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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Soulfish v Woolwich


Soulfish
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After spending the last 6 months reading up on the unlawful bank charges, I'm going after the Woolwich on behalf of my mum for any and all bank charges they've claimed against her.

 

I'm also severely tempted to go after contractual interest at their unauthorised overdraft rate of 27.5%.

 

Sent the Data Protection Act request on 5th Jan 2007 and have just received a statement of charges in the post this morning (Sat 27th Jan 2007). The statement only shows charges from Apr 2001 - Dec 2006, so I'm going to send a letter later asking for any other information that they may be holding (and like others have done, if they say they don't have it ask them when and how it was destroyed) as I'd also like to reclaim anything prior to 2001 (I've read a lot about the statute of limitations and as many others feel that it doesn't apply in this case).

 

Woolwich handily totaled the amount and from April 2001 - Dec 2006 the charges come to £8,337.33!

 

Adding on contractual interest pushes this claim up to around £16k-£17k, which pushes it into the multitrack, and of course more risk. Then there's the pre-2001 bank charges that we're going to reclaim, which if they're at a similar level to the post-2001 charges would equate to approx. £14000, and once again adding contractual interest onto that would put it at over £100k!

 

I need to decide how I want to proceed with reclaiming the charges. I'm almost certainly going to split it into pre and post 2001 charges, but I'm unsure if I should keep each of those claims as one big lump, split them into smaller claims or possibly just limit each claim. Anyone have any suggestions, comments or advice?

 

If anyone out there has anything that could possibly help (regarding the statue of limitations, contractual interest etc) then it would also be greatly appreciated :).

 

John

Edited by Soulfish
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Having finally managed to get some time free to calculate the charges properly turns out that the total for the last 6 years with contractual interest is actually £13,549.66. Less then I'd originally estimated as the charges weren't as spread out as I was expecting.

 

Sending the prelim letter tomorrow with the schedule of charges :)

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Hi Soulfish

 

I'm pretty much at the same level as yourself but stuck!! I would love to help you and maybe someday down the line i can. I have read alot on this site but am so stuck and because you do really seem to understand the charge element on this, guess what???, i'm lookin for your help!!!!!

 

Going by what i received from the Woolwich i'm just so confused about the interest. If you have a look on my thread you'll understand.

 

Hope you can help and sorry to interrupt your thread!!! :-|

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  • 1 month later...

Unfortunately I've been very busy recently with family members going into hospital so didn't have time to prepare and send the LBA on the 14th February.

However just got an offer of £1,000 from Barclay's, so will be sending the rejection letter and the LBA out early next week :).

 

Total claim with compound interest now stands at £13,860.50.

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Forgot to add that I'm going to be sending off a DPA non-compliance LBA. Woolwich have only released the last 6 years worth of bank statements, and haven't responded to my request for the rest of the statements (and a copy of the signed contract) made more than 40 days ago.

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  • 2 months later...

Filed the court claim on the 23rd April, and have just received Barclays/Woolwich defense. Its a 15 point defense, and I've uploaded it to some webspace and linked to it below.

 

Not too sure if its there standard defense for contractual interest - it certainly makes reference to things that aren't in my claim (I didn't use the terms mutuality and reciprocity for instance).

 

Getting very close now!

 

Court Doc 1

Court Doc 2

Court Doc 3

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  • 1 month later...

Right - just got a letter from the Court this morning. The claim has been allocated to the Fast Track and I have a directions hearing on 15th August 2007 :)

 

Just uploading what the Judge has ordered so you can all have a read :)

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Hi Soulfish

 

The Defence is pretty standard. I take it you went the MCOL route which may be why the first Defence point mentions the lack of detail in your POC. Did you definitely send on your Schedule of Charges to the court and to Barclays following your online claim? If not, send a copy to the court that's now dealing with it plus one to Barc's Litigat Team at H/O... even if you've already done so, it wouldn't harm to re-send registered to Barcs with a covering letter quoting the Claim Number.

 

You may also want to write to or ring Lit Team to ask if they want to agree an out of court settlement now that you have a court date (unless they ask, don't specify it's only a directions/prelim).

3 Active Claims:

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Sole account) - Applied to lift court ordered Stay

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Joint account) - Awaiting court date

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Joint account) Pre-6 yrs- LBA sent.

