F&F secured loan with Elderbridge (old First Plus/Barclays) - coerced debt and selling house

[DonkeyB]

What you are claiming is that they have made around £32k more so far from the agreement than if the interest levels had been set at the level you were told.

 

In retrospect, a counterclaim for this amount may have been useful.

[Myfamily]

Thanks Donkey, so I'll take that part out and draft something up, o will post it here and you can have a look if you don't mind!

[Myfamily]

Hi guys thanks very much for your help. I made the point about misleading advertising etc more clear on my letter but had to send it this morning as I will be too busy at work tomorrow to do it and there's not much time.

I got a reply approx 2hours after sending advising me that they are going to their client for instructions, so crossing my fingers. I have given them till next Tuesday to respond.

I will obviously update as soon as I hear.

Thanks again .

Had a reply back from Eversheds, they want I&E forms filled out before their client can consider my offer.

I do not think that I should have to provide this to them, it's no longer about affordability, it's about fairness, I am now not asking for reduced payments I am asking to pay what it FAIR, based on a FAIR contract!

I need to respond asap, would appreciate your help!!

Can anyone help me reply, please?

Anyone?, please?

[DonkeyB]

Well, this is not a ‘legal’ I&E – only the court can order this.

 

I would reiterate your offer, stating what you have above.

 

Have you based your repayments on the original term of the loan?

[Myfamily]

Well, this is not a ‘legal’ I&E – only the court can order this.

 

I would reiterate your offer, stating what you have above.

 

Have you based your repayments on the original term of the loan?

 

Hi donkey.

I have worked out what my payments should be for the rest of the term, I hope that's what you mean!

 

I was going to send a reply of this .

 

" my offer to you is not based on affordability or my income and expenditure, but is based on what we would consider is fair based upon first plus' deliberately misleading information.

 

I am therefore not prepared to complete another income and expenditure form to you. The balance that we believe should be owing, the rate that we believe should be charged and the monthly payments we believe should be made is as per our offer.

 

This along with other issues will be raised in court. "

 

Do you thinks this would be okay? Or too much? ?

[AndyOrch]

I may bite my tongue as I state this but on this occasion it may be advisable to offer them a basic I&E and show cooperation with their request after all you are trying to seek their agreement and sometimes it pays to submit to something you dont agree with...just my opinion.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Myfamily]

I see what you're saying but my only issue is that they haven't actually agreed my proposal yet. I don't want to guve them my I and e as I dont want them to turn it round reject my offer then go ti court next week andnuse my I and e against me. If that makes sense?

[AndyOrch]

And they wont agree/consider without their request being complied with...as stated a very basic I&E should not jeopardise any successful negotiations.If the tables were turned would you ask same?

[DonkeyB]

Good point Andy.

 

I suppose if they have your I&E and demand more than you are offering, then they will rather lose ground in any arguments about fairness.

 

The long-term problem is that this will be extremely difficult to win in court as an LiP – be under no illusion about that – and I’m sure the I&E will show that you can only afford this much anyway...

[Myfamily]

I'm really confused about what to do now.

 

I can probably afford the full CMI now, only because I have made a lot of cut back in food, car, home and life insurances, school dinners etc and my husband will be starting a new job (he got promoted!)

 

But If I send these details I don't want them turn it around on me, and try to say that I can afford it but just don't want to pay! don't want them to think that we're going to continue on the same unfair contract and interest rate, it's currently 10.20% and that is with the base rate being 0.50% if there is any increase in the BOE rates then FP are bound to increase and there will be now end. I will no longer be able to afford it. So I want to stick to my offer at 5.06% and pay based on a FAIR contract.

[DonkeyB]

What you do here has to be your choice.

 

As mentioned by Andy, you don’t want to totally remove any chance of settlement.

 

I’ve done a bit of research on your lender and it looks as if Barclays are essentially winding down the business, having closed it to lending a while ago. I believe they are being aggressive simply to maximise the return on their book.

 

If you did send an I&E – and why include your OH’s future likely earnings? – then you should state it’s as a measure of goodwill, and reiterate that you do not see the point of it given you are arguing for a fair contract, as you were missold the account you have.

[Myfamily]

Mmmm, o.k. They have given me a form looking for a very detailed income and expenses, so is it o.k to do my own which will just state very our Income minus mortgage amount and all the other bills as one total?

also their form states at the end that I wish to settle the outstanding liability which I assume they will think is £104,000 not the £72,000 that I have stated!

If I fill that in I could be agreeing to anything!

[DonkeyB]

Correct, don’t sign anything on their terms. Do a generic one – plenty of examples around.

[Ell-enn]

Mmmm, o.k. They have given me a form looking for a very detailed income and expenses, so is it o.k to do my own which will just state very basically our Income minus mortgage amount and all the other bills as one total?

