Big Motoring World/BMW PCP Finance/Warranties 2000 - Range rover Evoque timing chain fail at 76k

[theoldrouge]

I think you have gone as far as you are going to get with the FOS
I would accept the decision and get the car inspected by such as the RAC/AA after it is repaired before accepting the repair 
Meanwhile carefully work out all the financial implications of purchasing and then selling the vehicle on to see if that works for you 
Car buying websites will give you a pretty good idea as to what you are going to be able to achieve price wise

[Hotdog77]

Hi @theoldrouge

Have had my head stuck in teacher training and uni work.

I note your comments with thanks, I'll reluctantly accept the fix.

Should I have the vehicle inspected before collection? 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

On 23/06/2023 at 18:42, theoldrouge said:

I would accept the decision and get the car inspected by such as the RAC/AA after it is repaired before accepting the repair 

dx

[Hotdog77]

Clear as day

[Hotdog77]

Hello,

Further to the last correspondence, 4 weeks has now surpassed since agreeing to the conditions set via FOS.  I've hear nothing from the finance company, therefore, returned back to FOS to make them aware. 

Here is the response that I have receive!  

Dear Ms 

 

I'm sorry to hear that you've not heard from Creation yet.

I've just written to them asking them to contact you directly.

It is worth noting that our service is unable to enforce a business to comply with the ombudsman's decision.

But it does mean that you're able to enforce the decision through the court system.

 

I'm not able to give advice on how to proceed with this, but you may find it helpful to speak to an independent organisation such as Citizen's Advice on how to move forward if Creation still don't respond to my reminder.

 

Kind regards

 

To be honest I am extremally worried to say the least, because if the finance company is not bound to comply with the argument set by FOS, then this leaves me still swing in the air waiting for my settlement. 

It also muddies the water when it comes down to the ending of the agreement, which will be early October 2023. 

Saying that, I thought the finance company was supposed to contact me 2 months before the agreement ends, to check whether I want to purchase the vehicle (balloon payment) or return it at the end of the contract.

It's all just a mess, and I'm finding it difficult to ascertain mentally, especially as it looks as though I may need to settle down the court route.

HELP!

[dx100uk]

several have done it . N233 i think?

dx

 

[Hotdog77]

Never imagined how long winded and arduous this would be.

OK so when should I begin the N233? what is an N233? is there a cost?

 

[theoldrouge]

N322A but see what happens from the letter first 
Probably due to incompetence on Creations part

[Hotdog77]

Noted!! Give it a week?

[Hotdog77]

Morning,

 

 As an update to this post, I was contacted via email on Friday 18th August by a FOS Relations and RCA Officer from Creation.

Despite receiving the email on August 18th, I have yet to get any type of response from the dealership. At first, I had thought of maintaining the car after the repair was complete, however, after visiting the garage to collect my things and assess the vehicle's state, coupled with a productive discussion with the owner, I have made the decision to leave it in the finance company.

 My opinion is that their lack of communication, along with their approach of using delay tactics, has been done intentionally. Do I really think it would be wise to have them fix the car if I am not intending on keeping it? Probably not. Is that accurate?

End of agreement
 In approximately five weeks, my finance agreement will come to an end, despite the fact that there have been long-standing issues with the vehicle's engine. Still, I should have been contacted by the finance company to determine if I wanted to retain the car or return it to them once the period was over. Despite none of the aforementioned occurring yet, would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction with regards to an appropriate letter template to affirm the conclusion of the agreement? I am endeavoring to return the car and also cancel the Direct Debit without having to make a final balloon payment, oh and also request the FOS  ruling to be actioned with immediate effect or I will proceed to court.

 

Letter received from Section 75

I am writing to confirm we have received the acceptance of the Finance Ombudsman Service ruling.  This has been passed to the dealership on 11^th August 2023, they will be in contact with you in due course to make arrangement for the necessary repair to be carried out.  Once this has been action the remainder of the ruling will be actioned.

 

Should you need any further assistance in the meantime please do not hesitate to contact me.

[theoldrouge]

tbh I found your last post rather confusing 

What is this letter received from section 75?
It would seem that they are going to comply with the fos ruling?

So if they fix the car and then you end the agreement there will be no argument over condition etc at the end of the agreement 

so nothing to gain/lose by having it put back in roadworthy condition at their expense

They will have to contact you re the end of the agreement, personally I wouldn’t complicate matters

Please reiterate again to save wading through the thread the financial details the fos have told them to expedite 

[dx100uk]

yes me too!

gave up after the 4th reading.

dx

[Hotdog77]

Apologies, I was trying to get everything in at once.

 

Letter received from Section 75 

I am writing to confirm we have received the acceptance of the Finance Ombudsman Service ruling.  This has been passed to the dealership on 11^th August 2023, they will be in contact with you in due course to make arrangement for the necessary repair to be carried out.  Once this has been action the remainder of the ruling will be actioned.

 

End of agreement

 In approximately five weeks, my finance agreement will come to an end, despite the fact that there have been long-standing issues with the vehicle's engine. Still, I should have been contacted by the finance company to determine if I wanted to retain the car or return it to them once the period was over. Despite none of the aforementioned occurring yet, would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction with regards to an appropriate letter template to affirm the conclusion of the agreement? I am endeavoring to return the car and also cancel the Direct Debit without having to make a final balloon payment, oh and also request the FOS ruling to be actioned with immediate effect or I will proceed to court.

