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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***


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Good morning, I'm new to this type of issue and using the internet for advise but its getting a bit serious now and I dont want to pay a charge if I genuinely am not at fault.

 

I found this forum after browsing the net and a case you successfully won last year against the same company and in the same car park. Details below.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?476097-Excel-BW-claimform-PCN-cavendish-retail-park-in-keighley-on-10-04-2014-**Discontinued-Costs**/page4

 

I have already filed a defence with the County Court Business Centre in Northampton and I have just received a letter from BW Legal stating they will persue the claim. Friday form N180 arrived.

 

These are the facts of the case:

 

Claimant Excel Parking Services Ltd

 

They are claiming 271.36

 

PCN charge £100

Interest £42.36

Other cost £54.00 contractual costs pursuant to PCN T and C.

Court fee £25.00

Legal Rep £50.00

 

This dates back to April 2012

 

It has always been stated that the defendant was not the driver at the time of the alleged incident.

This was made clear to them in May, 2012.

No other correspondants have been sent or made with Excel or any other third party.

 

I'm not sure what else to put in so I'll wait for further instructions

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Hi and Welcome to CAG

 

 

I have moved your thread to the appropriate forum..please continue to post here to your thread.

 

DQ N180 must filed and served by the date stated.....simple to complete.

 

Yes to Small Claims Track

No to mediation

State your local County Court

1 witness to the facts ...you

 

Run 3 copies...Court/ Claimants Solicitor/ and file.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?406099-LEGAL-N180-Directions-Questionnaire-(Small-Claims-Track)-**Correct-at-Sept-2016**

 

Andy

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right,

in your opening post there is reference to a date in april 2014 yet later you mention april 2012.

Now if the latter is correct and not the former thewn there is no keeper liability because the POFA wasnt enacted to create such a thing until oct that year.

 

What did you put in your defence? Knowing that will help us tailor our responses.

Also there are procedural things they have got wrong so that if argued will reduce any claim back to the £100 as the £54 costs arent allowable but they hope you dont know this or they get them by default/admission of debt /not telling the truth to the court.

 

Tell us about the event itself and what evidene you have to help you with your defence.

Do you still have the original paperwork?

Can you get copies of the signage there currently and then they can be compared with what thy claim were there at the time.

 

Now, Excel werent members of the IPC at that time.

The IPC changes its name in 2016 so again the signage they produce should have the old name on or it is just a forgery and perjurous behaviour.

Get what you can posted up here so we can help

Edited by DragonFly1967
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Anyone for a toothbrush? :lol:

 

Excel could be about to really land themselves in it here if the 2012 date is correct. Oh, I so hope it is :evil:

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Good morning,

 

The event took place in APRIL 2012.

I dont have any photos of the area but I do have all the paper work.

All the signage has now been changed to another car parking company.

It looks like the retailers have had enough of excel considering all the bad publicity generated in the area.

 

The original paperwork was sent late (If they had 14 days to serve notice) arrived after 20 days.

Its issued to the driver and the '' Full charge '' was £60 .

It only changed to £100 when they added court costs and now they have added court costs again !!!

 

The photo on the PCN shows the number plate but no clear picture of the driver and they have never produced any evidence.

Its so long ago now we have no or very little recollection of the incident.

I have a feeling they have sent it to small claims so its just inside the 6 year allowance.

 

Below was my defence and have I said too much ?

 

quote

 

The defendant responded to Excel Parking in May 2012 stating she was not driving the car, therefore she is not responsible for this PCN.

 

The requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act were not satisfied because the notice to keeper was not delivered to the keeper within the prescribed timescale. The registered keeper cannot therefore be held liable to the parking charge.

As the operator has neither named the driver(s) or provided any evidence who the driver(s) were the charge is not enforceable."

 

It is denied that any "parking charges or indemnity costs" (whatever they might be) as stated on the Particulars of claim are wed and any debt is denied in it's entirety. The date of the alleged incident is 09/04/1012 as per the particulars of claim which is nealy 6 years ago.

 

I am perpelexed as to why the Claimant waited until now to bring proceedings.

 

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA 2012) which came into force in October 2012 is the only legislation currently available allowing a private parking firm to hold a registered keeper liable.

 

From the limited information provided by the particulars of claim, it can be seen the date of the alleged incident is 09/04/2012 which predates the enactment of PoFA 2012. This being the case, the claimant cannot surely hold the registered keeper liable, only the driver, of which no evidence has been produced.

 

This distinguishes the case from Elliot vs Loake, in which there was irrefutable evidence of the drivers identity.

Further, Elliot v Loake was a criminal case, which has no bearing on a civil matter, as Elliot was prosecuted for S.172, which cannot apply here.

 

PATAS and POPLA Lead Adjudicator and barrister, Henry Michael Greenslade, clarified that with regards to keeper liability,

"There is no reasonable presumption in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver and operators should never suggest anything of the sort" (POPLA report 2015).

