Andy B v's hsbc About Ready to go.....(ish)

[lateralus]

it's about 10 days ago i first read those words - i know of at least two off the top of my headand i'm sure i've seen others with this wording and one of those has taken the offer but for personal reasons - needed a quick finish. the other, just sent a rejection letter, that was last week, but as for yours- i didn't want to just tell you what i thought - so i have pm'd a question about that - whether to just reject or to try to explain the reasoning behind claiming for the o/d interest - (which isn't difficult: the portion of overdraft interest which was incurred due to the applying of unlawful charges is also reclaimable - it's not rocket science) but what to do about the offer just reject or send some wording about the o/d interest? - as i started to say - i've pm'd 5 of the brightest sparks around and will get back to you with what i get as soon as.....

[andrewjb2]

Thanks,

 

This is getting exciting now!!!!!! lol

[lateralus]

ok, 2 out of 5 back to me so far and it is as i thought - IF, you used vampiress' spreadsheet to figure the overdraft interest - you will only have been claiming for the portion of o/d interest which was applicable to the unlawful charges and as such - the advice would be it is reclaimable just as the 8% is reclaimable, so, send the rejection letter and sit tight.

now, i'll try to clear up whether to tell them or just send the template letter tweaked to your case. i'll get back to you.

conversely, if you didn't use vampiress' s/s and/or claimed all the overdraft interest that had been debited - think you'd better take the offer. ok so far?

[andrewjb2]

i have used vampress's spreadsheets and 'think' I have done it correctly.lol

[lateralus]

that's 3 out of 5 now - saying the same thing - that those charges done properly are reclaimable. still toying with what to write back - a total rejection or accept it as partial and state you are confident in what you've asked for and the clock is ticking.....

if you read all the threads - you'll see another one tonight where i've had to explain that you can't just total up the o/d charges and reclaim them.

i'm confident you've done it correctly and i think were it my claim - i'd put a little something in there like, "you will be aware of the fact that overdraft interest which was caused solely by the application of the bank's unlawful charges is reclaimable and it is that portion of the overdraft interest which I am claiming in this action." or something like that. you seem a clever chappy - you get the drift. (always polite, but firm in your resolve - take that approach),

hang on another day if you want my final verdict - but i think we see where this is going.

[andrewjb2]

Im on the same page as you. Im gonna hold on until the final virdict but I think i see where im going with it now.

 

Thanks again

[lateralus]

back later today - don't stress - although i don't think you are the stressing sort!

[GaryH]

that's 3 out of 5 now - saying the same thing - that those charges done properly are reclaimable. still toying with what to write back - a total rejection or accept it as partial and state you are confident in what you've asked for and the clock is ticking.....

if you read all the threads - you'll see another one tonight where i've had to explain that you can't just total up the o/d charges and reclaim them.

i'm confident you've done it correctly and i think were it my claim - i'd put a little something in there like, "you will be aware of the fact that overdraft interest which was caused solely by the application of the bank's unlawful charges is reclaimable and it is that portion of the overdraft interest which I am claiming in this action." or something like that. you seem a clever chappy - you get the drift. (always polite, but firm in your resolve - take that approach),

hang on another day if you want my final verdict - but i think we see where this is going.

 

Yep, thats spot on. As long as you have worked it out properly, write back along the same lines as Lat's has suggested, also making it clear that you are perfectly willing to pay interest on money's you borrow by way of overdraft - but absolutely not that which was levied on top of and solely as a result of unlawful charges. You consider that for HSBC to keep these gains would amount to unjust enrichment, and you are confident a court would also see it that way.

[andrewjb2]

I am going to double check my spreadsheets today at work and amend to remove the charges struck off by DG (prior to court action date - 6 years.)

 

Once I have composed the letter I post it on here and get it sent.

 

Thanks again everyone.

[lateralus]

well, that's it then - the definitive answer - thanks, you guys.

 

one more thing, andy, in my haste.

ring the court, tell them bank has made an offer, you are negotiating and are hoping for a quick resolution so could you please have an extension on the aq deadline - they may want it in writing, but they will do it - that's important, to keep that side going until you have the money - the extension in the way to go.

nearly there!

 

i'm having a rethink and wondering if you should press dg on your aq deadline. yes, i think put a line or two about how your aq is due imminently and if you haven't heard from them by Friday, you will be filing and it will then require another £100 to settle your claim.

 

hold off ringing the court until frid - and if they say yes, to the delay, ok , if they say no, then you will have to file and worm another 100 out of dg.

also, your letter won't get there before friday - could you do it and fax it and ring dg. i think it's a very close call, is your aq ready? i totally believe you'll be settled very soon but you can't hold off on the aq (they seem to get a break of one week or more by the courts but i wouldn't chance it,) pm a mod quickly if you want a firmer opinion. but i'm pretty sure - dg tend to act pretty quickly on the second offer - i think a weeks ext. would cover it. so ring the court friday before 4pm.

[andrewjb2]

should i state in the offer that I will accept the amount as partial settlement?

[andrewjb2]

Right them... faxed emailed and posted letter as below:

 

Rachel Tomlinson

DG Solicitors

12 Calthorpe Road

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 1QZ

 

BY FAX, EMAIL & RMRD

14th February 2007

 

HSBC Account: ****** ********

Claim Reference: ********

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated 09/02/07.

 

I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account. I have removed charges prior **/01/2006 in hope of a speedy resolution.

