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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
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Ground Rent/Maintenance fees on leasehold property.


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Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum.

I am HOPING you can give me some advice that can help me.

 

I am 68 years old and I currently own a leasehold property for which I have to pay (extortionate) monthly fees for Ground rent and Maintenance to a management company. During 2020, I managed to pay only for 6 months and then ended up in financial difficulty due to Covid. I was barely able to make ends meet.

 

I stopped paying the maintenance fees around June 2020. My plan was to pay them a lump sum at the end of the year, when things go back to normal and my financial situation improved. Government advised things would go back to normal but unfortunately this didn't happen and I ended up in a lot of debt. I even had to sell my car to pay back money I had borrowed from family members.

 

I live alone and this whole pandemic situation has really affected me mentally. To make matters worse, because I wasn't able to pay the lump sum as I originally had planned, the management company consulted a solicitor (Realty Law) to help them recover this outstanding debt. The initial debt was £596.00 + £36.15 for interest (no idea where this interest came from). The solicitors have now added on legal fees of £721.50 increasing the total debt to £1353.65. I contacted them via email and offered to pay £50 a month for the time being until I can improve my financial situation, at which point I would pay them more. Their response was the following:

'Our client has advised that they cannot honour a payment plan for that duration and therefore we have been instructed to continue our recovery process and request judgment if payment has not been made by 2pm on 29th October 2021.

As such, we request that you please make full payment of £1353.65 as per the attached arrears schedule by 2pm on 29th October 2021. If payment or correspondence has not been received by then, then we shall be continuing with further recovery action and issuing a county court judgement (CCJ) which will incur additional fees.


You are entitled to seek your own legal advice.'
 

The whole idea of court proceedings and CCJs and ADDITIONAL FEES has really elevated my anxiety levels to the point I am struggling to get to sleep at night. I borrowed money from family members and used some money that I had saved to pay off the initial £596.00, but its not possible for me to come up with the £700+ for the solicitor fees by 29th October. How is it even acceptable to charge someone £700+ in legal fees for a few letters? 

 

Can someone please give me some advise on what on earth to do or who on earth I can speak to. I am desperate here. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance
 

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So they have not actually issued a Court claim yet ? If they did that, then it would enable you time to seek advice, defend, go through mediation and then come to an affordable repayment arrangement. They are just trying to frighten you into finding ways to come up with money to pay them.

 

In regard to Solicitors/legal fees, you would need to check the leasehold agreement, which should include details of the ground rent/maintenance arrangement with a management company. The leasehold agreement you sign may make you liable for reasonable legal fees incurred by the management company. 

 

If you can afford to pay the ground rent element, then that might be a sensible thing to do and pay this to the management company directly.

 

Do you have financial breakdown information showing how much is ground rent, what the maintenance fees cover, how much is management companies fees etc? You are entitled to this information, so should ask the management company for it.

 

Have you contacted your local Council Authority about help available ? Depending on your financial situation, there may be help available.  Government  have provided Councils with extra money to help those who have suffered financially because of Covid. There are discretionary Housing funds that you can apply for.

 

 

 

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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On 28/10/2021 at 06:28, unclebulgaria67 said:

So they have not actually issued a Court claim yet ? If they did that, then it would enable you time to seek advice, defend, go through mediation and then come to an affordable repayment arrangement. They are just trying to frighten you into finding ways to come up with money to pay them.

 

In regard to Solicitors/legal fees, you would need to check the leasehold agreement, which should include details of the ground rent/maintenance arrangement with a management company. The leasehold agreement you sign may make you liable for reasonable legal fees incurred by the management company. 

 

If you can afford to pay the ground rent element, then that might be a sensible thing to do and pay this to the management company directly.

 

Do you have financial breakdown information showing how much is ground rent, what the maintenance fees cover, how much is management companies fees etc? You are entitled to this information, so should ask the management company for it.

 

Have you contacted your local Council Authority about help available ? Depending on your financial situation, there may be help available.  Government  have provided Councils with extra money to help those who have suffered financially because of Covid. There are discretionary Housing funds that you can apply for.

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, I just want to thank you for taking the time out and responding to my message. I really appreciate this.

 

Not issued a court claim yet, but are threatening to take me to court. I haven't currently got a copy of the leasehold agreement, but £700+ in legal fees for a debt that was £596 doesn't seem reasonable to me. I have paid the £596, which was the initial debt before legal fees were added on. Unfortunately I have paid this directly to the solicitors before I saw your message. Do you think the solicitors will take me to court for the legal fees? If yes, what is the likelihood of the judge ruling in their favour, and me ending up in even more debt?

 

I have not contacted the council authority, but I will definitely look into this.

 

 

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Suggest that you tell the management company that you have paid the Solicitors the £596 relating to ground rent/maintenance and while you are writing to them, ask for a copy of the accounts for the maintenance fees stating what the fees are covering.

 

When you bought the property you should have received a copy of the leasehold agreement and if there have been any changes since, you should have been sent a copy of the revised agreement. If you don't have this, ask for a copy, but they may charge you an admin fee.

 

The Solicitors should pay the management company the £596, but be prepared for them not doing so. They may decide to pass on only a proportion of the money and keep some of it. This then leaves a debt for the ground rent/maintenance. Hence why you should ensure the management  company are made aware in writing that the £596 paid to the Solicitors is only for ground rent and maintenance fees.

 

You need to start being a bit more careful with how you handle these matters. Yes you could be taken to Court, as the leasehold agreement will allow fees to be charged including these Solicitors fees.  Not sure you want to be in Court arguing if the Solicitors fees are reasonable or not.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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