 

The Claimant solicitors are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one, with no due diligence, no scrutiny of details nor even checking for a true cause of action.

 

HMCS have identified over 1000 similar poorly produced claims and the solicitor's conduct in many of these cases is believed to be currently the subject of an active investigation by the SRA.

 

I believe the term for such conduct is 'robo-claims' which is against the public interest, demonstrates a disregard for the dignity of the court and is unfair on represented consumers.

 

I have reason to believe that this claim will proceed without any facts or evidence supplied until the last possible minute, to my significant detriment as an unrepresented Defendant.

 

I suggest that parking companies using the small claims track as a form of aggressive, automated debt collection is not something the courts should be seen to support.

 

It is submitted that (apart from properly incurred court fees) any added legal fees/costs are simply numbers made up out of thin air, and are an attempt at double recovery by the Claimant, which would not be recoverable in the small claims court.

 

It is denied that there was any 'relevant obligation' or 'relevant contract' relating to any single parking event.

 

The defendant denies the claim in its entirety voiding any liability to the claimant for all amounts claimed due to the aforementioned reasons.

It is submitted that the conduct of the Claimant is wholly unreasonable and vexatious.

 

As such, I am keeping a note of my wasted time/costs in dealing with this matter.

I request the court strike out this claim for the reasons stated above

I confirm that the contents of this statement are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

 

unquote

Edited by dx100uk
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You've muddled it up slightly, but not enough to matter I think.

 

Regarding POFA, all you should really have said is that the incident predates the enactment of POFA in October 2012, and therefore the keeper cannot be liable. But you've covered that later so it's no big deal.

 

Nicely done on Elliot v Loake! Gladrags & BWL love that one, though I've no idea why, they've been spanked so many times on that matter. They're clearly just too stupid for it to sink in.

 

If this does end up in court, I'd go for full costs including the LiP rate of 5 hours @£19 per hour, and (as per VCS v Phillip) a counterclaim for their breach of the DPA. Any expenses incurred on the day, including travel & parking (the Judge will like the irony), any lost wages and anything else that you've spent money on to defend this case.

 

The beers will be on you at the end of it. Excel don't stand a chance. :thumb:

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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I just want to clear one point up.

 

The PCN was issued to the registered owner but she was not driving and she will not be attending court. When filling out the N180 should I state me as the expert witness or say no to that and state just 1 witness to the facts ?

 

many thanks

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She will have to attend as the claim was issued in her name...she is the legal owner...state 2 witness (Defendant and yourself)

 

You are not an expert witness...just a witness :-)

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WHOAH, if it is not you being sued then you cant do anything on your own. If she cant attend then she will have to pay for a solicitor to attend and you can go as a witness.

 

Now to point out various things, the paperwork wasnt sent out late as there was no POFA at the time to limit when they send things,

however as there was no keeper laibility then anything they sent was meaningless and can only be damaging to their claim so if you still have it or a copy of it from them as part of a CPR 31.14 request for documents then post it up here so we can advise but generally your missus has a case for suing them under the DPA and for harassment as well ( beware the bar is quite high for the latter).

 

As for their added costs, as you say they are fiction as they ahve no contract with the defendant so cnat add any extras on whether it was in the original contract or not.

 

This is where Dunlop comes into pay as the costs are just an unlawful penalty

Edited by Andyorch
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on the 28th April we received the following:

 

The original paperwork from Excel Parking was sent to the defendant who was the owner of the vehicle. (as stated was not driving)

 

Under the main address box in blue it states '' liability for this parking charge notice (pcn) lies with the driver of the vehicle.

 

 

On the 17th May - Excel asked for the the drivers details. It also states that if we are not prepared to identify the driver then they will request settlement from the vehicle owner as registered with the DVLA.

 

30th May - They state that we have not identified the driver they would like to bring our attention CPR31.18 and the Norwich Parmacal Procedure. Excel parking services Ltd V Alphabet (GB) Ltd in Leeds District Registry of the high court.

 

In mid June another PCN arrived now the charge is £100 which includes court fees £30 and Solicitors costs £50.

 

 

After that they start with solicotors letters; Roxburghe then Graham White then Rossendale and finally BW Legal.

 

Await further instructions.

 

Many thanks

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'' liability for this parking charge notice (pcn) lies with the driver of the vehicle."

 

Sorry but that does not legally wash...you cant serve a court claim on an unnamed person...and they cant serve it on the legal owner as they were not driving

We could do with some help from you.

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Also they are welcome to try and get a Norwich Parmacal Order if they wish but as your other half isnt a body corporate she isnt obliged to answer any part of it and in any case it it cant be used against bodies that are involved in the action as you cannot make people self-incriminate.

 

If they want to waste thousands of their clients money on this stupidity then let them, it will fall at the first hurdle and the current claim will also get chucked out as they will have failed to show a cause for action against the defendant by their own admission.