 

 

[dx100uk]

might it be better to scan these letters up than keep typing them out?

 

[theoldrouge]

Nope clear as mud I’m afraid 
As dx says scan the letters up
AND set out in detail the Financial aspects of the FOS ruling as requested 
IMO what you are dealing with is gross incompetence on the part of Creation (rather like Moneybarn)
They should in theory set out and explain your options at the end of the agreement and may well yet do so
But let’s get to the actual facts and when we can actually understand what is happening, we can then advise on a letter to send if necessary (no template will cover your particular case)

[Hotdog77]

Noted the above, but please note that it was an email that I had received. no letter.  I literally just copied the message which is above, headed under: Letter received from Section 75 . I have attached a screenshot 

 

In regard to the end of agreement arrangement, I do agree with @theoldrouge   that creation should in theory set out and explain my options prior to the end of the agreement and may well yet do so.  Funnily enough I had to speak with them last week and the remaining payments. 

I have left a payment in September, then in October will be the balloon payment. 

The agent advised that I should call the dealership to inform them that I would not be taking the car at the end o the agreement.  But initially I wanted some sort of letter template to send off to both creation and the dealership and also cancel my direct debit. 

I do not want to give them the opportunity to say that I have been in breach of contract for whatever reasons therefore I am liable to pay the balloon payment...look I don't know. 

Never taken out car finance before and sure won't after this experience. 

I just want to know what to do, without any repercussions on myself.

Apologies if this has been confusing.  

Untitled presentation.pdf

 

Fos ruling:

Creation should compensate her for this. So, Creation should: 

1. Arrange for the failed timing chain to be repaired, at no cost to Ms ; 
2. Refund the payments Ms has made from February 2022 until when the repaired car is returned to her, to compensate her for the period she didn’t have use of the car; 
3. Reimburse the £950 Ms paid for the second independent engineer’s report;
4. Reimburse Ms  with the costs of insuring the second car, from its purchase in March 2022 until the repaired car is returned to her; 
5. Apply 8% simple yearly interest on the refunds, calculated from the date Ms  made the payment to the date of the refund † ; 
6. Remove any adverse entries relating to the above payments being refunded on Ms  credit file; and 
7. Pay Ms  an additional £300 to compensate her for the trouble and inconvenience caused by being supplied with a car that wasn’t of a satisfactory quality.

 

?

 

[theoldrouge]

Away this week little internet access 
More next week 

[theoldrouge]

OK so write to the dealership informing them that you will not be paying the balloon payment (not sure where the car is atm)
As ordered by the FOS as the necessary repair has not been carried out, the collection/return and condition of the vehicle is a matter between themselves and Creation 
Send a copy to Creation along with a separate letter listing and totalling the payments plus the interest at 8% giving them 14 days in which to pay in full otherwise you will be issuing Court Proceedings in order to enforce the decision of the FOS
This Will have further cost and regulatory implications for themselves should they fail to pay 
(you really want to avoid court proceedings if at all possible as some DJs do not even realise they have the power to make such an order and it can get hideously complicated)

[theoldrouge]

Just to add when you have made the final payment don’t forget to cancel your direct debit just in case they try and take the balloon payment 

[Hotdog77]

@theoldrouge

Thank you

Just to let you know that I have informed Creation and the dealer.

The final payment should be taken on Monday, then I will cancel the direct debit.   Although I have informed Creations on many occasions about the balloon payment, and I will cancel the direct debit, can they still try to take the payment?  If they were to do this, it would mean a bounced DD and non payment.  Would they then make a note on my credit file?

I'm so concerned about their actions as Creation have been really callous. They were never going to fix the car not issue any monies back.

 

I have the log book and service history in my possession, should I now change the owner on the V5 to creation finance? or leave it as is?

Many thanks

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

as far as i have always understood it, on agreements with a balloon payment, you MUST indicate, when the time comes if you are going to keep the car and pay the balloon or return the car thus negating the balloon payment. 

have you specifically written to the dealer+finance companies indicting to both you would not be keeping the car once the final payment before balloon kicks in?

dx 

[Hotdog77]

@dx100uk  Thanks' for clarifying.

 

As per the advise given by @theoldrouge  I sent  emails to Section 75 within both companies (dealership/finance), I responded on the back of an email I received from Creation (section 75),  where they had advised that the dealership would be in touch to repair the vehicle. I also cc'd other email addresses within both units. 

I received an email today from Creation, informing me that they were forwarding my email to their complaints dept.

I also had to speak to the customer service dept at Creation at the beginning of Sept.  I stated then that I had no interest in keeping the car and will not be making the balloon payment.  

 

Have I followed the correct procedure?

[dx100uk]

not sure what you think section 75 is ? section 75 has noting to do with THIS POINT. 

as the last formal payment under the agreement is coming up, it gives you plenty of time to WRITE to each clearly stating you are not keeping the car and consider the agreement ended. 

that does not mean EMAIL.

dx

 

[Hotdog77]

Ok, no problem.  I'll get that letter posted on Monday.

There are so many departments within both companies, whom would I be addressing these letters to?

In the email that I sent, I did give 14 day notification to pay up or court. Should I still stand my that date?

Where would you suggest I look , to work out the 8%

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

you should not be sending a letter of claim, if that is what it was by EMAIL.

as for the 8% staint sheet