Lost eBay Laptop for £430, Packlink/Evri - EVRI PAPLOC/Claimform Issued ***Settled***

[radupana]

Hi everyone,

 

Appreciate there are many similar threads to this one, but I didn't want to hijack those and I would like to get some bespoke advice on my specific situation.

 

I recently sold a laptop on eBay for £430, through Packlink and delivery with Evri. I don't remember being given the option to purchase extra coverage, but I did mark the item's value at £430 on the Packlink portal.

 

It was supposed to be delivered on October 21, but there were no updates after October 20. I had to refund the Buyer at this point.

 

I have raised a Claim with Packlink and also e-mailed Evri's CEO (apparently). Evri came back saying that I  need to raise this with Packlink and that they can't help me.

 

Packlink came back saying that the courier (Evri) has confirmed the package as lost and they will refund me £25 + postage (which is the basic refund for Evri parcels with no extra coverage).

 

I replied to the Packlink e-mail, telling them that I cannot accept this, but they just answered with a copy-paste message about how the standard coverage is £25 and basically told me to go away.

 

I tried using Resolver but they effectively just send an e-mail to Evri on my behalf, so I don't expect much to come out of it.

 

I understand I cannot do much with Packlink as they are based in Spain and my best course of action is to get my money from Evri. What would the best approach be? 

 

Thank you.

[BankFodder]

You have started a process with resolver. You shouldn't try to ride two horses at the same time so stick with resolver and come back here if you don't get a solution.

In the meantime you can usefully spend your time reading up the many stories on this sub- forum and also follow the link – EVRi – in order to understand the underlying principles

[radupana]

Thank you for your answer.

The resolver case has had a standard reply from Evri yesterday

"Thank you for your email.

If you are replying to an email we have sent you, please be assured that the relevant team will be in touch with a response.

If this is a new enquiry and you would like to contact us, we would ask that you visit http://www.evri.com/help-and-support/contact-us, follow a short series of questions and click on "Start a chat" button. This inbox is not monitored and you will not receive a reply.

"Since I was already in touch with Evri through e-mail and they said they can't do anything and sent me to Packlink, I think this conversation will also come to a dead-end, but I'll give it a day or so to see.

I'll do some reading in the meantime.

Got a reply from Evri:

"Unfortunately, we are unable to issue a lost claims form as the parcel contents are excluded from compensation within our network. If you would like to read over this I have attached the link. 

I can appreciate that this is far from ideal. Please, in future don't send the nature of these parcel contents through our network incase this were to happen again.

If you need anything in the future, please contact your Evri Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.

"That link does mention "laptops and computers" as "excluded from compensation", but I think there have been a few successful cases on this forum for actually receiving compensation for such items.

Suggestions for me at this stage?

I have read some of the posts on the sub-forum, but some of them mention mediation, others mention sending a claim letter, others have gone to court, so not sure which step is next for my situation.

 

[honeybee13]

It probably doesn't matter if the posts are merged, does it? But also, if you post twice within a few minutes, the system will automatically merge them but there should be a message saying that.

 

HB

[BankFodder]

We are here to help you but this is a self-help forum. Please will you do sufficient reading so that you know the steps. It's a question of confidence on your part. If you understand all the steps and just need general guidance from us then you will be much more confident and in control of the situation.

We will guide you through the entire process that you will need to have done a lot of reading. Many people have had exactly the same problem and have gone through the process before you and so you will very easily discover what the steps are and what the arguments are and what the principles are – and especially if you follow the EVRi link.

One of things that you will need to do will be to prepare a letter of claim and post a draft of it here

[radupana]

Thanks for your answer.

 

I did some reading and prepared the letter of claim:

"""

    LETTER OF CLAIM
    Parcel reference number P0110179
    
     Dear Sir/Madam,
    On 19/10/2022 I used your service to send a parcel under the above reference number.  
    The package never arrived at the destination and I am assuming that it has been stolen. 
    This was purchased via 3rd parties (inpost via eBay Packlink) but I am pursuing yourselves as I am entitled to do under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties Act ) 1999).
    
