Hermes lost parcel - claim launched . **WON**

[murraynt]

7 days since the day of service but no reply from Hermes. Hopefully they respond  this week but I do expect them to file an  Acknowledgment of Service and extend for a further 14 days. I will update when something changes. 

[murraynt]

Hermes have submitted an AOS. 

 

[murraynt]

Hello all

 

Hermes have filed their defence stating that I have already received £26.99 compensation, which is untrue as I never accepted the payment. 

I suppose next step is to request judgement? 
 

 

[murraynt]

Sorry BankFodder. Uploading the file must have reduced the resolution. 

I have uploaded to imgur  which has maintained the resolution.

[BankFodder]

Okay, nothing surprising here.

Of course your position on their payment will be that it was a payment made unilaterally by them without any prior agreement from you and therefore you take it that it is a part payment of your claim

[murraynt]

Thanks BankFodder. Should I Request Judgement now? 

[BankFodder]

You won't be able to request a judgement because they have put in a defence. I'm afraid that you will have to let things take their course a little bit and eventually you will get an allocation/directions questionnaire which will require you to pay a fee if you wanted to go on.

 

For the size of the claim – which is quite small – I can't see it really going all the way. I can imagine that they will put up their hands – but you can never be sure

 

[murraynt]

Seems I was getting a bit ahead of my self. Thanks for the advice BankFodder. I will sit tight and come back when I get an update. 

[murraynt]

I've received my questionnaire and I've filled it out, except for the mediation section. Do I want to mediate with hermes?  

[BankFodder]

I have always been against mediation. Please follow the mediation link to see what I think about it and it really is calculated to get you to compromise over some of your rights.

However, it seems to be becoming more common and more preferred to try mediation and for such a small sum, may be you should go ahead. However, it is a small sum so there is very little to lose and if I were you I would go into mediation extremely bullish and stand your ground for every penny including your costs.

Hermes will try to get you down at least by the extent of your costs and maybe try to fob you off with a hundred quid in full and final settlement. Really there is so little at stake I think that your best bet would be to say to the mediator/Hermes that if they want to go to court then fine. You will get the court to agree that their "insurance" requirement is an unfair term and that once you get that judgement you will make sure that everybody knows about it – everywhere – and Hermes will then have to deal with an enormous number of claims.

I think this should be your bargaining position and that you explain to Hermes that if they settle up your claim in full as well as your costs then there will be no judgement against them and no risk of a lot of publicity about their fake and unfair insurance scheme.

They will try to get you down about 20 quid or so and frankly it so little, you have nothing to lose by telling Hermes that you are prepared to go head-to-head in court and get the judgement which will destroy them once it is published.

You can also point out that Hermes are being ridiculous spending so much money trying to crush your claim – far more than your claim is worth. These people are really taking it personally and they are completely pigheaded.

[BankFodder]

By the way, you will probably even come under pressure from the mediator to compromise.

I think you're starting position should be "I'm not here to compromise on my rights. I've only agreed to mediation in order to save Hermes further money and expense and also embarrassment of going to court and losing. That's my offer. If they don't want it then they should say so and we will go to court."

[murraynt]

I have a Mediation date of 08/10/2020

[BankFodder]

Thanks. Let me refresh my memory and I'll come back to you with maybe a few suggestions – in case they might be helpful

[BankFodder]

[BankFodder]

Firstly – stand your ground. This is such a small amount that there is no reason to give way on it. Even if you have to go to court hearing – stand your ground. The hearing will not be face-to-face. It will be a telephone or video hearing.

Secondly, their whole defence is based on the fact that you didn't take out their insurance – which they call "compensation".

This question of compensation insurance and whether it is enforceable is so fundamental to what Hermes are doing, that for this kind of money there is no way that they will risk going to a County Court and having a judgement against them on it. If it went to County Court and you won the case – which is highly likely – then we would make sure that this judgement is published in the press and all over the Internet.
Although it would not set a binding precedent, it would be hugely influential and it would begin a spate of claims against Hermes and also all the other courier companies which have the same system in place. Of course it is a disreputable system.

• Firstly Hermes say that you "took out compensation" – not true. You have no option. Their so-called insurance requirement is obligatory and simply changes according to different levels. So that it is untrue for them to say that you took anything out  - suggesting that it was a matter of choice.

 

• Secondly, it is unfair that you should be required to protect yourself against their negligence. Any prudent company should ensure itself against errors and claims by its customers. This happened throughout all industries but for some reason rather the courier industry has developed a different culture which has come to be accepted – although there is no legal rule which says that it must be this way.

 

• Thirdly, you have no option because all the other courier companies operate the same system so this does not mean that you deliberately chose Hermes or that you could have deliberately avoided Hermes and go to somewhere else where this compensation requirement would not apply. In that respect you are captive.

 

• Fourthly, it is completely open to Hermes to restructure their pricing system so that they alter their delivery fees according to a tariff of parcel values. This would be clear and transparent and would probably be a reasonable approach. Hermes have chosen not to do this. In alignment with the rest of the industry, there attempt to force their customers to buy some kind of insurance against Hermes own negligence or the dishonesty of their own employees.

 

• Fifthly, this insurance is needed even if it is not a question of Hermes negligence – but it is needed as a result of Hermes employee criminality. This means that Hermes distances itself from all wrongdoing whether it is by its own employees or by Hermes itself.

