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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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British Airways refused my EU261 cancelled flight compensation claim


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I booked a direct flight from LHR to Baltimore USA on 17/12/23, with British Airways.

The flight was cancelled .

The original flight was due to depart at 3pm GMT.

I was placed on an American Airlines flight which departed from LHR at 5:30pm going to JFK not Baltimore.

At JFK I then had to secure another flight which took me to Reagan airport in Washington DC instead of Baltimore. 

I was originally due to arrive in Baltimore at 6pm local time but instead arrived at Reagan airport at 11pm local time, some 5 hrs after the expected arrival. I then had to make my own way to Baltimore.

I provided the above info to BA in my claim, for EU26 compensation.

I received the below response, today

"We’re sorry it was necessary to cancel your flight to and understand why you needed to get in contact about this. We take all reasonable measures to avoid cancelling a flight and we’ll always consider if there are any alternative solutions available before we make a decision. 

Your claim's been refused because  was cancelled because the aircraft experienced severe turbulence whilst operating the previous flight. As a result of this, mandatory inspections had to be carried out. These generally take around four hours and have to be completed before the aircraft can operate. During the inspections, damage to the aircraft was found, which meant repairs had to be carried out before the aircraft could operate

We take all reasonable measures to avoid disruption to a flight and we always consider if there are any other alternative solutions before we make a decision. The cancellation was out of our control and caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.

Thanks again for following this up with us. Once again we're sorry for the disruption caused to your journey and I hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon."

Is this decision correct, can I pursue this claim further or have I reached the end of the rd?

Thanks

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You'd need to check records for the reason of the delay. I know there is a site somewhere that says this.

If it was due to turbulence then you wouldnt be able to claim EU261

However if BA rebooked you and that put you in a different airport, you can sue them for the costs to get you to your original destination if they didn't provide reasonable arrangemnets to get you there

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Posted (edited)

Hey there. You should take this further.

We will split this in two, first your Duty of Care claim and then your compensation claim

 

Duty of care

Regardless of the reasons for the delay or anything that happens. BA owes you the following, and this is 100%, no arguing their way out:

-Your transportation from Washington to Baltimore (they took you to wrong airport)

-Any meals+refreshments you may have had in JFK while connecting, or in LHR while waiting (if your departure was delayed too)

 

Compensation claim

I think their excuse is bogus. On first glance their excuse looks impressive, but it's irrelevant as we are not talking about a plane coming to pick you up at an outstation and that had an unforeseen adventure. The plane affected by the cancellation landed at 16:59 on the 16th December, arriving from Mexico. BA had 22 hours to find another aircraft, at their hub, and failed to do so.

You should tell them that you know the problem flight they are talking about happened the day before, and that their bad logistics isn't your problem. This is not an "unforeseen" issue as they had a full days warning, so the EC261 claims stands. See if they budge and come back and tell us.

 

 

Edit: I use flightradar24, to check flight history, but it requires a paid membership to see more than 7 days in the past.

G-ZBKC - Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner - British Airways - Flightradar24

 

 

Edited by Kyosanto
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Thanks for this Kyosanto,  you have articulated excellently what I was thinking regarding BA's bad logistics , not being my issue. . I will pursue this & let you know how I do. Thanks again. You've given wind to my sails!

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@jk2054

Care to develop what you mean?

22hrs seems like a reasonable advance warning to source another airplane. See this jurisprudence where EZjet had about 6 hours to source another airplane but didn't, and sheriff decided they should pay.

 

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Nothing to develop, its common practice in law that a delay of under 24h wouldn't be unreasonable. The OP did complete their journey and turbulence is excluded. That's just the law.

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"It's common practice" for spreaders of fake news to start their sentences with "it's common practice" or "it's well known that", followed by what ever they believe without a shred of evidence. Apparently it impresses the gullible.

Airline delays are regulated by UK261/EC261 which determines what length of time is reasonable or not. In the case of OP, 4 hours.

