Horizon ANPR PCN - 15 mins overstay - Quality Foods Southall.

[simonhill]

Today I have received PCN from Horizon Parking for exceeding maximum stay period at Quality Foods Southall. 

The PCN does not mention of what is the allowed time for maximum stay

when I googled it shows 1 hour maximum stay but big sign at entrance also says ICELAND customer parking and not Quality Foods.   

The evidences on the PCN shows that I have exceeded stay by 15 minutes. 

Is there any chance to avoid paying the PCN? 

Please see attached PCN and google images.

 

signs.pdf

horizon PCN.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Hi Simon,

Please fill out the sticky and the guys will advise...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket-please-fill-this-out/#comment-4684358

 

[FTMDave]

Of course there is a chance of avoiding paying their invoice - simply don't pay it.  That takes a lot less effort than paying

I've looked through the other 41 Horizon threads on the forum.

In 39 cases, despite all their bluster & threats, they didn't have the gonads to do court.

On just one occasion they started a court claim - then wet themselves and discontinued when the motorist defended.

Their only victory was when someone moved, didn't inform Horizon, Horizon cottoned onto this and got a CCJ by default.

Please let us have the information in the sticky when you get a minute.

Edited August 9, 2023 by FTMDave
Typos

[lookinforinfo]

Could you please post the back of the PCN which will show if it complies with the Act.

[simonhill]

1 Date of the infringement 22nd July 2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Notice issue Date: 31st July 2023

3 Date received 9th Aug 2023

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N - gave a quick read through but can't see the mention of above Act however it has a section about Data Protection not sure if that is the same.

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N

7 Who is the parking company? Horizon Parking Ltd

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Quality Foods Southall - LPS - JRAE

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

 

 

2023-07-31 horizon PCN incident 202307-22.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Hi Simon,

It's actually a 25 minute overstay, rather than 15 minutes.

However, a "stay" is not a "parking period". Looks like a very busy place, so you could well have been a while finding a parking spot.

Also, you may well have taken some time to exit a busy car park.

The PCN?.. Well, I'll let LFI explain what a load of crud that is. (Compliance wise).

Bottom line is, as long as you don't tell them who was driving, they've got no chance if they do court.

Ignore everything they send unless it's a "letter of claim" then come back here for advice.

(If you're unsure of anything you get, just post it up here for the guys to advise).

Also, educate yourself about how these charlatans work by reading other threads...

[FTMDave]

I see they've lied about the date it was sent to deprive you of the discount period and to pretend to have respected POFA.  I presume there's no postmark on the envelope?

It could be argued that just one hour to do a weekly shop is an unfair term.

A thought - did you shop in Iceland, and if you did, have you got receipts or evidence of payment by card?

[simonhill]

I still have the envelope and there is no postmark or the date on it. 

I did shopping from Quality foods and Iceland both but I don't have receipt from Quality foods however I do have receipt from Iceland and the time on it is 16:23.   Both time I paid using card so that will be evident in card transactions.

Edited August 11, 2023 by simonhill

[FTMDave]

Good news! 

Work calls now but I will be on the thread later.

OK, although the they call the car park "Quality Foods" and Google Maps call it "Quality Foods & Iceland Car Park" it is evident that it is an Iceland car park if you look on Google Maps.

Therefore e-mail the CEO of Iceland  https://ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-9061&c=Iceland Foods-Chief Executive

Lay it on thick about being a genuine customer, attach proof of purchase, say an hour is not really enough to do a weekly shop, don't mention about shopping elsewhere - and ask that Iceland instruct Horizon to cancel the charge.

Some businesses like Asda are superb and will call their dogs off, some like McDonald's are as much use as a dead hedgehog.  We simply don't know with Iceland.  But nothing ventured ... 

 

[Nicky Boy]

I was wondering that myself...

On Google spy view, the only sign at the entrance, welcomes you to the Iceland car park...

[lookinforinfo]

As Nicky Boy rightly said, the PCN  is a joke, private car parks are governed by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

This gives the parking rogues to ability to be able to transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper after 28 days should the driver not have paid the charge within that time.

However the previous is that the rogues have to comply with the Act or the keeper never becomes liable if they don't comply.

This one comes nowhere near complying, all the Rogues can do is keep writing to you hoping you will pay.

As long as they do not know who was driving they are stuck as hundreds of drivers are able to legally drive your car.

 

[FTMDave]

Bradfordlad, who is four months ahead of you in dealing with Horizon, has kindly updated their thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/457479-horizon-anpr-pcn-gallagher-retail-park-bradford/#comment-5223661

Lots of threats, but no actual legal action.

Any reply from Iceland?