    Value of sold item = £430 
    Postage cost = £6.46
    Packlink compensation =  £6.46 + £25 (standard compensation)
    Total loss to me (amount of claim) = £398.54

    You have so far declined to reimburse me and I am therefore informing you that I'm proposing to begin a county court claim against you within 14 days and without any further notice unless you reimburse me in full before that date.

    Yours faithfully

"""

 

Does this look OK? Should I mention something about the fact that the laptop is on the prohibited items list, but this has no bearing on the fact that it was lost/stolen?

 

I'll send it to Evri (any advice on which e-mail gets the quicker response? EvriSupport@evri.com, [email protected], myhermessupport@EVRi-europe.co.uk? Otherwise I'll just send it to all of them).

 

I'll wait 14 days for a response.

 

If no satisfactory response in 14 days, I will issue a money claim via Money Claim Online, with the following content

"""

    I used the defendant's courier service  to deliver a laptop computer value £398.54 to a UK address. Reference number P0110179. I am claiming as a beneficial third-party within the meaning of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.
    The parcel never arrived at the destination and the defendant's courier service has confirmed it lost.
    The defendants have refused to reimburse me for the laptop on the basis that I did not purchase their additional insurance cover. 
    The defendant' s requirement that the customer should protect themselves against the negligence or criminality of their employees is unfair within the meaning of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and therefore unenforceable. 
    My claim is for £398.54 plus interest per section 69 County Courts act 1984+ court fees

"""

 

At this stage I expect Evri to wait until the last second and provide a defense. I'll wait for the DQ (Directions Questionnaire) and agree to mediation (I've read that sometimes they refuse mediation and go straight to court, let's see)

 

I'll rely on the argument that "a prohibited items list might be relevant in respect of damaged goods where the fact that it is a laptop has somehow contributed to the damage. Clearly the fact that it has a laptop has no bearing on the fact that it has been lost or stolen and therefore the prohibited items list is unfair and therefore unenforceable."

 

If it does end up in mediation/court, I'll read the entire rights of third parties act, but the jist is: "Broadly speaking you enjoy all the rights of a direct contracting party if you are either a named beneficiary of the contract or you are part of a class of person who might reasonably be expected to be a beneficiary of the contract." and "Make the point that in any event Packlink is domiciled in Spain and that if EVRi were allowed to escape liability on this basis, it would effectively be an unfair term of their contract with you and therefore unenforceable under the consumer rights act."

 

Thanks again for the guidance, this forum is a godsend!

Edited November 3, 2022 by radupana

[BankFodder]

Looks as if you have done all of your reading very thoroughly!!

 

 

[radupana]

Tweaked the letter of claim a bit (added a couple of points about why there reasons for refusal are not enforceable) and sent it to all the Evri e-mails I could get my hands on. 

 

"""

    LETTER OF CLAIM
    Parcel reference number P0110179
    
    Dear Sir/Madam,
    On 19/10/2022 I used your service to send a parcel under the above reference number.  
    The package never arrived at the destination and I am assuming that it has been stolen. 
    This was purchased via 3rd parties (inpost via eBay Packlink) but I am pursuing yourselves as I am entitled to do under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties Act) 1999.
    
    Value of sold item = £430 
    Postage cost = £6.46
    Packlink compensation =  £6.46 + £25 (standard compensation)
    Total loss to me (amount I am claiming) = £398.54

    You have so far declined to reimburse me and I am therefore informing you that I'm proposing to begin a county court claim against you within 14 days and without any further notice unless you reimburse me in full before that date.
    
    The reasons you provided for the refusal of compensation, namely that:
    
    1. Packlink is responsible for the contract
    2. The contents were on the prohibited items list 
    
    are not enforceable, because:
    
    1. I enjoy all the rights of a direct contracting party as I am both a named beneficiary of the contract and I am part of a class of person who might reasonably be expected to be a beneficiary of the contract
    2. The fact that the item is a laptop has no bearing on the fact that it has been lost or stolen and therefore the prohibited items list is unfair and therefore unenforceable

    Yours faithfully

 

"""

 

Will keep you posted with the progress.

 

Canned response from Evri (literally the same response I got when I first sent an inquiry e-mail):

 

"""

Thank you for contacting our CEO, Martijn De Lange. My name is Asiya and Martijn has personally asked me to investigate this matter on his behalf.