The revised total value of my claim is detailed below:

PENALTIES & INTEREST ON PENALTIES CLAIMED

£3,***.**

TOTAL INTEREST CLAIMED AT 8%

£7**.**

COURT FEE

£120.00

TOTAL CLAIM

£4,4**.**

 

A detailed breakdown is enclosed.

 

You will be aware of the fact that overdraft interest which was caused solely by the application of the bank's unlawful charges is reclaimable and it is that portion of the overdraft interest which I am claiming in this action. I am perfectly willing to pay interest on money's borrowed by way of overdraft - but absolutely not that which was levied on top of and solely as a result of unlawful charges.

I hope the above paragraph clarified my position in response to your question: ‘We are at a loss to understand why you have sought to recover, what appears to be, overdraft interest from our client and, in addition, 8% interest per annum upon the interest.’

My allocation questionnaire is due imminently, If I haven’t received a response from yourselves by Friday I will be filing and require another £100 to settle my claim. I can be contacted on mobile: ***********, email: *@*.com, or postal address as detailed above.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

***** ************

[livelylad]

A good letter well done.

[lateralus]

and just so you know andy, that's all 5 of the bright sparks i asked back now with same response.

good letter! are you going to ring the court friday and ask for ext. or go ahead and file and then worm the extra 100 out of them?

[andrewjb2]

its not that great i have put that i have removed charges prior to jan 06 instead of jan 01!!

 

Do you think i should send an amendment tomorrow?

[lateralus]

still got it on the computer - just amend and send (by e-mail or fax perhaps?) with a quick, note of explanation. no harm done - but fix it.

 

[email protected]

Fax 0121 455 2150

[andrewjb2]

Just amended and faxed to Rachel. I wont be trying to write letters at work again!!! 100% attention needed I think. Cant wait for tomorrow night, going to complete the aq, hopefully I wont need to send it but best get it ready.

 

One other thing.... as I have revised my claim and took off the 1 charge prior to jan 2001, do i need to send new copies of my claim to the court and let them know that the amounts have been adjusted?

[lateralus]

i've seen your post and i'm not sure, so i'm bumping it.

HELP, PLEASE!

[GaryH]

No, I would'nt worry. This is merely the process of negotiating a settlement - no need to inform the court.

[andrewjb2]

Just had a letter from DG. An interesting read looks like they are not shifting. Wondering what your views are.......

 

'Thank you for your letter.

We note your comments in relation to the debit interest applied to your account whilst it was in state of overdraft.

 

We have reviewed the historic statements with out client and do not concur with your comment that the overdraft charges incurred were the sole cause of the overdraft interest being applied to your account. From our review of the statements, it can be seen that the account was conducted in a manner that, even without the charges applied, debit interest would be incurred by you. Debit interest was applied to your account by our client when the account was heavily overdrawn, not by sole virtue of the alleged unlawful charges being applied to your account.

You have also failed to address the point on our previous letter and have not confirmed to us the legal basis, with supporting case law, of your claim in respect of debit interest. For the avoidance of doubt, your claim in respect of debit interest is denied by our client.

 

The letter goes on to say that the previous off is still on the table. I am beginning to think that I have filled the spread sheets in wrong, or is this a new approach?

[lateralus]

i'd pm phoenix, crusher, bong and a couple of others to get around and take a look if i were you. gary h, lively lad and hagenuk are also good for getting an opinion. any of the mods and site helpers - you need some feedback - send a pm with a link to your thread and ask for their advice.

[andrewjb2]

I have pm'd them as suggested and wait replies with bated breath.

 

Thanks again.

 

Andy

[Guest bong]

Hi Andy, as long as you are sure that the interest you are reclaiming was caused by the charges then you will be ok and they are just trying it on. You can tell them that had the charges not been applied then the overdraft would not have been so high and the overdraft interest would have been proportionately lower (it doesn't require any case law in support). I haven't checked back through your thread - did you use a spreadsheet to apportion the interest charges in relation to the penalty charges in this way?

[andrewjb2]

im as sure as i can be. I used vampress's spreadsheets and put the balance in and amount of interest.

 

2 thoughts...

 

firstly.

 

I can kinda see there point, there arguing that i would still have gone over drawn without the charges so the interest is fair and reasonable.

 

secondly

 

Where are they going with this line. From what I can gather they will never let this go to court, so why take the line they have. If they always settle why do they protest so hard.

[lateralus]

i think to scare you off. personal opinion here - make no mistake - they know by the letters who is getting their info on this site - it may not make a big difference to the coffers if they can get you to take a bit less - but they KNOW that it has a knock on effect (oooooh, did you see that - that's scary i don't think i'll bother after all, ooooh , i better take the first offer they come back with no matter what - i couldn't be doing with all that), i'm not trying to put any pressure on - but i think at least in part - it's to scare off every person reading your thread - look at your thread today - 637 views to date. how many of those are going to back off if they see dg being stubborn - conversely - how many will see it through if they see you go on to stick it to them. you've got some power behind you here - think if you were going it alone - unless you thought you were some frustrated lawyer - you'd have caved by now, right? you had that first letter and i asked 5 people to take a look and give a thought - how many did - 5! (i got pm's back from all 5). i'm just trying to tell you, i think you can do this - and aceades too - hope you are watching!

use who you need to to get what you need to stick to it. me, i'm in charge of the prayer circle!