ScottishPower

[mutzi]

We get dual fuel from ScottishPower and have done for about 2 years now. On the 20th April we got a letter from SP telling us there is an outstanding balance of £800+ on the account and that it can be paid by increasing (more than doubling) the direct debit payments for either 12 or 18 months. This we cannot afford.

 

Obviously we weren't happy about this. Phoned them up and the woman on the other end explained that the estimated bills they had been sending were too low. However the revised bill they had sent was composed of actual readings left on their automated phone system by us every few months and a couple of readers they had sent round (marked on the bill as A and C rather than E). When challenged to explain why they hadn't used these readings in the first place she got very defensive. Supposedly the problem is partially our fault for not chasing them up about sending estimates rather than using the real figures. Surely if we provide them with readings then its their responsibility? The only other option given was a pre-payment meter, which costs more per unit. Why should we pay extra for your mistake we argued? There was nothing more she could do.

 

So, after consulting the great and wise google I phoned energywatch (who were very helpful) and lodged a complaint with them. They'll get in contact with SP who are supposed to reply to us within 12 working days.

 

Just today however when scanning their T&C's I noticed this:

13.4 If information on the quantity of Fuel supplied by us is not available we may bill you on the basis of estimated readings for your likely consumption. When that information is available, we will make the appropriate adjustment, if any, to your next bill.

Surely this is a breach on contract on their part then. We have written evidence of their possesion of actual readings for all billing periods in the revised bill. Can this be used in any fashion against them?

[Guest Lueeze]

Im not too sure what can be done about this, you have contacted the right people though!

 

The problem is, they will argue that you used this amount, and therefore have to pay for it.

 

If the readings were taken into account your bill would have probabally doubled anyway.

 

They have run your account badly, but I really dont know if you will be able to write any of it off...I suspect SP will carry on billing you for the £800.

 

Let us know how you get on!

 

Lou x

[jonni2bad]

They should be willing to accept a repayment plan for the outstanding amount.

 

You would need to agree this figure with them, and my initial guess is that they would be looking to clear the outstanding amount within 12 months max - meaning you would need to be offering around £66 / month on top of your current payments.

 

If this is not going to be achieved because your finances are too tight, you may need to fill in an income and expenditure sheet - the CCCS will help you with this, freephone 0800 138 1111 - and will also give more detailed advice.

 

If it gets to that stage you can also get back to me and I will offer advice from personal experience.

 

If S.P. play hard ball, then using their terms and condition as you showed above may be a weapon for you to use.

 

John

[Guest Lueeze]

£800+ on the account and that it can be paid by increasing (more than doubling) the direct debit payments for either 12 or 18 months. This we cannot afford.

 

 

I dont think they can afford much extra to pay off the amount owing...and SP have already offered for it to be payed over a period of time.

 

Sorry we cannot help more, but stick to your guns and see what happens, they may offer a discount to you, but Its unlikely!

 

Good Luck

 

Lou xx

[diddled]

Only a few weeks ago a friend of mine experienced very similar problems with Scottish Power. SP hadn't read her meter for over 2 years, but they sent her a bill for a few hundred pounds. Whilst the meter readings were more or less right the bill represented Scottish Power's price increases that had come into force during the period her meter remained unread.

When she originally changed to Scottish Power everything was arranged over the phone, and she was not provided with, or asked to sign a contract. She was quoted the price per unit and future price increases were never even mentioned.

When my friend refused to pay this bill SP told her that until this debt is paid they will prevent her from changing supplier.

She is now in the process of changing her energy supplier to Seeboard Power, as SP do not have the Power to block such a move.

[jonni2bad]

Quote from CCCS website

 

 

Gas and electricity companies must take notice of customers in need and should allow you to pay back what you owe at a rate you can afford. If you require further help and advice you can contact us on 0800 138 1111.

[installspark]

@ Mutzi

 

Hi there, I work as a supervisor for a well known supplier, but not Scottish Power.

 

Whilst there is a responsiblility on a customer's part to check the reads used to produce a bill are accurate, there is also the responsibility on the suppliers part to ensure that the account is billed accurately and correctly. This can be done as a catch up bill from previous estimates as has happened here, however it would appear that Scottish Power have chosen to ignore the actual reads provided by both you and a metering agency and are in breach of their own terms and conditions.

