Managing Agent leasehold Property 4th Court Claim same issue.

[BlurredFX]

Looks like they have not issued default judgment on your counterclaim. Not my strongest area this, so perhaps call the court and ask why the counterclaim has been ignored.

 

Good advice there DonkeyB. Phoned the Court, spoke to a lovely girl, who said she will refer the matter back to the DJ for further direction about the Counterclaim.

 

Ah well, all in all, not the worst news I have ever received on a Friday! It's progress, and for now at least, there is no hearing to attend!

 

I am just mindful of the DJ's attitude when I first went in asking for the set-aside, he said "I have only ever seen a handful of these cases go the way of the Defendant Mr Blurred", and made me go through my case to make sure I understood it. Once I had communicated it to him, and he had his questions, he seemed happier with me - but his presumption is clearly that I am in the wrong. Typical. Ah well, it's been going on since 2009, I can live with it for a bit longer... It's going the right way though...

 

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[DonkeyB]

Good! Keep us informed. Hopefully someone with a better knowledge of how the court handles counterclaims in such cases can help further. I imaging the courts don’t get a lot of situations like this, so it will be interesting to monitor the mechanics of it.

 

Also, I imagine the order allowed seven days for the claimant to apply to set aside the order?

[BlurredFX]

Also, I imagine the order allowed seven days for the claimant to apply to set aside the order?

Nope.

 

There is nothing to mention about setting aside this order. What I wrote as a quotation above is everything on the piece of paper, apart from the Courts seal, General Form Of Judgement or Order, and who it is to and from and what not. Where my quotation ends, is where the text on the order ends, bar yesterdays date a couple of lines below it. I can scan the lot up if needs be I suppose.

 

I will spare the details (unless anyone asks), they are all in the thread, but this is their second attempt in Court. I defended the first case, they withdrew, then tried again at a different Court and claim number when I was ill and got away with it as a result, and then took the money from Mortgage Co under threat of repossession.

 

12 Months later, When I first applied to have the case set-aside, they didn't turn up. I have no idea if they subsequently filed an AQ or not; I certainly posted mine. I got an order two weeks ago saying the Claimant had until last week to pay the hearing fee. He has clearly failed, nd this order has come through today.

 

I have submitted a wealth of evidence for this, and attended the hearing, and they have submitted nothing and not attended any hearings for the second case, or as far as I am aware responded to the Court in any way. I suppose the DJ could be well and truly peeved with their previous and recent conduct, that he is of the opinion that they have had plenty of chances to respond??? We can speculate all day I suppose!!

 

Waiting for the Postman I suppose. Never thought I would say that!!

 

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[andydd]

Its hard to say, it appears to be almost identical to my claim, their (my freeholder's) claim was struck out and I got an almost identical letter from court, the counterclaim was forgot about my all untill i went to court office and reminded them, just looked through my paperwork and couldnt find anything..think I just went along and said Oi..what about my counterclaim, it then it started.

 

I remember speaking to the FH solicitor at court and he didnt know about CC either, although he and FH had fallen out and he announced he wasnt represnting him anymore so didnt really care.

 

As long as your CC was on your original defence (and you paid fee) then it will all happen even if court have made a few cock ups.

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

Its hard to say, it appears to be almost identical to my claim, their (my freeholder's) claim was struck out and I got an almost identical letter from court, the counterclaim was forgot about my all untill i went to court office and reminded them, just looked through my paperwork and couldnt find anything..think I just went along and said Oi..what about my counterclaim, it then it started.

 

I remember speaking to the FH solicitor at court and he didnt know about CC either, although he and FH had fallen out and he announced he wasnt represnting him anymore so didnt really care.

 

As long as your CC was on your original defence (and you paid fee) then it will all happen even if court have made a few cock ups.

 

Seems to chime with my claim being missed.

 

The girl at the court on Friday afternoon said she would refer it back to the DJ for further direction on the CC, so I will call them Tues pm-ish I guess.

 

What are the possible outcomes for my CC? He grants it, schedules a hearing, or strikes it out??

 

You'd like to think common sense would prevail - the claim's been struck out, so give the Defendant his money back!! What possible justification could there be for their keeping hold of it??