 

Now, when you have to send in a defence this should be made very clear from the onset,

ie they need a NPO because they are on a fishing expedition and thus the claim is vex.

 

Another thing is that the original NPO was granted because of wrongdoing by a defendant and the claimant needed to use info held by a third party to prove this (HMRC) these abndits have no evidence of wrongdoing by anyone so it is inappropriate law.

 

Your original defence should have considered this or alternately been so lacking in detail that it would be covered by the basic " no contract ever entered into by defendant with claimant" so you could then wtite a book on the detail later when they had finished messing up their side of things

Edited by honeybee13
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Many thanks for all the information you have given so far its very much appreceiated.

 

I have sent off form N180 to all parties.

 

I'll post any correspondence I receive should I be doing anything else at the moment ?

 

regards

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No...await the Notice of Allocation with the courts directions (N157)

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 1 month later...

Just back from Hols and found a letter from the local court stating the following:

 

The claimant has until 14th April 4pm to file and serve amended particulars of claim addressing matters required by CPR1998 PD16.7 and the legal basis of the claim shall be struck out.

 

They have filed them arrived 13th and I received a copy post dated 13th April.

 

I have been given 14 days from service to serve on the claimant an amended defence. i.e. 27th April.

 

Its a bit short notice considering I gave them dates when not available.

 

BW Legal have sent 15 pages or so 5 pages setting out their claim the rest copies of the lease to the car park photo copies of the parking notice, signage and parking notice.

 

If you want me to type all the details out i can but they have made some mistakes on the particulars of claim on te first page which I will give you now.

 

1. the PCN for parking contravention which occured on the 28th October 2016 (The contrevention date) - Wrong date

 

2. The claimant does not intend to reply on the registered keeper liability detailed under the protection of freedoms act 2012

 

4. At all material times, the defendant was the registered keeper and / or the driver of the ........... bearing vehicle registration mark ....... - They have the wrong vehicle and VRM.

 

5. The claimant submits that the defendant was the driver of the vehicle on the contravention date. - Still no evidence.

 

I need to check if its been filed electronically but at the moment all I have is a hand copy.

 

regards

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Amended particulars are always manual...not electronically.

 

So you need to submit your amended defence in response....you will have fum here.

 

 

Andy

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please stop typing important letters etc out

 

scan them to pdf and UPLOAD them here.

 

if its a multipage document, scan to ONE multipage PDF.

 

read UPLOAD

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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they cant offer any evidence of who was driving and as they say they dont rely on the POFA they are stuck and so rely on you making their case for them.

 

so rebutting their points is fairly straightforward and esp point 4 as it still misses the point of the POFA so you need to point out why they have failed on this and that there is NO keeper liability and you put it to them to provide STRICT PROOF as to who was driving at the time.

 

they are hoping that you and the judge miss these points or the judge decides that as they have written and/or they get away with it.

You need to dig out other cases where the judge has been persuaded that the POFA needs every bit right or they get nothing.

 

There is a recent on on the parkingpranksters blog so copy it for your detailed defence and read up on similar cases reported on his blog and copy those as well.

the case number etc is important, probably more so than the exact detail but I would lay it on with a trowel.

For the momet just saying they are wrong as per parking co v bloggs 2018 will suffice, you produce the court report later as said

Edited by honeybee13
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Ok I'll put something together and take a look at parkingpranksters blog.

As you have pointed out its not been filed electronically.

Do you need to see all the paperwork from BW Legal ? (I dont have a scanner)

they have made so many mistakes If I was a judge I would just through it out I cant see they have a case.

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I'm putting a defence together now but Im having problems. How can I defend this claim if the dates, vehicle and registration are all wrong ?

Surely I just say non of these details are correct and there is no case to answer. What am I defending ?

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read upload

you don't need a scanner

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

have you checked to see what the amended POC's are?

have they actually filed them with the court.

If they havent the whole thing is over and done with.

ASK the court before you do anything else.

 

Do this my tomorrow and then we can help you once we know what these bandits are now saying.

 

again, you dont need to write a book at this juncture, just somehting that points out the paucity of their claim.

we have standard phrases we use so get the gen on whether they have complaied with the order and we can put some words together.

 

The keeper may well not be going to court after all but work on the theory that excel are very stupid and dont know when to stop.

Even gladdys were glad to see the back of them when they took their business to BWL

Edited by dx100uk
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I checked on Friday they have filed them with the court but I didnt ask about the details I am presuming its the same as mine.

 

The only thing that relates to the case is a picture of the correct vehicle / number plate.

 

Still no evidence in the picture of the driver

the last photocopy in the pack is a letter sent to another party relating to another case. Its a complete shambles.

 

My guess is they only had 7 days so they through something together very quickly and got all the docs / details mixed up.

 

How can I reply ?

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