 

 

3 Wins :

Barclays t/a The Woolwich (Data Protection Act breach costs & compliance)

HSBC (on behalf of brother)

Settled Out of Court - £3,874.76

Alliance & Leicester (on behalf of friend)

Settled Out of Court - £723.41

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I actually filled at the court since the claim is for around £14,000. Had about 50 pages including the PoC and 9 different appendices(!)

 

I've uploaded the order from the judge to here. From reading it appears that the Judge has ordered that Barclays have to disclose their costs before the hearing - am I reading it correctly?

 

John

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Oh Blimey John, bet the court staff loved you lol! Well in that case, it is quite clear that Barclay's have not provided a specific Defence to your claim and provided just one of several standard responses.

 

Great News on the Order - so okay it mean you have to send a copy bundle to B's (and to court) by 24th July.

 

It's well worth calling B's Lit now and seeking settlement. There is no way they will comply with the Order - yes, you've read it correctly that B's are required to justify their charges by way of a costs breakdown ie Disclosure.

 

They are basically stuffed thanks to this Order.

 

Ring them and let us know who said what :)

3 Active Claims:

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Sole account) - Applied to lift court ordered Stay

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Joint account) - Awaiting court date

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Joint account) Pre-6 yrs- LBA sent.

 

 

3 Wins :

Barclays t/a The Woolwich (Data Protection Act breach costs & compliance)

HSBC (on behalf of brother)

Settled Out of Court - £3,874.76

Alliance & Leicester (on behalf of friend)

Settled Out of Court - £723.41

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Spoken to both Krysta and Kate on the litigation team and apparently my case has been allocated to Paul Quinn. Trying to get hold of him at the moment but it seems like an impossible task!

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To save on the cost of unfruitful telephone calls, it might be a good idea to start bugging him by email as well :)

3 Active Claims:

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Sole account) - Applied to lift court ordered Stay

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Joint account) - Awaiting court date

Barclays Refund of Bank Charges (Joint account) Pre-6 yrs- LBA sent.

 

 

3 Wins :

Barclays t/a The Woolwich (Data Protection Act breach costs & compliance)

HSBC (on behalf of brother)

Settled Out of Court - £3,874.76

Alliance & Leicester (on behalf of friend)

Settled Out of Court - £723.41

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Thanks for that saintly_1 :). Just putting together my court bundle at the moment. Aiming to get it sent off quickly to force Barclays to settle sooner since the Judge has given them 3 weeks from the date they recieve my court bundle.

 

One quick question does anyone have any good threads for what extra to include in the court bundle when claiming for contractual interest? Haven't had time to have a good look just yet

 

Thanks,

 

John

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OK - I've found some stuff that Barclays sent through that I'd forgotten about and hadn't opened. Just looked today and want some peoples second opinions on it. Have a look here for more details.

 

Thanks,

 

John

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  • 10 months later...

Just had an intresting letter from the court regarding the stay.

 

It appears that the Judge has ordered the case to be stayed BUT also ordered Barclays to pay £2,000 a month to us until the claim is repaid?!?

 

Have a read of this and see if you reach the same conclusion :)

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Hi Everyone,

 

I've just received news about my Stay, and wanted to see what people made of it.

 

It appears that the Judge has ordered the case to be stayed (as I expected), but he also appears to have ordered the bank to pay £2,000/mo until the case is resolved or the full ammount being claimed is paid back.

 

Have a read of this letter to see what I mean.

 

Is my interpretation correct? Anything I should/shouldn't do? :)

 

Thanks,

 

John

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Well... without knowing any of the details, it is saying that you took them to court, and you are £2,000 per month better off, but you have to pay your own costs (mind you, I'm sure it's nowhere near 2 grand.. or I would hope not).

 

Only thing I suggest is to check your balance carefully up to and including the 31st July to make sure they pay, and in subsequent months, and if not... back to the court.

 

Nice result.. whatever the original problem was.

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Sorry I should have said! The letter from the court was regarding my claim against Barclays (see this thread) for bank charges and contractual interest).

 

It was/is stayed pending the high court test case, but the £2,000/mo payment is interesting considering I've yet to have my case properly heard by a Judge - last time I saw a Judge it was to be told my case was being stayed!

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2 threads merged to save the confusion.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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