 

Why do I think that common sense won't prevail???

 

ah well, at least it's gone my way thus far.

 

Blurred:)

[andydd]

Well..if/when your CC finally gets going, it appears you do have a case and (like me) it may be helped if the other side continue to make cock ups, I was lucky in that my FH and his new solicitor were still reeling from their claim being struck out and me getting costs and agreed to mediation, which went ok..but was just haggling really, the offered £50 and I wanted £350 and settled on £275. This was my second claim for damages for failing to repair driveway.

 

Preparation is the key, one thing I noticed is that as a LiP I spent many many hours on my case wheras my FH's solicitor always appeared rushed and prob spent 30 mins on preparing their claim.

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

I have had a communication from the Court. I like it.

 

It reads:

 

Re: Case Number 1ABDFHDU The Other Side v Blurredfx

Upon referring the Court file to the District Judge, the following comments have been made:

 

" The Counteclaim continues. The directions set out in the order of yyth May (sic) remain. The hearing of the defendants counterclaim remains listed for the xxth May 2013 at 10.00am"

 

Yours faithfully

 

I think there is an error where they mean yyth April not yyth May, where (as per my earlier post) it was ordered:

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

The Claimant having failed to pay the hearing fee as required by the Court, the claim has been struck out and the Claimant is liable to pay the Defendants costs unless the Court orders otherwise.

 

There was me getting all excited about the prospect of not going to Court again, yet dreading a dragged out CC, and it seems the hearing is scheduled for one month. Suits me, even if I am not a fan of Court - having been over half a dozen times in various disputes.

 

Their claim has been struck out. Given that my Counterclaim is for monies paid under the original, now struck out, claim, am I wrong for feeling at least a tiny bit optimistic?? Optimistic that now their claim is struck out, I might finally, two years on, get my thousands of pounds back? Or at least an order for it anyway...

 

I am feeling positive. Should I be??

 

I think my next step should be to go through everything I have submitted to the Court for my CC, and make sure everything is correct for that - my defence is now not relevant? Perhaps draw up a proper costs schedule with interest and everything.

 

And a nice costs schedule!! As they have been ordered to pay my costs unless the Court orders otherwise!

 

Perhaps, just perhaps, the Judge's comments when I went into the first hearing that he's seen "only a handful of these go the way of the Defendant" may now be ringing in his ears!!

 

We live in ope!!

 

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[DonkeyB]

Good news. Wonder if they’ll even turn up?

 

Bearing in mind you are fighting a company, check its status with Companies House website.

[BlurredFX]

Good news. Wonder if they’ll even turn up?

 

I have a very strong feeling they won't attend. Why would they change their tune all of a sudden? They have remained silent over the whole application to Set-aside and neglected to pay their fees. I would be interested to know if they submitted their AQ - if they have it rules out them getting away with saying the never knew about it, but who knows on that one, I suppose I could phone the Court and ask if they got an AQ back or not.

 

Bearing in mind you are fighting a company, check its status with Companies House website.

 

The company I am fighting is a funny proposition. Quite unique I would have thought - as per this whole case. It's a very complex case, and I could soon boggle you unless you have read the whole thread in detail!! I can try an explain if you like, perhaps PM or something?

 

BUT, importantly, they do have an income - the "service charges" they get off everyone who is happy with the current arrangement!! And the money is held in the Client Account of the unofficial, proven to be liars "Managing Agent" that has been the driving force behind the legal action against me, in cahoots with the residents company. They have lied to the Court and the Court is starting to see that. Given that, I can't see them being forthcoming with any money

 

The company who has its name to the action, the "residents company" has a Director and a Company Secretary. One of the Directors is resident in the block, not sure about the company secretary yet. I'll do a little digging - she was resident at one point, I know that but I don't know what she looks like!

 

I had a look last night as to ways of collecting the money, and there is a variety of options that seem to have some prospect of at least getting something to happen!?!? The key seems to be that all parties involved, them and the people holding their money can all be pinned down to an address and documents served easily if that is what is required. I have had a look at Third Party Debt Orders and/or compelling the Directors to give an account of themselves before the Court (not a DJ at first tho). Failure to comply leaves the individuals in contempt of Court, liable to a personal fine and ultimately a jail sentence, I believe. But that is what I garnered late last night, so lets not get ahead of ourselves Possibly a winding up order?

