Beyond 6 years

[progenic7]

Hi Ron,

 

im not sure i agree with you on that point as the CAB is specifically there for people that cant afford a solicitor surely ? i have been along to the CAB and two occasions and on both occasions they have given me legal advice, or advised me of my legal rights and the legal viewpoint on the subject matter.

Maybe the CAB varies from town to town but in Nottingham they give as much advice as you require. Of course i dont think the CAB could be relied upon in the same way as a solicitor as they are not actually legal experts.

[The Phantom]

Hi Ron,

 

im not sure i agree with you on that point as the CAB is specifically there for people that cant afford a solicitor surely ? i have been along to the CAB and two occasions and on both occasions they have given me legal advice, or advised me of my legal rights and the legal viewpoint on the subject matter.

Maybe the CAB varies from town to town but in Nottingham they give as much advice as you require. Of course i dont think the CAB could be relied upon in the same way as a solicitor as they are not actually legal experts.

It must vary from town to town, as the one I went to here in Devon sent me to "triage", a volunteer asseses your case and then decides what to do. If they think they can't help you they refer you to their legal experts but those experts will only help you if you qualify for legal aid. So you may as well go to a solicitor straight away if you can afford one or also if you qualify for lagal aid. There is no reason to see the CAb here really. I was totally gutted as I waited for a long time with a toddler in tow.

[Glenn UK]

glenn its from www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/enterprise/inquiries/bdb/bdb-ScottishClearingBanks.pdf

 

Contradicted here though

 

Westminster Bank Ltd -v- Hilton (1926) 43 TLR 1241926

HL

Lord AtkinsonBanking

1 Citers

As against the money of the customer's in the banker's hands the relationship between banker and customer is that of principal and agent: "It is well established that the normal relation between a banker and his customer is that of debtor and creditor, but it is equally well established that quoad the drawing and payment of the customer's cheques as against money of the customer's in the banker's hands the relation is that of principal and agent. The cheque is an order of the principal's addressed to the agent to pay out of the principal's money in the agent's hands the amount of the cheque to the payee thereof."

 

Seems to me that the relationship between a bank and its customers is establsihed by the services they provide to that particualr customer.

 

Certainly a basic bank accounts would fall outside the fiduciary relationship.

 

If you have investments and mortgages then imho it would probalby be included.

 

Where the cheque account lies or with savings of the normal type as opposed to pensions and other investments im not sure.

 

Glenn

[Ron Baker]

Hi Ron,

 

im not sure i agree with you on that point as the CAB is specifically there for people that cant afford a solicitor surely ? i have been along to the CAB and two occasions and on both occasions they have given me legal advice, or advised me of my legal rights and the legal viewpoint on the subject matter.

Maybe the CAB varies from town to town but in Nottingham they give as much advice as you require. Of course i dont think the CAB could be relied upon in the same way as a solicitor as they are not actually legal experts.

 

Hi Progenic

I work for the CAB and its NACAB policy that all CAB cannot give legal advice. They may identify the unfairness of certain acts, or unlawful acts, and relay to you were there has been unlawful acts...but they should not give legal advice, they will advice you to seek legal advice if they believe you need it, and its most likely to end up in the courts.The reason is they can be sued if they get it wrong.

 

They should give you the options of doing it yourself like ourselves in these case's with the banks, and the support of all its members, or get a legal help.

 

They may give you a list of 3 solicitors who advise on that particular subject as they have to be impartial, that’s NACAB’s policy.

 

Take care

 

Ron

[Ron Baker]

It must vary from town to town, as the one I went to here in Devon sent me to "triage", a volunteer asseses your case and then decides what to do. If they think they can't help you they refer you to their legal experts but those experts will only help you if you qualify for legal aid. So you may as well go to a solicitor straight away if you can afford one or also if you qualify for lagal aid. There is no reason to see the CAb here really. I was totally gutted as I waited for a long time with a toddler in tow.

 

They would be specialist advisors that are funded by legal service for the likes of debt management, welfare rights issues, housing issues, employment issues, again they cannot give legal advice.

 

OK guys and dolls lets get back to this topic of claiming back our money beyond 6 years please.

 

Ron

[progenic7]

Ron point taken

 

Glenn yeah i agree and indeed have thought this for a while now, however i personally dont think it would make too much difference to many peoples cases. But clearly from a point of law a standard bank or credit card argreement doesnt fall within the remit of a fiduciary relationship.

I know the alternative argument of claiming based on a fiduciary relationship and purley out of mutuality on paper seems alright but in reality IMHO is a weak argument anyway. I would advise that its one best avoided in most situations (apart from as Glenn said in the case of a directorship, possibly a mortgage situation, investor or trustee arangement) other than that i dont think it would hold up in a court.

 

sorry i have lost the plot where this thread was going slightly, maybe back onto the limitation act perhaps ?

 

maybe someone can steer us in the right direction again !

[paulwlton]

No & it's best if you cite it in your POC.......However if you find more 'just before' the hearing you can bring it to court (with copies for the defence & judge) & add it to your argument.........It's called an ambush......a game the banks like to play

 

I like that one John.

 

Regarding the mere silence doesn't constitute concealment, i argued that the Bank wasn't and isn't silent, but has actively concealed, and is still actively concealing by misleading me into believing the charges were fair and reasonable.

 

Our problem at the moment is that the defence will claim the charges are fair and reasonable.

 

I think we'll be in a stronger position when the OFT report is released in March

[JonCris]

Hi Ron

 

CAB's do give legal advice insofar as some solicitors by attending legal clinics in their local cab give advice on the basis of pro bono.