 

 

You could use the one we normally use in repossession cases (affixed) and is accepted by courts - it calculates automatically as you fill it in.

[Myfamily]

Well I have sent of my answer to them, said my offer was not about affordability but was based on what is fair and what I should have been paying on a Fair contract, also advised them that my offer is based on the calculation that I have already sent to them and that I would not complete their form as it does not say what the balance is so I don't want to be signing something that might imply that I agree with their balance.

I have sent a basic I and E so i'll let you know what I get back!

Thanks to everyone for looking

Well, still waiting for a reply to my e-mail on Friday, but in the meantime, I have just received my Trial bundle. All my documents appear to be in there, except the latest offer I have made to them. I am going to be dropping off a copy of my offer to the courts, but should I also be telling eversheds to include this in the bundle?

[AndyOrch]

Bundle contents should be agreed between parties MF

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/practice_directions/pd_part_27a

 

Andy

[Myfamily]

Hi Andy, She did say that if I wanted anything added I need to send them the info. I will sned her an e-mail now and tell her to include my latest offer (unless they've decided to accept it!!)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy, She did say that if I wanted anything added I need to send them the info. I will sned her an e-mail now and tell her to include my latest offer (unless they've decided to accept it!!)

 

[Myfamily]

Well, I e-mailed her and asked her to add my offer to the bundle and got confirmation today that she has done so. Also got their skeleton arguement today, and am a bit scared now!! They have rejected my offer as well!

 

Their skeleton arguement consists of them again denying that at anytime they agreed to freeze interest etc, also includes their arguement as to why they believe that the contract namely clause 7 of the contract is fair.

 

They have not een mentioned what I have said about the advertising at the beginning of the loan.

 

Terrified now!

[citizenB]

Well, I e-mailed her and asked her to add my offer to the bundle and got confirmation today that she has done so. Also got their skeleton arguement today, and am a bit scared now!! They have rejected my offer as well!

 

Their skeleton arguement consists of them again denying that at anytime they agreed to freeze interest etc, also includes their arguement as to why they believe that the contract namely clause 7 of the contract is fair.

 

They have not een mentioned what I have said about the advertising at the beginning of the loan.

 

Terrified now!

 

Almost certainly they will have memory loss where communications were not in their favour, have you mentioned the advertising in your WS or other communications ?

[DonkeyB]

Would really help to see their skelly...

[Myfamily]

Can I PM it to you, I'm a little bit worried that they could be seeing this!

HI Citizen, sorry forgot to answer your, yes I did mention it in my witness statement and it is in the bundle from the solicitors as well

I have also given them proof!! , via the wayback machine on the internet where you can search for archived versions of websites. and it clearly says the loan repayments could go up or down in accordance with the BOE interest rate movements.

I feel that they are trying to conveniently gloss over it!, I am worried now as they have sent a lot of case study stuff with the skeleton argument, I am on my own here and I don't have that sort of proof no-one else has managed to proof them of any wrong doing - what am I supposed to do!

Can't seem to PM an attachment, I'm gonna just post it here, any help is very much appreciated, trying to write my skeleton argument now, a bit stuck!!

[DonkeyB]

I’ll have a look through this. Suggest you PM Andy and others who have helped for support.

 

Have you got a copy of the misleading ad you can show us?

 

They state they did not stop charging interest, but sort of put it to one side. This surely is wrong – did they tell you this?

 

Do you have a transcript of the phone call?

[Surfer01]

Probably like most of us caught in this trap, Myfamily was probably told over the phone about the interest rate varying with the BoE rates. However I doubt if this part was recorded by FP and I doubt whether a sworn affidavit to the effect would help either as I would be prepared to make one.

[Myfamily]

HI Donkey and Surfer, Thank you both for replying, sorry it's late I have been so busy at work no time to get toa pc till now!

 

Anyway......

 

Donkey, I have attached the print of the misleading websites.

 

No, they told me interest was suspended, not that it was accruing seperately.

 

I have a transcript of the phone call in Nov 2012 confirming frozen interest, but they state that this was because the account had defaulted, when I was having this phonecall I took the mention of the interest being frozen as confirmation of something that I already knew (if that makes sense).

 

I was told in May 2011 that interest would be frozen/suspended due to our financail difficulties, they were told by the court to provide a recording of this call but it appears they don't have it, and I already advised the court that I don't either so it's basically my word against theirs, they says notes would have been made but I have questioned this.

 

I have only found out in the hearing in june that interest was accruing seperately.

 

Surfer - Definately, was misled generally and yes fell into their trap!! I would love an affidavit, but I don't think there's time, trial is tomorrow, am very scared!

 

thanks for your advise and help, any further help you can give would be great!