2024-01-11 Harrow PCN - Stopping in a Box Junction

[onestressedwoman]

 I Just got this ticket saying I was in a yellow box !

I never drive into boxes if I cant pass them likewise never drive in bus lanes not even when not operational.

The images they have sent me are a total joke

they say there is a video but this is not online and I have to apply in writing if I want to see it before appeal ! 

What do you think

My car is the one with the L shaped rear lights - They also have noted that my car make is unknown ????

 

pixs.pdf

[Michael Browne]

Is this a TfL pcn or local council? If TfL, they will put pcn on hold while they send you a copy ofthe video.

The stills in the pcn are supposed to be the ones that show a contravention took place. I can't see either car in contravention, so  you must get the video. It is the council's primary and only evidence

[onestressedwoman]

It was taken from a bus lane camera I think does that make it a tfl ticket?

Was sent on local council letterhead

- agreed no contravention here

in my opinion for a contravention to have of occurred then I would have had to sit in the box for the lights to change twice ???

[Michael Browne]

Since you only received the pcn today, I'd wait until Monday to see if they put the video online. Otherwise  reqiuest a copy,

The video is vital, without it you don't know if you have grounds to challenge it or not.

[Nicky Boy]

What was the exact wording on the letter?

Maybe upload it?

The video may or may not help.

I believe the Highway Code states that you must not enter the box unless the exit is clear.

So, yes you really need to see the full video.

[onestressedwoman]

Oh I thought I had attached them I will attach them now

I will have to see if they produce video as in the images on the PCN there is no contravention

 

 

 

 

 

2024-01-11 Harrow PCN - Stopping in a Box Junction.pdf

[dx100uk]

your exit was not clear. clearly states you stopped.

BUT regardless..you should not have entered the box junction unless your exit was clear.

following in a line of moving traffic is not an excuse.

as for:

23 hours ago, onestressedwoman said:

in my opinion for a contravention to have of occurred then I would have had to sit in the box for the lights to change twice ???

nope not true..wherever did you get that from...

[onestressedwoman]

DX 

 

My car is the one with the L shaped headlights I did not enter and I did pass straight through pictured before the box and after the box

[dx100uk]

so how are they saying you stopped??

as you say this video is going to be pivotal then ..

[onestressedwoman]

Exactly - the other car clearly was in the box maybe they recorded the wrong plate number as they have said make of car unknown - surely when running reg they get make and model

[dx100uk]

14 secs and 57secs timing of the two photos...

in those 43 seconds, you waited for the lights to turn green (poss twice?) but didnt move forward thru the box at all until there was enough room for you to completely exit the box (the 2nd photo?).

if so they are stuffed and time for an appeal via the correct forms.

dx

[onestressedwoman]

Be back to you once I and if I get Video but no contravention on images provided is there (confused face)

 

[Nicky Boy]

Agreed, the photos don't actually show a contravention. Ridiculous to issue a ticket on that evidence alone...

[onestressedwoman]

still no video uploaded to their site 

 

[onestressedwoman]

I received a response to request for video also asking them to stop the clock on my 14 days to pay/appeal as below: I THINK THEY ARE LOOKING FOR FOOTAGE UNDER THEIR BED 

Thank you for your email.  

This is a confirmation that we are placing your Notice on hold whilst we investigate the matter. 

We aim to respond to 90% of queries within 15 working days although at peak times this may not be possible to do. 

To enable us to fully deal with your enquiry, please ensure you quote your name, vehicle registration number and Penalty Charge Notice Number (beginning HR…)  

Kind regards  

Parking Appeals Team 

[dx100uk]

this is called a soft appeal

unless they find the Video and show you stopped, should be gameover.

in the past we've seen magical photos appear from xxx council which shows the car in the stop box with red tail lights showing ... these are not proof.

the video must be produced.

if all else fails and they produce no VDO evidence , you can still use the forms pe2/3

dx

 

[onestressedwoman]

I think its a total liberty I really do

They have issued a fine which is unproven yet are willing to put people through stress for no reason - if they cannot produce video prior to 28 days of alleged contravention the fine does not stand anyway does it ?

 

I know I am thick but forms pe2/3 ??? what are these

 

[dx100uk]

they have not issued a fine.. only a court can fine anyone, they have issued a PCN.

the forms are on the homepage of this local authority etc forum .

click the forum name link up the vey top of your thread

Local Authority Parking and Traffic Offences - Consumer Action Group

[onestressedwoman]

I've been logging on regularly to see if there is any update to this ticket 

Today 3 images have now been uploaded the 2 original ones and now the one attached.

The council said they would put this ticket on hold until which time evidence has been provided, however I have had no correspondence from the local authority I only found this other image because I logged on?

They appear not to have upheld the ticket as it now says I owe £130 

 

Yellow box.pdf

Edited February 21 by Nicky Boy
Redaction on PDF

[dx100uk]

clearly shows you following another car so your exit could not have been clear upon your entry to the box.

and if you stopped....

thats why the video is SOOO important. 

if you did stop, sadly you owe.

showing brake your lights on in a still from a video is not proof you stopped.

[onestressedwoman]

Agreed need the video

However should I just not appeal it now because they have raised the charge without informing me there is any more images to view and I also have it in writing that they would hold the ticket until the could provide evidence.

Also if it makes a difference I have not been provided with proof of alleged contravention within 28 days of the alleged offence

Date of alleged contravention 9th Jan - the images can only have been uploaded within the last 5 days as I have been checking regularly

 

[dx100uk]

well TBH that photo shows you followed another car into the box, so as i've said several times, you are on the backfoot here already as you should not have done that anyway.

i would continue to press for the video.

[onestressedwoman]

I just got an email back from them telling me I should have contacted cctv operations to request the footage ????

How can this be right I requested evidence from them they are the one making the allegation

[onestressedwoman]

OH  DX they are driving me mad !

I requested footage to no response.

Spoke to local authority who said they have not followed due process in responding to my informal appeal.

I was told to write a letter to head of parking services detailing the mal administration as this is not right (his words)

I did as instructed and received a written response today telling me I have no right to appeal and they are going to issue court proceedings if payment not received within 14 days.

No mention of my being able to take this to appeals tribunal ? 

Still haven't produced any CCTV

How can I not have the right to take this to the parking tribunal?

[jk2054]

Parking tribunal???