 

I should imagine there are plenty of victims of sharp DCA's on here, but I wonder if there is any experience of collecting monies owed, especially with a rogue company and not a well-to-do-Bank (ho ho ho). It certainly seems a useful consumer issue - the amount of rat bags going round stealing from people out there!! It's one thing understanding the theory, it's quite another getting it past a DJ.

 

I feel like we are getting somewhere, but I need to review what I have already sent to the Court; strip out everything I submitted as a Defence, leaving only my CounterClaim and re-submit it - just make the pile of papers the DJ needs to read a easier. There is no merit in clouding the issue.

 

What do we think guys???

 

Blurred:)

[BlurredFX]

I am sure some people are stupid!!

 

Not that it is especially relevant to anything I don't suppose , but I have just had an invoice for overdue "service charges" from The Other Side. Interestingly, amongst other dubious and nefarious items (£75 for a letter anyone??), contains all the short comings I have illustrated in my defence!!! It's simply not valid. 7 point, dodgily photocopied Rights and Responsibilities etc... No LL name etc.,

 

AND there was £450 for legal fees and Court Costs - AHEM!!!! Don't I have a Court Order saying that YOU are paying MY costs???

 

Ah well, don't think it is relevant, just thought I should let the group know! Holler if you think it is important!!

 

I can only presume it is some kind of intimidation technique??? Does he read his Court Orders? Whatever.

 

Blurred:)

[DonkeyB]

I think it shows contempt of court. Add it as evidence to your counterclaim, evidence of their deliberately misleading and vexatious behaviour in the affair.

[citizenB]

Perhaps they don't understand that it is they who have to pay your costs. By what date were they supposed to have coughed up ?

[BlurredFX]

I think it shows contempt of court. Add it as evidence to your counterclaim, evidence of their deliberately misleading and vexatious behaviour in the affair.

 

I think you'd right be right there, DonkeyB!! I shall include it, and naturally it has taken me half an hour to consider it, so it will go in my costs schedule as well!

 

Unless, they think that they are the defendant (as I did) when the Court wrote:

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

The Claimant having failed to pay the hearing fee as required by the Court, the claim has been struck out and the Claimant is liable to pay the Defendants costs unless the Court orders otherwise.

 

And now think they have won or something??? That I am due to pay their costs??

 

They have included two schedules, one says legal fees and names a solicitor, and the other one says Court Fees?!?!?

 

BUT I HAVE A COURT ORDER SAYING THE OPPOSITE!!!

 

I have a funny feeling they have assumed (again, as I did) that the hearing for the end of May has been cancelled!! I shalln't be telling them anything to the contrary!!

 

The mind boggles, but hey ho, I can bill them for it. Not that I hold out much hope of getting the money, but we can live in hope.

 

Blurred:)

[BlurredFX]

Perhaps they don't understand that it is they who have to pay your costs. By what date were they supposed to have coughed up ?

 

Their case has been struck out due to none payment of fees! See my post on the 19th April. They were due to pay up early April sometime.

 

Blurred:!:

[DonkeyB]

I think you should be considering enforcement action against them in advance of your counterclaim hearing. It will give you a heads-up as to whether they are going to dissolve themselves or play ball.

 

They will also learn very sharply how serious you are about this.

 

I have a feeling they are going to start claiming soon that they have received no paperwork re their case – there’s some clear bluff in their approach. I can smell it.

[BlurredFX]

I think you should be considering enforcement action against them in advance of your counterclaim hearing. It will give you a heads-up as to whether they are going to dissolve themselves or play ball.

 

They will also learn very sharply how serious you are about this.

 

I have a feeling they are going to start claiming soon that they have received no paperwork re their case – there’s some clear bluff in their approach. I can smell it.

 

I will call the Court tomorrow and see if they filed their AQ - that should tell us something. In the past when dealing with this lot, they have filed their AQ and forgot to pay their charges until they have been reminded by way of an order.

