Tfl - using under 16's siblings oyster card 23 times - now single justice court summons

[munchcake]

hi,

i am very worried,

going through a similar where i have been summoned to court.

caught using MIL's freedom pass -poss100+ uses **RESOLVED** - Page 2 - Public transport (Trains, tubes and buses) - Consumer Action Group

 

can you please explain what happens at court - am i able to plead my case and try to avoid a record or is there no hope.

solicitors are charging around £1000 but do not believe my case will succeed ooc

 

i’ve decided to go court but not sure what happens 

Edited January 20, 2022 by dx100uk
formatting

[munchcake]

Hi, I would be really grateful if anyone could help me.

 

I’ve received a letter for court for using a siblings oyster card multiple times.

 

I am 22 and a law student. I know what I did was wrong and I will pay the fine but I am worried that the criminal record will affect my entire career and future before it’s begun.

 

I have contacted solicitors but as it’s a multiple offence and I have no excuse other than being broke (I am in receipt of universal credit), they said i would not succeed. Plus they charge £1000 as they are “saving my career” does this mean my career is doomed?

 

My main questions were about court.

I have never been and do not know the process (if I will be able to plead my case to anyone).

 

I read one forum where someone suggested taking cash and paying it all off which I would like to do but don’t know much about who to approach and ask 

 

Any help would be appreciated thank you

Edited January 8, 2022 by dx100uk
spacing

[dx100uk]

so what did you do with the original TfL letter that gave you 10 days to reply with your version of events? ignored it?

 

have you actually got a Single Justice Procedure court date yet, or are you interpreting the TfL letter with the THREAT of eventual court on it?

 

how many times have you done this and over what period of times please?

 

sorry but as a ruddy law student, you should know 1000 times over you should not of ever done this.

 

dx

 

 

 

[munchcake]

The original letter stated to just plead guilty or not guilty which I said guilty too but as I did not know the number of offences, the solicitors I contacted said they would still want me to plead guilty/not guilty to the number of offences as it’s likely it was multiple. 

 

The court summons letter said that I committed 20+ offences within three months. I did not commit all of them however I do not wish to make the process longer by pleading guilty to some and not all. I just want to resolve this quickly.

 

I agree I should not have done it, I’m hoping this recklessness does not ruin my adulthood 

 

@Jeboz hi just wanted to tag you in this for any advice you may have around court as well anything would really help - very stressed at the moment

[dx100uk]

so you've not begged or offered any out of court settlement yet to TfL by letter? you should have done that in response to the very first letter.

 

the 20+ offences will be TIC.

 

it's the ONE offence on the charge sheet we need to see

please type out what you have actually have as the charge against you from the court.

 

dx

 

[munchcake]

I just replied saying I plead guilty going off my solicitors advice as I did not know any different. His reasons were that after 2020, tfl changed their policy and are now more harsh with OOC and secondly the fact that it’s multiple offences would also make it difficult so he did not draft a letter and I did not do so myself either as he said the chances were less than 10% 

 

Yes, so the letter says:

 

”Contrary to Byelaw 17(1) of the transport for london railway byelaws made under para 26 of schedule 11 to the greater london authority act 1999 and confirmed under section 67 of the transport act 1962”

 

”further investigation into the usage of the pas identified a further 23 journeys she was suspected of making using the pass, avoiding fares of £110.50……an application will be made in court for £250 contribution towards the costs of Transport for London.

 

Will I be able to apologise at court? I do regret this as the biggest mistake I’ve made.

 

Thank you for your help

[dx100uk]

very wrong move.

thats why solicitors sadly are utterly useless and a waste of time and money in these situations

 

i would recommend you get a begging letter off to TfL now, grovelling and offering to pay the eq of all lost fares, fines and admin charges in the hope of an OOC. you need to also include proof, like tickets/season cards etc, that you are now paying your way.

 

OOC's still happen!! there are 100's of threads here with relevant letter extracts you could use. 23 uses is not the end of the world and most certainly not outside of OOC even on the day.

 

what date is your court hearing do you know yet?

 

i will guess this was an under 16 oyster card?

 

 

[munchcake]

Yes, under 16 card and thank you, I will draft a letter and send it here if that’s okay?

 

The date for court is Tuesday 25th  

[munchcake]

Hi, as i am writing the letter i was just wondering if i should mention i am a law student or if this will look bad on me and if i should mention that some journeys were not made by me (or admit to them all)

[honeybee13]

Were the other journeys made by the person whose card it is?

 

HB

[munchcake]

yes but i was with the person so it may look bad either way

[dx100uk]

No it wont. So you have proof you paid on the list of dates of other joint travel?

 

No do not mention law degree etc.

 

Just say degree and it will kill your future.

 

So, come clean please

How many journeys did you make fraudulently??

 

And you should have gotten this letter off 2 weeks ago!!

 

Dx

[munchcake]

21 out of 23 so not a huge difference. I sent a letter to TFL but it was rejected so i am trying to amend it to read out at court 

[dx100uk]

You were going to post up your new begging ooc letter? So you ve sent a new one? What did you say in it?

 

DX

[munchcake]

The first one I apologised, said I have since paid with my bank card and have proof and said I will pay the fine if we can settle out of court. Now that they have said no, I am writing what I will say in court to ask for no criminal record if they reject my OOC on the day

[dx100uk]

Nope send a new begging letter.

 

the format of which is in numerous threads here.

 

 

[munchcake]

will they respond before tuesday? also, can you show me where one of the examples are 

[dx100uk]

Cag is self help too

you were advised to look here 2 weeks ago?

have you actually since you came here done that at all?

 

I suspect not, if you had you would have seen the example letters and also seen that you can of course send them close to your appearance. You can also approach the officer on the day.

 

20 uses is small fry, many have had 2 or 3 times that figure and still achieved ooc some on the day. There is also the fact of they have given a list of tic's. Have you signed that and replied to the court. Saying you are pleading guilty in person yet??

 

Dx

[munchcake]

i am confused. i read threads and used it to write the original letter (threads have said to add proof etc) but i did not see anything on how to do an on the day ooc maybe i missed it 

 

the court letter has been signed and i intend to plead guilty but i have not sent it as it says i can take it with my on the day

[honeybee13]

See what other people think, but are you dealing with two separate issues here? The letter you're trying to write is for you to read to the court, if I understand you.

 

To get an OOC settlement, you would need to speak in person with TfL's prosecutor on the day and put your case. You would need to turn up early and be able to pay all the missed fares and their 'reasonable admin' costs -  in cash.

 

HB

[munchcake]

I see so I should approach the TFL prosecutor and ask him/give him a letter? 

[honeybee13]

I don't remember anyone handing a letter to the prosecutor, I thought our people always spoke to them. Maybe someone else will know.

 

HB

[munchcake]

okay thank you. hopefully doesn’t look like bribery i will try this 

[dx100uk]

you should not be giving up after your 1st letter to TfL.

even if they refuse OOC, you write AGAIN with a better pleading letter or even two!! be a nuisance!!

 

on the day you can approach and talk to the prosecutions officer before the case and further plead in person before you got in.

 

did you have with the court paperwork a list of charges taken into consideration to sign, as well as the sheet for the ONE example offence they are actually prosecuting over?

 

they dont normally prosecute for all uses just ONE charge everything else is in a TIC list you sign for each TIC offence.

 

dx

 

[honeybee13]

dx, I think the court case is on Tuesday next week.

 

HB