 

What should have occurred, and although I base this on my employers policies it is generic throughout the industry, is you should have been rebilled to the actual reads on the day these reads were received, this probably would have resulted in a small catch up bill on the account. This should have occurred each time actual reads were provided following an estimate. Further to this had Scottish Power used these actual reads then future estimates would have been more accurate.

 

Although all suppliers T&C's state that you must pay for what you have used, in this instance I would not expect a customer to be responsible for 100% of the amount of underbilling as they had taken all reasonable steps to ensure that a correct read was provided and used.

 

This complaint should have gone to a supervisor or manager to deal with as they have the authority to reduce the amount owing and negotiate a longer period of repayment on direct debit.

 

With the involvement of Energywatch you will on probability find that Scottish Power will agree to spread the cost of the underbilling over a longer period of time, and can be ordered to do so by Energywatch. However Energywatch, as yet, do not have any power to order compensation to be paid.

 

@ diddled

 

Currently there are only 2 valid reasons a supplier can object to and block a change of supply, these are incorrect technical details and debt over 28 days.

 

Your friend may well find that they cannot change supplier as SP will object as they have issued a demand for payment which remains unpaid after 28 days, and will at some point in the process receive a letter from the proposed supplier stating they have received an objection. However if your friend is on a direct debit scheme SP cannot block the change of supply as per recent Ofgem/Energywatch rulings in 2005.

 

The objection to change of supply where there is an oustanding debt over 28 days will eventually not be allowed, although I do not have a timescale for this, it is known that Ofgem/Energywatch are looking into this.

[mutzi]

Thanks for all your replies, will wait and see what SP say in their reply before doing anything else.

[diddled]

My friends problem first arose when she asked SP to change her onto DD scheme instead of having to to buy tokens to feed her electric meter. She was already paying for gas on SP DD scheme. SP never bothered read or update her electric meter when they increased their prices, but claimed that she owed them money.

When you pay as you go, how can you lawfully incur a debt

[installspark]

My friends problem first arose when she asked SP to change her onto DD scheme instead of having to to buy tokens to feed her electric meter. She was already paying for gas on SP DD scheme. SP never bothered read or update her electric meter when they increased their prices, but claimed that she owed them money.

When you pay as you go, how can you lawfully incur a debt

 

The only way there can be a debt on a prepayment account is if the meter was installed originally to claim a debt owing on an account. if this does not apply then I would strongly recommend speaking to a manager at SP, and if this does not get a satifactory response contact Energywatch on 08459 06 07 08.

[diddled]

The alleged debt on the meter appears to have resulted from Scottish Power's price increases. Scottish Power failed to reset the meter's tariffs when price increases came into effect.

[installspark]

SP should have ensured that their prepay meters were reset to the current prices in a timely manner, where I work in a situation like this an appointment would be made to reset the meter and the theoretical debt on the account would be written off as it would be our mistake as the customer pays as they use.

[mutzi]

Recieved a reply to our complaint last week:

 

The content is very patronising.

 

We're so sorry blah......

 

Until recently, no action was taken to correct the electricity account using actual readings. Meter readers have called regularly and we have an actual reading from you in April 2006 (they have readings for the last two years according to the revised bill.) I can only apologise it has taken such a long time to update your account with the correct readings. If in the future you recieve another estimated bill, I suggest you call the number on the bill (WE DID!), give actual readings and ask for an amended bill to be issued. (The automated woman will understand this request??)

 

...In the interest of good customer relations I have reduced your balance by 15%...

 

...I can offer you 24 months to repay the balance...

 

...Any default in repayment can result in the full outstanding balance being requested...

 

 

I'm satisfied with the reduction and extended repayment period but still have a few niggles.

 

They have not addressed the issue which caused the problem in the first place. Is there a way we can actually refuse the accept any sort of estimated bill in the future, such that they are obligated to accept our readings or collect their own every few months?

 

The sentance on defaulting payments. Does this constitute a credit agreement, bearing in mind that the outstanding balance is their fault? I'm just not too sure about this point.

[mutzi]

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