We’re 100% dedicated to ensuring every parcel arrives safely, but unfortunately on this occasion the courier has not met the standard of delivery we expect from them. 

I am very sorry that you have experienced a problem with this delivery and understand how frustrating this must be. I have shared details with your local delivery team, to address this as an urgent issue and prevent it happening again.

I can see that your parcel was booked through Packlink who use our network to send their parcels through, but they are an independent company and your enquiry will need to go directly to them, so they can discuss the options available to you for your missing parcel.

Please see here the link to their contact page https://support.packlink.com/hc/en-gb

I'm pleased to have helped you reach the right place today for your enquiry and hope your find a suitable resolution

Your Evri Customer Service team is here if you need anything in the future

Kind regards

Asiya

Evri Executive Office

"""

 

Waiting 14 days and starting the MoneyClaim process. The form is already prepared and saved, just need to pay the £50 court fees and send it out. 

 

Assuming this address is still correct:

Capitol House

1 Capitol Close

Morley

LEEDS

Postcode LS27 0WH

[BankFodder]

Quote

Dear Asiya

Ref no.XXXX

Thanks for your response to my letter of claim.

 

Would you prefer me to wait out the entire 14 days before I issue the papers or can you confirm that you are waiving the 14 day warning period and that I can issue the claim straightaway?

If you aren't sure then ask Martjin.

Warmest regards

XXXX

 

[radupana]

Thanks for the suggestion@BankFodder, I sent it through, and to nobody's surprise, this is what I got back:

 

"""

Regarding parcel H0067A0093389700.

Thank you for contacting our CEO, Martijn De Lange. My name is Aamirah and Martijn has personally asked me to investigate this matter on his behalf.

I am very sorry that you have experienced a problem with this delivery and understand how frustrating this must be.

I can see that this parcel was booked through Packlink Shipping/eBay.

Packlink/eBay use our network to send their parcels through, but they are an independent shipper and any enquiries about their parcels need to go directly to them so they can check in their systems and they will be able to advise you of the claim.  

Here is the link to their Help Center

eBay Delivery Help Center: https://support-ebay.packlink.com/hc/en-gb 

Packlink Help Center: https://support.packlink.com/hc/en-gb 

Or if you need to make a claim visit here https://support.packlink.com/Claims.

I'm pleased to have helped you reach the right place today and your EVRi Customer Service team is here if you need anything in the future

Your Evri Customer Service team is here if you need anything in the future

Kind regards

Aamirah

"""

 

The 14 day deadline I provided them in my Letter of Claim is a timeframe for them to reply. They have replied (twice) with the same dismissive response, so in my opinion I am entitled to start the Money Claim proceedings. Would you say this is a correct assumption?

[BankFodder]

No.

Prepare the claim now and issue on day 15.

Post a draft of your proposed claim here

[radupana]

Money claim draft:

 

"""

I used the defendant's courier service to deliver a laptop computer worth £398.54 to a UK address. Reference number P0110179.

I am claiming as a beneficial third-party within the meaning of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.

The parcel never arrived at the destination and the defendant's courier service has confirmed its loss.

The defendants have refused to reimburse me for the laptop on the basis that I did not purchase their additional insurance cover and that the item is on the excluded item list for reimbursement.

The defendant' s requirement that the customer should protect themselves against the negligence or criminality of their employees is unfair within the meaning of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and therefore unenforceable.

 

The fact that the item was a laptop has no bearing on the fact that it has been lost or stolen and therefore the prohibited items list is unfair and therefore unenforceable.

I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form.

"""

[BankFodder]

Don't send further particulars.

Do it all at one go.  Otherwise it gets complicated.  What else do you think you need to tell them anyway?

[radupana]

Yes, my bad, it was a copy/paste claim from a forum example. I will remove the last sentence as I have nothing else to send them.

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid that you will need to be far more careful. If you are simply relying on copying and pasting without checking your work then you are going to end up bringing a court action which you might lose and which will certainly cost you money.

You need to have read sufficiently that you understand what you are doing and you are fully in control

[radupana]

Money Claim form submitted.

 

Day of service = Nov 18 (tbd, hopefully it will be issued today) + 5 days = Nov 23; Add 14 days deadline for them to respond = Dec 7, the date when I expect to hear back from Evri.