[Ron Baker]

JonCris Hi m8,

Don't understand that as the Cab’s have to be impartial.

 

But on saying that…. now many years ago the CAB that I work in had a solicitor that came in once a week, but I believe that was stopped because some other solicitors argued that how can you the CAB be "impartial" when you are giving work or favouring one solicitor practise and not others, as they could get work out of these interviews.

That’s the policy in the Cab were I work anyway…. only to give the clients 3 names of solicitors that have a LA franchise on their particular problems

Take care

Ron

[JonCris]

Impartial to whom? to other solicitors then they could have taken in turns to provide a 'FREE' service bit like cutting off your face (& yes I mean face) to spite the face.

 

It may be the case now but it didn't use to be. Also some of the practices doing pro bono didn't offer LA (& your going to find LAS contracted practices as hard to find as hens teeth soon)

[progenic7]

Joncris,

 

i must agree thats why i commented previously as when i went along to the CAB (about 15 years ago) thats exactly what they did, ie gave me legal advice. They told me exactly what my legal standing was and how i could do something about it.

 

Though it seems now days that things have changed somewhat

[JonCris]

For the worse apparently as some, but not all, of the legal advice from some local cabs being posted here leaves a lot to be desired

[Guest Battleaxe]

I would not go to the CAB for 'legal' advice. Evenif I could get an urgent appointment

[freddyj]

hi,

 

a lot of this legal stuff went over my head, just checking to see if Ron won his case going back beyond 6 years. also do the banks keep data beyond 6 years?

 

thanks

[Parkvale]

freddyj,

Yes Nat West do keep data beyond 6 years.Another thread to look at is :

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/3598-do-you-have-charges.html

[Ron Baker]

hi,

 

a lot of this legal stuff went over my head, just checking to see if Ron won his case going back beyond 6 years. also do the banks keep data beyond 6 years?

 

thanks

 

Waiting for the court date freddyj.... going to submit more case law on the day spring the trap hopefully... i will be giving the Halifax and the judge copies

 

Ron

[Ron Baker]

Ok Lady’s and Gentlemen, the Main event has been schedule for the 30th May 07@ Liverpool County Court in front of District Judge Fitzgerald... would love to spring a trap on the Halifax with case law... Kleinwort Benson.... plus Cave v Robinson plus.... N Joachimson V Swiss Bank Corporation.

But after speaking with the court today it’s a gamble if the judge will allow it, and the fact that Halifax may cry foul, like I would if at the 11th hour they produced case law to the courts in their defence (that’s if they have any) and like myself... would request that it’s not admissible and the judge not to allow it or to allow an adjournment.

 

Progenc7 m8 can you e mail that information when you have time.

 

Ron

[Parkvale]

Ron Baker,

At last Ron you can now enter the battlefield. A strange sort of relief after all the waiting.Iam still waiting. 6 weeks since the court received my AQ. Frustrating , a bit like you ready for battle. Keep us posted.

[Guest bong]

Ron I think you would be interested in this case against Halifax for charges back to 1991, just settled out of court today http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/44416-wilkins-halifax-20.html#post661185

[Ron Baker]

Ron I think you would be interested in this case against Halifax for charges back to 1991, just settled out of court today http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/44416-wilkins-halifax-20.html#post661185

 

Thanks Bong

[progenic7]

Ron you will have a handy little hamper about 8pm this evening mate, dont worry i have not forgetten about ya !

 

Johnny

[Ron Baker]

Ron you will have a handy little hamper about 8pm this evening mate, dont worry i have not forgetten about ya !

 

Johnny

 

Progenic got them, thank you mate, not sure to send snippets of all the caselaw to the Halifax that i now have... and to give them the option to settle before it goes to court,anyone have any comments please.

 

Ron

[progenic7]

ron,

 

sorry im not sure how far you are with your claim, but whether your at prelim or LBA or indeed N1 stage, i would be slightly reserved in what you send and dont give away too much too early on.

If they want to play hard ball then let them, if they prefer things a little tamer then also let them, as long as one basic rule is followed through out.

That is rule is ofcourse, you get 100% of what your asking for and you are 100% happy with it. However remember that when you get to court proceedings stage, that iif they offer you 100% of what your asking then you have to accept otherwise you will have your claim struck out.

 

Best of luck mate

[Ron Baker]

Ok Lady’s and Gentlemen, the Main event has been schedule for the 30th May 07@ Liverpool County Court in front of District Judge Fitzgerald... would love to spring a trap on the Halifax with case law... Kleinwort Benson.... plus Cave v Robinson plus.... N Joachimson V Swiss Bank Corporation.

But after speaking with the court today it’s a gamble if the judge will allow it, and the fact that Halifax may cry foul, like I would if at the 11th hour they produced case law to the courts in their defence (that’s if they have any) and like myself... would request that it’s not admissible and the judge not to allow it or to allow an adjournment.

 

Progenc7 m8 can you e mail that information when you have time.

 

Ron

 

Progenic posted this a while back.... at the final stage now, as i've said... in two minds to spring the trap or again give them little sippets to get them to just give it up ?

 

Ron

[progenic7]

ron,

 

ok i understand, well its entirely up to you really if i was you i think i would be trickling snippets to them just to see if they bit or not, i really cant see them wanting to go to court even over a time barred issue.

Me myself would howevr hold onto a certain amount of info for the day though, and maybe as we have said before be ready to counter with a little trap of your own.

 

get your arguments straight though just incase they do decide to go along on the day, if you argue the case well enough the limitation act will pose no real problems i dont think.

 

Johnny