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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Royal Mail - SAR failure Complaint - tried ICO - is there a legal timeframe before which the organisation must respond?


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I made a complaint about my redirection to Royal Mail via phone. Royal mail send me a letter saying if I had any more issues I can contact them via the address on the top of the letter. That address was/is:

 

Customer Service Centre,
P O Box 740,
Stoke on Trent,
ST1 5XZ

 

Within the letter the staff member said the address is a freepost address. 

I found the need to contact the customer service centre again. 

 

I wrote a letter to the Customer Service Centre. As I'm unable to post the letter myself, I asked a colleague to post it to the address above. I also told her that it was a freepost address. As 'freepost' was missing from the address she had decided to write the address on the envelope as: 

 

FREEPOST
P O Box 740
Stoke on Trent
ST1 5XZ
 

Any ideas if the letter will make to to the recipient?

 

I think she may have felt that as the address did not have 'freepost', sorting office may delay or not deliver the item as they may not be aware the address is freepost Is it common knowledge (among postal staff) that the address is freepost and do we not need to specify this on the address?


I'm attaching the letter from Royal Mail that said the address is freepost:

letter from Royal Mail with Customer Service address that says it's freepost

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yes write freepost as the 1st line of address and pop it in a postbox

 

sorry that didnt come out properly

its a general centre for lots of royal mail depts

 

you needed to have used 

On 19/08/2021 at 16:10, parity4all said:

Customer Service Centre,
P O Box 740,
Stoke on Trent,
ST1 5XZ

 

but put freepost as the 1st line

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Turns out she's put:

 

Customer Service Centre
Customer Service Advisor
FREEPOST
P O Box 740
Stoke on Trent
ST1 5XZ

 

Pretty sure it's not conventional to put the person/job title of the person it's addressed to after the team/department, but I can't see it causing too much confusion.

 

The FREEPOST soon afterwards makes sense. From what I've seen on the RoyalMail twitter account that's the usual practice. See tweet attached:

royal mail tweet with customer service centre address previously based in Plymouth

 

The tweet is from 2012 with the same P.O.Box number but Customer Service Centre was then in Plymouth then, not Stoke on Trent. Can't see the convention changing though.

 

Quote

but put freepost as the 1st line

 

I think the Freepost at the top comes only if it's accompanied by a code or a name. As mentioned in this website. See (5) below (note that the webpage is not from the royal mail website):

 

Quote

Royal Mail Customer Service
Those who wish to get in touch with the Royal Mail Customer Service can make use of the following ways;
1. These users and customers can make use of the online tools like the “Help Centre” to find instant help online
2. They can call on the number 03457 740 740 to get in touch with the advisors
3. These customers and users can also fill out the online forms uploaded on the website
4. The users can also choose to get in touch with the customer service department of the company through the text-phone 03456 000 606
5. To write to the company about the queries and the problems the postal address is;
Freepost RLZL-LHZH-JZHT, Royal Mail Customer Services, PO Box 740, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7YB

 

I wouldn't use that address these days though, for the simple reason mentioned before. i.e. customer Service centre seems to be now based in Stoke on Trent. 

 

BTW, just discovered from the Royal Mail Website, it seems businesses/charities can buy a licence for a Freepost name. we (customer/donor) only need to put 'Freepost [NAME OF BUSINESS/Charity]
when writing to business/charity. 

 

Wonder how come Royal Mail don't have a similar Freepost name for Customer Service Centre. Something like...'Freepost Royal Mail Customer Service Centre'. Just one line.

 

Could it be to prevent customers complaining about trivial matters, such as postie not closing the gate after delivering mail or postie walking across the grass lawn.

 

At the moment, only select few customers are aware of the Customer Service Centre freepost address, and we have to write a few lines for the address, not a single line.

 

Seems there is a Royal Mail Customer Services in Plymouth, as opposed to Customer Service Centre (in Stoke on trent). Address is listed as: 

 

Royal Mail Customer Services
FREEPOST
Plymouth
PL9 7YB
 
 
as: Royal Mail Customer Services, FREEPOST, PO Box 740, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7YB

 

But that is talking about making a claim for loss, damage, delay. it seems depending on the query/issue we may have to contact one or the other address. i.e. Plymouth or stoke.