 

Will keep you updated.

Edited November 18, 2022 by radupana
added a clarification to the date of issue

[radupana]

Small update: EVRi filed an acknowledgment of service on 30/11/2022 at 12:05:05

 

They intend to defend the entire claim. The response pack was signed by a "Jcobbett".

 

I am now waiting for them to file a defence and for me to receive a DQ, after which I will go for mediation.

[BankFodder]

Thanks for the update .

 

 

Please will you post up the defence in PDF format when you receive it .

 

 

 

[radupana]

Hi,

 

Attached the defence in PDF format.

 

Looks pretty standard as per others' experience. They are denying they have a contractual relationship with me and point to Packlink: "the Defendant does not have any contractual relationship with Packlink ‘s customers". I'll contest this by referring to the "Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999" when the time comes.

 

They also admit that they lost the parcel: "The last tracking point for the Parcel was on 20th October 2022 . There are no further tracking points after this date and therefore the Defendant accepts that the Parcel is lost."

 

Of course, the parcel is most likely not lost, but in the hands of one of their thieving delivery drivers. I'll not bring this up as it's irrelevant and purely speculation, but it's one of the reasons I don't want them to get away without paying me.

 

The status of the claim is now: "DQ sent to EVRi on 20/12/2022"

 

I expect to also receive the DQ soon, in which I'll go for meditation as a first step.

 

redacted defence.pdf

[BankFodder]

Thank you .

 

Yes, you are correct about the process .

 

Keep doing your reading.

Ask questions here if you want .

 

Just know when you get the DQ.

Resolve not to give a single inch. Call their bluff and be prepared to go to court .

 

The mediator will ask why you aren't giving some ground .

 

He also is that it is your case to do as you want and in any event, if they settle your claim in full they will escape a judgement against them on the issue of third party rights which would destroy their defence for future claims against them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[radupana]

Hi,

 

I just got back to the UK from abroad for the holidays and found the DQ in my mail. It states that I "must, by 6 January 2023 complete the Small Claims Directions Questionnaire (Form N180) and file it with the court office. "

 

It's January 7 today, so the earliest I can get these out is Monday January 9 with next day delivery on January 10. I am hopeful that this small delay won't lead to my claim being struck. I wasn't able to find an option to ask for an extension of this deadline.

 

However, I have also not received a copy of Evri's DQ, which is my understanding I should have, based on:

 

(1) Subject to rule 26.5A, if a defendant files a defence –

(a) a court officer will – (ii) require the parties to file a completed directions questionnaire and serve copies on all other parties;

 

So it looks like Evri has also failed to meet the deadline.

I'll mail the completed DQs out to the County Court and Evri on Monday, with next day delivery. Will keep you posted.

Thanks.

 

[dx100uk]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347310-legal-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track-correct-at-sept-2016/#comment-5088148

3 copies

yes to mediation (unless you filed our Statute Barred Defence OR this is a claim for a Private Parking Ticket)

1 wit you

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no (read all the posts in N180 link above for the reason)

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to sols (omit phone/sig/email)

1 for your file

 

send it by email to the court, do not use email for the fleecers. 2nd class mail

 

MCOL is only one way of responding to a claim. 
(AOS, DEFENCE, N180 ETC)
.
If you are having problems logging in, or would prefer not to use MCOL, 
you can fax, email or post your response to the Court instead. 

If you send your response by e mail 
please send it to [email protected] 

ensure you quote “Claim number xxx xxx (type of response i'e AOS , Defence, N180)” in the subject field. 
.

 

[radupana]

Hi @dx100uk,

 

Thanks for the quick reply, much appreciated.

 

I have e-mailed the completed DQ to [email protected] and will post it to Evri via Royal Mail, as suggested. I would've used MCOL but couldn't see an option for uploading documents online, so I went with the e-mail option.

 

I've completed the DQ as suggested here, quoting the reasons on the forum when selecting "no" for the "determination without a hearing".

[radupana]

Small update, we were all set for mediation but it was cancelled because Evri did not provide contact details. I assume this will bode well for me, as I was (at least in theory) willing to negotiate by accepting mediation, whereas Evri failed to do so.

 

Waiting for the case to move to the next stage.

[BankFodder]

But it would be nice to have an update.