 

I also sent my Defence and CC to them "signed for", or Special Delivery, I forget which. I will have to trawl through everything to find that. You just know it is going to be somewhere silly lol BUT rather find it now than be hunting for it after the next hearing having had the case adjourned!!

 

In terms of enforcement, I have done some simple internet research and was thinking along the lines of a TPDO to the bank we are supposed to pay our service charges to - I have the account details, and also serving on to the rogue management agent who forms the other half of "The Other Side".

 

Then, if that fails, I was thinking of dragging the Director of the company to Court, and also the Company Secretary, possibly - but she knows little of this as far as I know, so it could have other implications.

 

I have not discovered any other viable options, and am uncertain of the viability of the courses of action I have outlined. I think they are both a simple matter of filling in a Court form - though you actually have to serve the Order for the Director to attend Court on the Director personally - like on the tele!!

[BlurredFX]

I have the receipt - I sent it Special Delivery to them and the Court - must have been flush that day. Anyway, I never did the track-and-trace afterwards, and the Royal Mail system isn't letting me check either online or on the phone - it was mid Feb I sent it, so I guess I might have to go into the PO Branch tomorrow to get confirmation.

 

Blurred:)

[BlurredFX]

Drat and double drat. I have just checked the reference for the other letter I sent - to the Court - and that is coming back as "delivered". I guess that means that they must have refused my Special Delivery or something?? I have proof of postage anyway!! See what the Post Office says in the morning I suppose!

 

Why does this not surprise me?? I really could swear quite a lot now but I will refrain. Just need to hope they have returned their AQ!!

 

Mind you, there has been enough letters from the Court to them, and suddenly they have sent me a bill for legal fees, so one might hope the Court will see their subterfuge for what is it! The more I think of it, the more it tickles me that they have suddenly sent a bill!! I have not heard from them since October last year, then shortly following a Court Order for them to pay my costs, they send me a bill!!!

 

This behaviour just keeps ya guessing, that's the problem. Sets the mind off a wondering...

 

Cheers,

 

Blurred:)

[BlurredFX]

Just thought on, I have until two weeks before the hearing to get another set of documents to them!!

 

I'm off to bed. Thinking too ,uch!!

 

FX

[DonkeyB]

As I said - I can smell their tactics!

[BlurredFX]

As I said - I can smell their tactics!

 

How can they claim non receipt of ALL the Court documents though?

 

Are they really going to try and get their claim re-instated??? Surely they would have to come up with something to make the DJ think there is a reasonable prospect of them getting somewhere??

 

The important question, is what can I do about it??

 

Their claim has been struck out due to none payment of fees, despite a Order from the Court that they pay their fee. So my defence doesn't need dealing with again.

 

I am sure they think they are the defendant since I started the CC! It would explain a lot.

[DonkeyB]

The important question, is what can I do about it??

 

Do they have an office as such? If so, High Court Enforcement Officer – will cost a few quid, but it goes on their bill.

[AndyOrch]

Or even a Stat Demand subject to the value.

[DonkeyB]

Problem with a stat demand against a company is following it through – it would be High Court rather than County, with the associated extra costs. There is no facility for a company to set aside an SD, other than by paying, and your subsequent action would have to be a winding up order.

 

Not that we’d ever suggest you should use an SD as a debt collection tool...

[BlurredFX]

Stat Demand - thought that was for private individuals only? Winding up order to too costly and wouldn't be very effective.

 

HCEO route is not likely as there is no property of the company at the registered address is the offices of the Management Company. There are about 50 companies registered at the address.

 

Winding up order is about £1500 isn't it? I do not have that type of cash, especially when it is not guaranteed to get the money - as they may go skint before it ever gets paid.

 

I was thinking of serving a Third Part Debot Order on the Man Co and also the Bank into which people pay their fees - this effectively seizes their bank account but it isnt that simple. I have links to solicitors firms that give a good idea of what is involved if anyone wants them via PX as Iwont be allowed to paste them up here.

 

The other option I was thinking is getting the Directors of the company to appear in Court to explain themselves.

 

I can see these last two options being the only viable ones. Does anyone have any experience??

 

Blurrred:)