"Turbulence" is irrelevant. There is wide jurisprudence available for what does and does not constitute exeptional and unforeseen circumstances that can mitigate right to compensation.

It would be positive to the thread to see you contribute with sources to back your claims, otherwise, it's just turbulence....

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Good morning,

BA have responded and refused my appeal.

Below is BA's response"

An update from British Airways

We’re sorry you’re unhappy with the outcome of your claim and we understand why you needed to get back in contact with us about this.

I’ve had another look at your claim for compensation and I’ve taken time to make sure our response is accurate and up-to-date. Based on this, our decision hasn’t changed and the response you’ve received about the eligibility of your compensation claim are correct.

As your flight was cancelled because the aircraft experienced severe turbulence whilst operating the previous flight. As a result of this, mandatory inspections had to be carried out. These generally take around four hours and have to be completed before the aircraft can operate. During the inspections, damage to the aircraft was found, which meant repairs had to be carried out before the aircraft could operate, which means you’re not eligible for compensation.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 and The Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licencing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 states a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances, that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your cancelled flight.

If you would like to know more about compensation, please visit our pages on ba.com.

We know this experience didn’t meet our usual standards, and so I’d like to offer you an eVoucher for £50.00, which I hope goes some way towards making up for what happened. There are full details about how to use this here.

  • eVoucher number: 
  • Name: 
  • Value: £50.00
  • Expires: 15 January 2025

Thanks again for contacting us. Once again we're sorry for the inconvenience that was caused to your journey and I hope we have the chance to welcome you back on board again soon.

Best regards"

Should I go to ADR?

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Hi,

 

As I advised before turbulence is excluded. You can try ADR but such schemes tend to favor the regulations over looking at the circumstances so I doubt you’d be succesfull.

 

I believe also that some ADR schemes charge for cases

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In the bigger scheme of things, £25 is bearable however I do need to consider my chances of success, as I don't want to expend huge amount of effort & energy at a losing battle. 

If I do decide to pursue the claim, do I have to complete an ADR form?

What is the process I would need to follow?

After some calm consideration, & after re reading the comments on this thread, I have decided to pursue the matter.

I am of the view that if there was indeed turbulence , that event was likely to cause some element of foreseeable damage to the aircraft ie BA should have set in motion, the possible need for an alternate plane.

Also my flight was due to depart from BA's hub  at LHR ie BA should have been able to source an alternate plane at their hub, in the intervening 22 hrs between the cessation of the apparent turbulence event & the scheduled departure of my flight. 

The flight on which i was eventually booked, took me to Reagan airport, not the booked Baltimore. There was no apology, no customer centred service delivery, just utter indifference. 

I may not succeed but I will have tried. 

BA, an apparent reputable airline, did nothing to alleviate my distress, anxiety and confusion caused ,by the sudden flight cancellation  and ensuing lack of information and  extended delay.

Ultimately, I got the sense that BA  (like many major airlines),  who during COVID, had cried out for governments to support them, now post pandemic are once again making so much money, that they feel that they can treat economy passengers or maybe any passenger such as myself ,with impunity.  I may be wrong but that's my perception.  

 As I'm sure, like everyone on this site, i work hard for the money, I use to pay for expensive transatlantic flights.

Surely I can expect to receive a basic level of  decent customer service from an airline , which purports to be world class.. 

I have asked BA to provide me with clear & independent evidence of the extraordinary circumstance, which I think someone on this thread mentioned earlier.

Thanks

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Hey there. It seems that BA have already provided their side of the story here, so you are not likely to get anything further from them.

It does indeed seem that the ADR they are using may charge £25 if your claim is unsucessful... that's not very clear language to say the least. At least you were offer a voucher that pays for half of it.

However before going further can you clarify whether you did a duty of care claim for your transportation from Washington to Baltimore? How did you travel there and do you have supporting evidence? 

