

All the best!

[lillboy]

Re £200 pounds fee

 

I have a copy of the terms of business letter for the mortgage with standard life

It lists on that a £200 pounds finders fee.

We paid this £200 to advisor.

When one of the directors came to our house he wanted to take all our copies of finacial papers to rebiuld their files because the defendant had gained entry into their office and removed all of his clients files. On looking through our paperwork it was the advisor the said this fees should not be applicable to the mortgage offer.

I would not let him take the files but let him have our policy no.s in order to get there own copies direct from the companies. my gut feeling is that the company have no details of previous mortgage details only details of current policies and loans we have.

 

i will be contacting FSA today i take there is a complaints Dept.

[pmhread]

Well done for not letting him take your files. Sneaky little so and so's will try anything.

[lillboy]

Spoke to Consumer Helpline @FSA

I get the feeling there not realley interested.

His knowledge of the internal compliance procedures totally lost him.

After explaining the situation serveral times to the help desk he does not feel they can do anything without it it being investigated. they are reluctant to investigate this because it has legal inplications. Lost Me There.

 

I asked him to get someone to clarify thier role into regulating the finacial services in order to raise a complaint against a company.

 

they say they will get back to me, I am not holding my Breath.:o

 

i got the fealing it is going to be difficult to get them to investigate my claims

 

they did put me onto the ombusman ill try that now:grin:

[surreyscouse]

I personally wouldn't bother with the ombudsman. They take ages and really only act as a mediator and can only make recommendations.

 

The company will have a professional indemnity policy and if they are prudent enough a policy that covers employee dishonesty, I can't believe they haven't thought of just passing details onto the insurers and letting them deal with it.

 

Also, are you telling me that the director/company did not do random audits on his staffs files to check that he was compliant with FSA regulations, can't believe that !

 

Also, I wouldn't bother waiting for the company to be successful in court as it will take the bloke years to pay the money back to his company.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Lillboy,I have read your posts and this is what I suggest you do:

 

1.Double check the figure of £200 with Standard Life so you can determine if you are entitled to get a refund of this amount as well.When you receive a reply you should post it here so we can give you our opinions.

 

2.As Surreyscouse said,the FSA take a month of Sundays to get their act together - have used them on an unrelated dispute with a credit card company.I only got positive feedback when I threatened to take the bank to court.I could have done this 1 year earlier and possibly been in a better position!Also,criminal enquiries take ages -and something that really is not your problem.

 

3.Issue a letter before action and then if no positive result - refund of your money -SUE! it is as simple as that!But as I mentioned in point 1 above - make sure if you are entitled to this £200 or not - double check - so that you claim the correct amount of money owed.

 

Although,there is nothing stopping you suing the company twice should the need arise!

 

However,in my view it is better to get it "over and done with" in one claim.

 

I hope you find this information/suggestions useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[lillboy]

Re £200

The £200 hundren pounds is listed in my mortgage proposal written by the finacial advisor he has listed this as a finders fee.

In this letter it later explains how the advisor get paid, it states that standard life pay him £165.84 for placing the mortgage with them, it also goes onto state how commision is paid to the company from the insurers £368.81 initially then £.51 per month from month 49 till end of term, Mortgage Payment Protection initial payment £160.00 then £.26 per month from month 49 till the end of term.

 

I agree everyone has to earn a living but in my calculation the company has made £694.65 and the advisor has made another £200. Surely the company coulds afford to reduce company revenue down to £494.65 and keep the customer happy and make another £694.65 in 14 Months time when i am out of my redemption period.

 

The letter from the mortgaqge advisor never mentions the £200 finders fee again.

The £200 finders fee in not mentioned in any of the mortgage documentation from standard life.

The Director who came to my house to rebiuld their files said that the company had never had a policy of charging finders fees or booking fees, i work purley on commision from the lenders & insurers.

they are denying these fees where paid because they do not have any of my records from previous morgage applications prior to 2004 because the advisor stole all the records. They are guessing at what the £200 was listed at.

Well now they proberbly know if they are users of this site (Hi Steve & Kevin).

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Lillboy,having read your last post I tend to agree with Surreyscouse that it is mighty strange that no audits by the gaff have been done and files missing more in my view for convenience and fear of self-incrimination mainly by both the police and regulator.

 

I can conclude and in my view:

 

1.You should be able to claim the £200 also because:

 

a.according to what the gaff told you that the company generates profits from fees from lenders and insurances etc ONLY.In otherwords,you were made to pay a finder fee that should not have been paid by yourself in the first place.

 

b.this contradicts what the company's solicitor has told you - like I said in a previous post he has more than likely been misinformed.

 

All this should be mentioned in your "Statement of Claim".

 

2.If you want "teach the company" a lesson I would suggest that you double check your payment protection terms and conditions and if cheaper switch to another company- do not tell the company that you are doing this just do it but of course not at the expense of losses on your behalf.

 

3.If you change insurance companies -this way the company will lose more revenue and in my view it more than deserves this for defrauding its clients.Also,this shows the company that you have contempt for the treatment you have received from the company and hits it where it hurts - in their pockets!

 

I hope you find this information/suggestions useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!