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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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UKCPS MNPR non pofa PCN - No Stopping - lease co paid it - want me or my company to pay them! - Gateway Hse Manchester Piccadilly -


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Hi,

 

My leasing company recently got a charge through from UKCPS, I've attached all correspondence in the PDF.

Although i would usually ignore this as the NTK had not been received within 14 days

the lease company has suggested that they are going to pay the fine and invoice my company/me (as this is a company car).

 

Can you offer any advice on how best to proceed? 

 

If you require any more information please let me know. As always, thank you very much for taking the time to look into this.

 

1 Date of the infringement 29/10/19

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]15th November 2019

 

3 Date received 15/10/2019

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Unsure, not that I can see displayed on the letter

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] No

 

7 Who is the parking company? UKCPS

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Gateway House Piccadilly, Manchester

Letters and Emails.pdf

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it is NOT A FINE

 

they need to read their own T&C's.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKCPS MNPR non pofa PCN - No Stopping - lease co paid it - want me or my company to pay them! - Gateway Hse Manchester Piccadilly -

Politely? Not so sure about that bit. You need to make it absolutely clear that it isnt a FINE, there is no keeper liability and you wont be paying them back for being ignorant of the procedures.

Forceful isnt the same as being rude but they must be under no illusion that you are going to settle this matter by paying them

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Haha politely and forceful.

 

Update :

I got this from my employers:

 

"I can confirm that no admin fees will be deducted from your salary at this stage, however if we do not receive a confirmation of charge cancellation from you, issued by UKCPS in the next couple of weeks then the admin fees will be applied.

If in addition, the lease company bills us back for settling the PCN GCL11023 then our payroll team will have to deduct that from your salary as per company car policy, as we are not responsible for the driver’s fines.

If you wish to appeal the fine, please do so by contacting UKCPS and not the lease company as it’s not them who have issued the fine."

 

I then got a screen grab of the company policy which apparently applies, See attached.

 

I intend on going back with the following:

 

"In reference to the attached parking charge this is not unlawful or a motoring offence. The parking charge is not a fine, and the way I was parked wasn’t in breach of any motoring laws. Therefor this wouldn’t apply to the section of the policy that has been sent, there is no keeper liability and I am not liable to pay the charge.

 

I would advise neither you or Lex pay the private parking charge as the NTK was not within 14 days of incident that they allege to have happened, but I cannot stop you. I would be happy for you or Lex to pass my name onto them for them to contact me directly.

 

What is the agreed policy that Lex mentioned? Have NCC group agree to pay private parking charges(again, this is not the same as a fine)?"

 

Is there anything else you think is worth mentioning?

 

Doc1.pdf

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The fact that as Lex have provided them with your name and address as the driver, that exonerates Lex fom any further action by UKPCS.

Protection of Freedoms Act 

Schedule  4

13 

(2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given—

(a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b)a copy of the hire agreement; and

(c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

 

If Lex have bothered to read the PCNs and sent them the details required [your hire agreement etc] they would no longer be liable to pay the amount even if you refuse to pay it.

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Well your employers have sent you a load of b****cks where they get everything wrong and state it's a fine, which of course it isn't.

 

Only you can know your situation at work and what you can get away with and what you can't.

 

Ideally however you should have a real go back saying they are ignorant of the law and it isn't a fine.  All Lex have to do is provide the fleecers with your details, and they and the company are out of the loop, which even the fleecers state if Lex had bothered to read it (when that happens please come back here for advice BTW).

 

If they don't accept your explanation then ideally you should make it clear you will sue them for return of any monies they deduct from your salary as they can't work out the difference between a speculative invoice and a fine and don't even follow their own company policy. 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks, gone back and said i want to take a look at the agreement in place with Lex on this issue and asked that they simply pass my name and address on to the company that sent the charge through.

The lovely lady who sorts the fleet out for our company has tried to process a change in liability to my self. See response below from UKCPS below:

Thank you for your appeal regarding ticket number ***.

A response will be sent to you within 28 days from the date that the appeal was received.

We will however endeavour to respond to your appeal within 14 days but this may not always be possible.

Please ensure that you check your junk mail in case the appeal response is diverted there.

We recommend that you add our e-mail address to your safe senders list to ensure delivery.

 

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you should NEVER give these fleecers and email address!!

 

once this part is resolved you need to tell them the email address is no longer active and not to use it ever again.

 

it has been known for PPC's to drag up old email addresses and use to issue important court documents to it if they ever issue a court claim in the future

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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:rockon:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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your employer is heading towards an unlawful deduction of wages, let them know that you are not happy that they are being so stupid or ignorant over this.

Problem is the person making the decision doesnt have to pay the money out of their pocket when they get it wrong so they aret inclined to revisit the error

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  • 1 month later...

and?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Still waiting to hear back from the change in liability that the fleet manager sent through. I will update if/when i hear back.

 

As always, I am grateful for all of your help! Thank you.

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  • 3 years later...
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