donnalou vs lloyds tsb

[GuidoT]

If SCM do not send back the AQ then it does not matter that much, the court can decide the track and directions using their own discretion and based on your AQ. SCM usually return the AQ at the last minute.

 

SCM do not usually send the claimant a copy of their AQ. I think the reason for this is that they ask for a stay and do not want to prevent the judge granting such.

 

I would phone the court a few days after the AQ is due in and ask if the settlement box has been ticked on SCM's AQ and then post up here.

 

See my thread for details of the stay time wasting, I caught it too late:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47207-guido-t-lloyds-tsb-3.html

[donnalou]

thanks guido i have phoned the court and they have sent back their aq i havebeen told to wait till next week and phone back if i havent heard anything in regards to my case

i do have another question tho i have had an email from motley fool they spoke to mr brennan and was going on about aggravated something or other anyway a year ago i remortgaged my house so there was money in my account i used to pay off all credit cards finance and such so that i no longer had any debt other than my mortgage which left me enough to pay the bills but that month the bank charged me £245 in charges nd as far as i can see my account was clear the month bfore and thy took the charge even tho i had done nothing wrong which meant that my secondmortgage payment dd did not go as thy did not pay it (this being the reason i started this) i have had this on my mortgage account for 12 months now and it has seriously affected my credit rating and theres not alot i can do about it as the company im with wont send out a payment slip and will only accept payment by card which i dont have anymore couldi pursue this matter and claim damages from the bank

[donnalou]

court date is fri 13th july fingers crossed for me

[darling1]

My date was in April also Friday 13th!! - so good luck - I won!! They settled the night before, a bit scary. So keep the faith!!

I also was given £750 much earlier on in the process,, infact the day that I filed in court! So the amount that I was claming was "wrong" on the AQ, but I informed the court of the award by letter, not as part of my AQ and not as an ammendment. I had the letter about the payment from LTSB as part of my "bundle" that I was going to take with me to court.

My case was for a allocation of track - because the amount was well over 5K.

Good luck, my son has a court date with HSBC on 27th July I have been doing all the work for him, as he has given up hope now! So pretty much at the same stage as you

Darling1

[donnalou]

right i need help ive only just noticed that i need to get evidence bundle together by the 28th of this month im in process of printing my statements and ive got charge deatails which are

 

 

on the back of all letters i have it reads

charges for exceeding an agreed limit

when you go overdrawn without agreeing it with us first we will charge you £30 we will charge you this amount each day your overdraft increases we will do this upto a maximum of £90 each month

 

when you borrow without our agreeement we will charge you at the lloyds tsb unauthorised overdraft rate this is currently 2.20% per month this works out at an equivalant annual rate of 29.85%

 

 

when we are not able to pay cheques direct debits or standing orders we normally charge £35 for each item of £10 or more we have not paid

 

 

now i plan to go through and highlight the returned direct debit where they charged me £35 per item where if they had just paid it and i had gone over my overdraft the most i would have paid is £90 instead of some of the higher fees they charged me

 

i really need any help you can give me as soon as poss in regards to any regulations and such that will help me win this case should they defend or worse the judge does what the birmingham judge did

 

is there anything else that will help or i need to add

 

please please help

[Mistermind]

(Lloyds appear not to be defending)

[donnalou]

hi mastermind ty very much for your help the evidence pack has to be in week tomorrow to all parties but because of the bank holiday and my stupid oversight i have to get it to them by this fri

so they can look at my evidence before the 13th of july which is my court date

having said that ive not recieved theirs either yet

ive been busy this morning printing off all statements and finding/printing all correspondance between us and trying to locate consumer contracts regs the unfair contract terms act and the supply of goods and services act to pinpoint what i need to know and what is relevant i will also use the information you have provided me with is there anything else i need to do ?

[broke dave]

Have you looked at the sticky - Got a Court Date. This should tell you everything you need for your court bundle.

[Mistermind]

Morning Donna, just reread and understood your bundle submission deadline is Monday week, hearing on 13th July. In these days of dynamic developments 8 weeks is a long time. If your bundle did not contain 100% of the new arguments you prepare to use in court, I would have thought it would be allowed.

 

Judge Cooke spent over an hour with Kevin, in Kevin's words "taking him apart". Evidently Kevin did not expect a defence or even a hearing to materialise and was underprepared. Unless all parties are overtaken by new events over the next 8 weeks, I believe you need to prepare to meet a solid defence, so would need to understand the 2 points of Lloyds defence (no contractual breach, fee not unreasonable), and all the reasons supporting Judge Cooke's ruling, as listed in the 14-page Approved Judgement dated 15 MAY 2007 found from Google:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_05_07_bank_charge.pdf

 

(Para 27) Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 Sections 3 and 4

 

The judge ruled these were irrelevant as they would only apply in case of negligence or breach of contract by the bank.

 

(Para 28 ) Supply of Goods and Service Act 1982, Section 15

 

The judge ruled Kevin did not prove the charge amounts were unreasonable, significantly Kevin agreed that the charges were comparable to what he would have faced in other banks. I have suggested bringing in the Dublin banks T&C links for contrast. CAG Mods might or might not suggest bringing in the Cynthesys £2 costings figures obtained by covert investigation. I understood Kevin to say in his thread that the judge threw out material from the House of Commons and OFT re this issue of a "reasonable" price.

 

(Para 40) Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

 

Ruled inapplicable because of the word "adequacy", i.e. the court was empowered to rule as "unfair for being too low" but not "unfair for being too high".

 

(Para 46) Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1994, Reg 3(2)

 

Submission via Tom Brennan letter re House of Lords decision in

Director General of Fair Trading v First National Bank PLC (2001) ukhl 52.

