Needhams Windows, Loughborough, Porch not delivered ordered september!!

[johnjordan]

Hi,

I hope I've put this in the correct forum. I'd appreciate some advice before I decide what action to take next.

At the beginning of September, I ordered a new front porch from a local but reasonably large company.

Their salesman came to my house to take rough measurements and advised a lead time of 6-8 weeks, which was acceptable to me. A few days later a surveyor came and took exact measurements.

On 27th October, 7 weeks later I received a phone call from the salesman asking if they could make a small change to the specification. I was happy to do so and sent a confirming email as requested. I was then told that the doors for the porch would be going to be manufactured on 31st October.

On 21st November I emailed the company asking for an update and followed up with a further email on 28th November as I hadn't heard anything. I sent another email to a different email address in case the first address wasn't being monitored.

This email was replied to by way of a phone call during which it transpired that nothing had actually been done to manufacture the porch. I sent a further email that day expressing my disgust and anger that after 12 weeks my order was no further forward and would certainly not be installed before Christmas. I also mentioned that I was thinking of cancelling the order as I had received a similar quote from another company. Their T&C's state that if I cancelled the order I would be liable for any costs incurred.

I then received another phone call from someone claiming to be the general manager of the company. He acknowledged that my order had been mishandled from the start and that he was taking personal charge. He told me that the company they normally used to produce UPVC arches, which I needed, had ceased trading in October and they had had to find another company to produce this arch. I was also told that they couldn't manufacture the doors and frames until they had the arch in their possession. why was I told on 27th October that the doors would be manufactured on 31st October?

I was then told that they had been promised the arch would be delivered to them on 11th December, they would immediately start to produce the doors and frames and we mutually agreed they would fit the porch on 21st December.

Well, I received another phone call today telling me that the company producing the arch were having difficulty in fitting it into the machine used to bend the UPVC, and that they had now been given a delivery date of 18th December. I was reminded that I had been informed during the phone call on the 30th November that this was a complex job, I replied that that was not my problem and that the salesman who took the initial measurements, and the surveyor who came and took precise measurements should have realised this and given me an appropriate lead time, and this was the first time I had been told the order was complex.

 I have asked the company to tell me what, if any cost I would be liable for if I cancelled the order taking into account it is now 17 weeks since placing the order and, by their own admission very little if any work has been done. I did mention that if I did cancel and they tried to charge me anything, I would consider taking the case to a small claims court. They said they would phone me on Monday with a decision.

Looking at the above saga I would appreciate your advice on what you feel my chances of winning would be if I did go to a small claims court before I do anything drastic.

Thank you.

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

you'd win hands down.

have you actually parted with any money yet?

and please name names..

dx

 

[johnjordan]

Thank you for the speedy reply.

No, I haven't parted with any money, and the company is Needhams Windows, Loughborough, Leicestershire.

[BankFodder]

Have you got written evidence of the promised delivery times?

And of the delays?

[johnjordan]

Unfortunately no. I have the email from the general manager apologising for the lack of communication, and of course my emails to them.

That's all I'm afraid.

[dx100uk]

no money involved..just walk away IMHO.

dx

 

[BankFodder]

You haven't told us the value of this porch

[johnjordan]

£3,947

[BankFodder]

And have you told us how much they say the cancellation charge is?

[johnjordan]

I don't know yet. they said they would let me know on Monday.

I don't want to threaten to take them to court if I don't stand a fair chance of winning.

Their contract states I would be liable for any charges incurred by them to date, but I feel that after all this time there shouldn't be any charge.

[dx100uk]

then dont... you dont have to threaten anything.

just walk away.

 

[BankFodder]

As my site team colleague above said, you can walk away. However you should protect yourself.

Clearly this is been going on for a long period of time – far longer than was ever imagined or agreed.

I think you have to take steps to bring it to the end.

Where there have been protracted delays in the contract then if you want you can communicate with the supplier and tell them that "time is of the essence", it has gone too long and if they don't complete their side of the bargain by XXX date, that you will consider that the contract is terminated.

I think you can give them seven days. It's a shame that you haven't gathered evidence and you are only relying on phone calls et cetera.

I think you need to write them a letter.

Set out a detailed bullet pointed chronology of the steps that have occurred – the promises, the broken promises blah blah blah. Minimum narrative. Keep in a list format.

At the end you point out that it has now gone on considerably longer than anybody expected and that you are bringing to an end and that time is now of the essence and unless they can complete and install the porch within seven days then you will consider they have repudiated the contract and you are accepting that breach of contract as a termination.

Post a draft of the letter here.

I think we had better move quickly. Do it now

[BankFodder]

And incidentally, you won't be taking them to court. They will be taking you to court if they want to. However they will have to deal with the list of delays which you are going to present them with and explain why it was reasonable for you to keep on waiting.
If they want to charge any cancellation fees then they are going to have to justify them.
You refer to some terms and conditions – maybe even tell us what they are.

I have to say that you've been here since 2011 – presumably you read our customer service guide and you know that you should be always recording your calls.
You know that you should keep a paper trail and most importantly you know that you should come here earlier.
 

[johnjordan]

Point taken about recording calls and paper trails. Unfortunately I don't know how to record calls now as successive android updates have stopped the ability to record calls.

As far as coming here earlier, I was satisfied that they were going to install on 21st December .and it was only this afternoon that they phoned me with the further delay and that I said about cancellation of the order. Until then I had no reason to come here.

My biggest regret is that I didn't get the original lead time in writing. I have taken a photo of their T&C's, does it have to be in any particular format to send it?

[BankFodder]

If you want to cancel the order then draft the letter that I suggested

[johnjordan]

How's this?

Needhams letter.odt Untitled 1.odt

[BankFodder]

You have produced some kind of scan summary of terms and conditions but isn't readable.

Please could you post up scanned documents in the kind of legible condition that you would appreciate seeing if you were helping someone else free of charge

[BankFodder]

Still waiting for the terms and conditions in a readable state please.

Try reading what you have posted up on a telephone screen if you don't believe me.

[johnjordan]

Apologies, I've been at work since early this morning.

I tried to crop the whole page of terms and conditions so only those relevant to cancellation appeared as your site would not accept the whole page.

Is there an email address I can send it to as I really don't know how to reduce the size to an acceptable level for this site?

[FTMDave]

I regularly use this free site for work  https://www.sejda.com/compress-pdf

Should work a treat.

[johnjordan]

It's in jpg format and I have no idea how to change it to pdf 

[FTMDave]

https://www.sejda.com/jpg-to-pdf

 

[johnjordan]

Thank you FTMDave. I hope this is better.

Needhams T&C(1).pdf