 

Not sure if they are other customer services related addresses depending on the area of expertise. i.e. loss/damage/delay, redirection of mail etc.

 

Apparently, royal mail does have one line freepost addresses. i.e. 'Freepost Royal Mail International':

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/the_address_for_freepost_royal_m

 

However, according to that customer, they (one line addresses') such as those are frowned upon by royal mail staff.

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  • 11 months later...

I lodged a Subject Access Request with Royal Mail on 06 September 2021.

 

They responded to it on 30 September 2021. However, they didn't provide all the information that I requested.

 

I lodged a compliant (as per the guidance on the ICO website). 

 

They (Royal Mail) replied on the same day:

 

Quote

 

In regards to your concerns around the information missing from the information disclosed to you, specifically e-mails, reports, letters and call recordings;

 

this will be progressed as a complaint, we endeavour to respond to all complaints within 1 month of receipt but depending on the amount of data to be reviewed and any additional searches required it may take longer.

 

Please be assured the concerns you have raised are being looked into, and we will respond as soon as possible.

 

 

I didn't hear back.,

 

I complained to the ICO. ICO didn't reply within 3 months,  I lodged an appeal at the First-tier Tribunal.

 

Then ICO contacted Royal Mail by letter. Still no reply to the complaint.

 

again ICO contacted Royal Mail. Only then I received a reply just a few days ago.

 

On the reply Royal Mail have said they need the reference number in order to try and locate the two emails I requested. they've told me they've not been able to locate a letter.

 

They've apologised and said 'whilst there is no statutory set time scale for responding to complaints, we endeavour to respond to all complaints as soon as possible within one calendar month of receipt.'.

 

Suffice to say, it has taken well over 9 months, nevermind one calendar month.

 

Is there really no statutory (legal) timeframe?.

 

I remember there used to be.

 

Perhaps changed with GDPR?

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Royal Mail - SAR failure Complaint - tried ICO - is there a legal timeframe before which the organisation must respond?

The SAR itself can be legally enforced in a court of law after 30 days .

 

However, you allowed them to treat the failure to return all of your data as a complaint, that typically gives them 56 days or 8 weeks before you can escalate to the FOS

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Threads merged

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

you are missing the point.

 

its no longer an sar failure issue - they chose to deal with your issue as a complaint, you let them..you should have issued a court claim on day 31 too late now.

 

quite honestly i'd inform the ico of their reply and pointout what is still missing.

 

BTW:

why are a couple of emails and a letter so important to what appears to be a mail redirection issue?

what are you hoping or not to gain by this exercise?

why do you need them?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

5 hours ago, dx100uk said:

 

what are you hoping or not to gain by this exercise?

 

dx

 

My personal data.

 

Sorry about hitting 'quote' but I need to clearly state this is indeed what I'm replying to.

 

Quote

why are a couple of emails and a letter so important to what appears to be a mail redirection issue?

 

The SAR is not solely to do with the redirection issue. I had used the Royal Mail website's 'report a crime' feature. Kept the screenshot where it say 'Thank you. Your submission has been received' . I also requested my personal data about this submission within the SAR. Royal Mail didn't have a record, so, attached to the complaint, I sent them the screenshot, which has the website URL. Date and time are on the screenshot as well.

 

Royal Mail response was that they conducted a search using my name, address and email address, but no records were identified. Odd since I had provided them my personal details within the report.

 

Quote

quite honestly i'd inform the ico of their reply and pointout what is still missing.

 I contacted the ICO again earlier this week, they (the case officer at ICO) emailed me yesterday and said [it is]'common practice for an organisation to seek clarification on what information a data subject requires as part of their request when deemed necessary.'"

 

"...once you have received a final response from the organisation, you still remain unsatisfied, you could forward the correspondence to us so that we could consider the matter."

 

The Royal Mail letter does not state it's a final response, so I think I'd need to liaise with them until they make that clear or there is a lack of response (again). 

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