 

• Sixthly, the term of the contract which limits the liability of Hermes in respect of his contractual breaches or its negligent acts is unfair under the Consumer Rights Act and if Hermes insist on it going to court then the judge will be invited to exercise his/her duty to consider the fairness of the term as he/she is required to do under the 2015 act.

 

• Seventh by limiting compensation for damage or loss, Hermes is attempting by its contract to limit the power of the court to make awards of damages.

 

Because this is telephone mediation, you will be able to have a list of these points in front of you. I suggest that you understand them and you are able to say them in your own words so that you sound as if you know what you're doing and you are confident.

Don't forget that Hermes probably monitors this thread – but who cares. Don't forget also that you are only talking about £120 and Hermes would be thoroughly stupid to take the risk of this going to court and succeeding.

Stand your ground. They will try to reduce you down by 20 or 30 quid – I suggest you refuse. Make sure you insist on your costs being paid. I can't remember if you claimed interest – but if you did then insist on it.

Insist on every penny. Hermes have already spent more than the claim is worth trying to resist this. They're completely stupid and bullying and are incapable of making sensible business decisions.

 

[murraynt]

Update: 

Mediation ended with a Full payout of £151.99 due to be paid by 22/010/2020. Hopefully this is the end of the road now and Hermes will pay within the time frame, although I can't see any reason why they wouldn't. 

 

To anybody else that has had to lose money due to Hermes being negligent, this process is not as daunting as it may first appear. The entire process took around 15 weeks and cost £30 which i am due to receive back from Hermes. Although the entire process took a while there was really very little work to do thanks to the help from this forum and Bank fodder. 

 

BankFodder- Thank you so much for your help. The Information you have provided has been invaluable and hope you continue to do what you do. Donation incoming to help the people in the future. 

[BankFodder]

Thank you. I'm very pleased for you of course – and very grateful that you are updating us.

It's great that you found it so reasonably straightforward and that you are letting other people know about this.

I wonder if you wouldn't mind describing the interaction with Hermes through the mediator from the moment that the exchange began – and also maybe tell us a bit about any preparation that you put in hand.
I think that would be very useful for people and I might put it or a version of it into the library for guidance.

[syd16]

That is great news murrayant! I would also be interested in knowing the details of your interaction with Hermes through this mediation, I have a telephone mediation for my own case set for 19th October.

[murraynt]

Sorry for the delay all. 

1: I got a call at around 3.30 PM where the mediator introduced them selves, confirmed what the intention of the mediation was and asked if I was willing to settle the case today and to willing to be flexible with the defendant. I replied and said I was willing to settle the case and I was willing to be flexible with Hermes by not going to court but I was not willing to budge on the £151.99. The mediator said that this was not the function of the mediation and I was expected to settle for a reduced sum of money. I repeated that I wasn't willing to reduce the monetary value but I was willing not to bring Hermes to court. The mediator told me they would bring this news to Hermes and call me back later. 

 

2: I received a call back from the mediator at around 3.50 PM. The stance from Hermes was that I did not take out the insurance but as a good will gesture they were willing to cover the cost of the postage + the value of the lost item. they were not willing to pay the £30 odd pounds that it cost me to raise the claim. I again repeated that I wasn't willing to settle for a reduced sum of money and if we went to court it would cost Hermes a lot more than £151. Again the mediator said that this was not the function of a mediation but still went back to hermes. 

3: After a 25 minute  wait the mediator called me back saying Hermes would pay the full amount and all i had to do was send my bank details to a person in Hermes. The Mediator then read out the claim and told me a copy would be sent to both partied Via email and that was it. 

 

For prep all I did was read the bullet points posted on here and re construct them in my own words. The mediation was very snappy and I wasn't given the time to defend my case and use the bullet points on here but never the less it was good to have the ammo in my back pocket. The mediator made me feel like a mediation wasn't the correct option, but I remembered that Bankofdder said they would try and push me into settlement.  Over all i'm happy that I ticked the mediation box. 

 

 

[murraynt]

On 09/10/2020 at 08:21, syd16 said:

That is great news murrayant! I would also be interested in knowing the details of your interaction with Hermes through this mediation, I have a telephone mediation for my own case set for 19th October.

I've had a look at your thread and yours does seems slightly more complicated than mine. After going through the process last week my only piece of advice would be to created a very short snappy statement that you can give to the Mediator. 

Do you have any questions that I can help with?   

[BankFodder]

Well done. Very well done indeed.

I think it shameful that the mediator tried to join with Hermes to push you into reduction. That is not at all the function of mediation. The function of mediation is not to persuade you to give up some of your rights. The function of mediation is to help you obtain what you are entitled to without having to go to court and without having to inconvenience or trouble anyone further. The benefit to the defendant is that they are saved the expense and the inconvenience of going to court.

I think the mediator behaved outrageously and I think they have lost sight of their true function.

Well done to you.

Thank you for this update – it is extremely useful.

Bravo

[syd16]

Great! This is very useful.

 

I suspect that the mediator's aim is to try and get the case is settled out of court so would maybe try and influence you to take up the initial offer but I'll stand my ground and wont accept a penny less.

 

Given the circumstances that I won't be given much time to defend myself I will work on having a short statement ready to make my point clear. My argument is under different circumstances of course but your case has been very helpful so thank you.

 

I don't have any questions around the mediation process, that seems clear to me now. Just wondering have you now been paid by Hermes?

[murraynt]

Just received payment this morning. 

[BankFodder]

13 minutes ago, murraynt said:

Just received payment this morning. 

 

That was quick.

 

Did they use UPS?

[murraynt]

Just regular bank transfer