IF you claimed for this but they refused your claim then I can all but guarantee your ADR claim will be succesful (at least in part) so that's the fee not to worry about.

If you decide to go to court for this you will need to do some research on past similar cases. You won't be arguing that the damage was not exceptional (it was, and there's no arguing here), but that BA should have been able to source another aircraft. There's the Dunbarr V EZ Jet I linked above where the passenger was succesful, there is also one case V Lufthansa where the German judge found in favor of the airline, however with a big caveat that the airline must be able to prove their logistics were on point. I'm pretty sure I linked this one in one of the other threads around here.

Someone else will be able to confirm but the worse you can lose from SCC is £50 I believe.

Re: your wording from above, a good frequent advice from these forums is to leave "distress" and other emotional factors out of your claim, as they are not claimable damages.

Maybe sleep on it and see what you feel like in a few days! That's what I'm doing (I'm in a similar predicament as you with KLM right now, I was recently delayed by close to 18hrs as the aftermath of a weather event, that was no longer occuring when my flight was scheduled to take place - they paid for hotel and £60 but declined my EC261, I am wondering whether it's worth taking them to the next step, but in my case it's only £220 compensation so a lot of hass for not much further gain)

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Morning,

 

I asked BA to kindly provide me with independent evidence of the extraordinary circumstance. They have not provided me with the evidence but instead the below response to that request 

 

"

We’re sorry you remain unhappy with the outcome of your claim and we understand why you needed to get back in contact with us about this.

 

I’ve had another look at your claim for compensation and I’ve taken time to make sure our response is accurate and up-to-date. Based on this, our decision hasn’t changed and the response's you’ve received about the eligibility of your compensation claim are correct. This means you won't receive any further responses from us about this claim.

 

As your flight was cancelled because the aircraft experienced severe turbulence whilst operating the previous flight. As a result of this, mandatory inspections had to be carried out. These generally take around four hours and have to be completed before the aircraft can operate. During the inspections, damage to the aircraft was found, which meant repairs had to be carried out before the aircraft could operate, which means you’re not eligible for compensation.

 

You can refer your complaint to the Centre for Effective Dispute Resolution (CEDR) for an independent decision to be made. CEDR is an independent dispute resolution provider, certified by the Civil Aviation Authority, to adjudicate disputes between airlines and their passengers which haven’t been resolved through the airline’s own complaints procedure.

 

You can find out how to refer your complaint to CEDR by visiting their website: CEDR

 

Please note that the scope of the adjudication scheme is limited and it could be that your complaint falls outside of it. If you choose to contact CEDR, they’ll be able to advise you if they’re able to deal with your complaint.

 

If your claim falls within the scope of the CEDR Scheme Rules and your application to CEDR is accepted, any previous offer of settlement made by British Airways will be withdrawn. If the application is taken to adjudication, the adjudicator's decision will be final.

 

Thanks again for contacting us."

 

I don't understand why BA did not source an alternate aircraft at their hub at LHR, which happens to have been the airport from where i was departing. The incident occurred 22hrs prior to my scheduled departure. What am i missing here? And why are they not providing me with evidence beyond their 'word'?

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  • 1 month later...

Hi there, have you taken this further in the meantime?

Sorry I notice I never replied to your last post, but there was nothing to add really. BA have given you their "word" and to be honest I trust that the story about the damage and inspection is true. Again it will be up to you to challenge the logistics aspect with the ADR / SCC. It's very common for airlines to refuse to consider logstics because why admit claims when you can deny them, right? If you have evidence of you pointing it out and them blanking your questions, it will look better on you I'm sure.

You still need to answer whether they paid for your transportation costs, because if they didn't, then you really will win your case, for sure, and need not worry about the ADR fee.

I would also contact the ADR body in writing and ask them to clarify whether you'd have to pay if you lose, or if it's only for complaints that were made in bad faith.

 

 

 

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