Judge Cooke ruled this had the same effect as Reg 6 of the 1999 Regulations but was irrelevant as it involved a breach of contract where Kevin's case was ruled as not so.

 

On Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, the effects of the Dublin banks overt £3 charge contrast and Cynthesys covert findings have not been tested in court. Unless this is any good, then the entire case turns on whether breach of contract has occurred, otherwise no 1910 Dunlop v Garage precedent, (and potentially a real problem proving unlawful charge in the case of banks, cards remaining ok?). Hence the frantic CAG-wide search for T&C.

 

In the unlikely event that by 13th July the legal arguments are still raging and unresolved, I suggest you will need to go in armed with counter arguments, understanding all the principles and rulings to date in case you run into a solid Lloyds defence quoting previous rulings. As for contents of your bundle on Monday week I suggest you SEARCH, ADVANCED SEARCH, all threads started by GaryH.

 

Best of luck!

[donnalou]

im going to be going through the judges decision with my dad with a fine tooth comb i will have to refer to the acts listed in my n1 form as thiswas part of my original argument

my dad is very clever with legal stuff and ive no doubt that we can come up with something

weve been discussing the fact that i can mention the fact they have chosen on numerous occasions to charge me at the higher rate rather than the lower that also has a maximum figure

but this is not whats going to win me the case i will be going with this as if it is going to court and will put up a strong case

i feel kev maybe took the stance like many of us including me till that hearing that we would be paid out before the court date no one could have predicted that an oversight by scm would end up this

im sure that if scm had not forgotten/overlooked the case this would have been another settlement before the date of the case

im also gonna be looking into my rights in way of their attendance or lack of and see if theres anyway that if it gets to court without settlement and they dont turn up what if anything can i rely upon is there anything leagal that says anything about non attendance of defence

has anyone sent or posted tsbs t&cs yet as i desperatley need these for a select account

i really want to get this right but because of my stupidity and complacentness have little time

[donnalou]

also can i make the bank provide me with a copy of my signed contract with me agreeing to and them giving the t&cs as this is personal data relating to me i believe they would have to provide within 21 days which would be too late to put into bundle but in theory have before the court date

if they sent it to me would i be able to use this info then or would it not be counted as its not with bundle

if i asked for it and they failed to provide could i mention on the day that i have asked for it and not been provided

 

it would seem i really need to have ths info

could i ask and would i be granted extra time for bundle to be produced whilst i wait as the hearing only on the 13th july ?

[Mistermind]

(Lloyds appear not to be defending)

[passivenomore]

Just subscribing!

 

Best of luck donnalou... I'm slightly behind you timescale-wise, so very interested in the points you're making!

[donnalou]

thanks mistermind youve raised very good points

and i have found terms and conditions which i can add to my bundle ive posted on evidence needed thread

will keep everyone posted

oh and im considering going to brighton to hand deliver bundle to scm

[Mistermind]

(Lloyds appear not to be defending)

[donnalou]

I NEED HELP to clarify what i need in my bundle

i have printed off 3 copies of my statements

i have photocopied and have 3 copies of my terms and conditions

i have printed 3 copies of the oft front page section 1 and section 4.21

i have printed 3 copies of the mcnamara interview

i have printed 3 copies of the letter gary posted

i have printed 3 copies of my witness statement

 

is there anything else i need ie copys of the acts im quoting???

is there anything i need to do to them before they are sent ie highlight the charges and the term in my t&c about broken agreement

or will i do this for myself and just let the court and the bank read through and refer at time of hearing

i understand i have to number each page put into sections is that correct?

[Mistermind]

(Lloyds appear not to be defending)

[jomish]

As I used the standard bundle I am now worried I will lose my case. I cannot submit any more material to court. Am I allowed to take the new material suggested with me anyway?

[donnalou]

As I used the standard bundle I am now worried I will lose my case. I cannot submit any more material to court. Am I allowed to take the new material suggested with me anyway?

 

 

 

as far as i know any eveidence that you take in addition would be ruled as inadmissable as the bank wouldnt have seen the evidence

if you do go to court and the bank turned up they would want it ruled out

 

have the bank sent you a copy of their bundle?

if not it would be the same for you if it goes to court you could have it ruled inadmissable as you would not be able to contend their defence

 

contact your local court they will give you the info you need if the bank hasnt sent the bundle tell them and ask them what route you need to take

as i will be doing this myself my bundle had to be with the court and the bank for monday 28th of this month but because of the bank hols i had to get it there yesterday(fri 25th) and i have not recieved theirs

i will let you know tuesday what happens once ive spoken to the court

 

i hope i have helped you

[Mistermind]

(Lloyds appear not to be defending)

[Mistermind]

(Lloyds appear not to be defending)

[GuidoT]

It really does depend on the judge, some will allow and some will not. If crucial then an adjournment could be requested to give the other side time to consider the new evidence.

[donnalou]

i think if people are sending their t&cs like myself it should appear in a library for others to use unfortunatley i dont have a scanner ot else i would have put mine here for all to see

people who have to get their bundles in very soon will be feeling frustrated right now knowing if their case goes to court they dont have this info

luckily for me i did have it

can we please have them put in a post as quick as possible i would hate to think another case could be lost due to this info not being available

[nicsussex]

i think if people are sending their t&cs like myself it should appear in a library for others to use unfortunatley i dont have a scanner

 

Could you send a PM to GaryH - I'm sure he would be delighted to receive a copy that he could post here

[donnalou]

Could you send a PM to GaryH - I'm sure he would be delighted to receive a copy that he could post here

 

 

ive sent it to him by post he should have it by now