[simonhill]

I haven't yet gone to ICELAND CEO will do shortly

but today I have received another letter from Horizon Parking including solicitors letter, please see attached 2 page doc. 

I am going to prepare a letter and comeback here

however I just want to confirm that the shopping I did at ICELAND was very minimal compared to Quality Foods and only evidence I have is from my bank statement with one time shopping will that suffice? while writing to CEO?

Thanks.

 

2023-10-24 dr+ letter.pdf

[dx100uk]

thats not a sols letter....

its a std ignore letter from dr+ seen in many like threads

a dca is not a bailiff

and have

zero powers on any debt - no matter what it's type

 

dx

[FTMDave]

As dx says, the letter is to be laughed at and ignored.

As for the CEO, well you can only send the evidence in your possession of being a genuine customer. 

We don't get many Iceland car park cases, I have no idea if they will be cooperative or not, but they certainly won't cooperate if you don't contact them and I don't understand why you've delayed doing so for three months.

[lookinforinfo]

The name of the CEO is

[email protected]

 

The quicker you write the better the chance of getting the ticket cancelled.. As you have not got as far as Court proceedings your chances are still good. 

Tell him [Mr Dhaliwal ] that you are a regular shopper at Iceland  etc and ask for his help as you are a  regular shopper. 

The non compliant PCN  means that the keeper is not  legally responsible for the charge-only the driver can be pursued. As your car can be driven by anybody who has valid motor insurance Horizon have a lot of choices especially as the Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person.

[simonhill]

 I looked around different sources and below I have prepared a letter to ICELAND CEO please confirm any changes I should make.  Many Thanks

Dear Mr Tarsem Dhaliwal,

I am a big fan of ICELAND products specially frozen products.  ICELAND is my go-to supermarket and I frequently visit ICELAND for my weekend shopping. 

I am writing this letter in relation to PCN (Parking Charge Notice) issued to me by Horizon Parking Ltd.  The notice was issued on 22nd of July 2023.

Below are the details of the PCN.  I am a regular genuine customer of ICELAND and I would appreciate it if this ticket can be cancelled.  

The driver only stayed 15 minutes later than the permitted time and that was due to shopping in Iceland, no-one was abusing the car parking facilities. 

I attach the PCN as well as proof that I purchase in Iceland.

PCN Number:

Notice issue date

Date of breach:

Location:

[FTMDave]

I've made some suggestions in red above, and I don't think you need to put all the PCN details.

I think it's important to show them that the breach was petty plus show proof that you are a genuine customer.

[simonhill]

thank you I have sent email to ICELAND CEO let's see what will be the response.

[FTMDave]

[simonhill]

I have received response from ICELAND and they will look into the matter but before that they need my name, address and contact number which I have provided to them. Let's see.

[FTMDave]

Not fat lady time ... but sounds promising!

[simonhill]

unfortunately I received below response from ICELAND.

Thank you for confirming your personal details for me as this has allowed me to ensure that your concerns are formally logged.

In the circumstances we would not be able to assist you with this parking charge notice which you received after you reported you visited our store on 22/07/23.

We are only able to advise that should you wish to do so then you appeal this through the issuing company detailing any extenuating circumstances.  We wish you all the very best with any appeal should you decide to do this. 

On behalf of Mr. Dhaliwal may I take this opportunity to thank you for your past custom and I do hope that this singular issue has not deterred you from visiting the store again in the future. 

[FTMDave]

What a disgraceful shirking of responsibility.

On the forum we have come across
   - companies which are excellent at getting tickets cancelled (Asda)
   - companies which refuse to move their little finger (McDonald's)
   - companies which initially fob off motorists but then do cooperate if you keep on at them.  It all depends on the company policy.  In the vague hope that Iceland fall into this camp I would write back:

Dear XXXXX,

Re: PCN no.XXXXX

thank you for your reply of XXXXX which I find extremely disappointing.

Of course Iceland "would be able to assist me".  Horizon are your agents, you called them in, you are the organ grinder.

It is appalling customer service to expect someone who has proved that they were a genuine customer to pay £150 for overstaying for a few minutes in a car park - and then shirk your legal responsibility by pretending that you "would not be able to assist". 

The charge was originally £100 but your agents are now demanding £150 as I didn't reply in time, although the extra £50 is unlawful, is specifically forbidden by Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act and has been refused by judges in numerous court cases.  This is being done by your agents in your name.

I would ask you once again to kindly instruct your agents to drop this charge.

Yours, XXXXX

Send that off today and keep fingers crossed.

Edited November 13, 2023 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[lookinforinfo]

Instead of adding the words in brackets about the £150 you could change it to something like plus they have now added an unlawful £50 which  as they are acting in your name, you should be preventing them from ripping off your customers.