Claimform - employer/employee theft

[Gerald Gardner]

This was for theft of goods totalling £70 claim for £267, no police involvement

 

Brief outline,

back in March this year the usual scare tactic letters started to arrive gradually getting more and more threatening,

then at the beginning of July they played their ace card,

' if you don't pay within the next 10 days etc etc we will take court action '

Yeah right, file it with the rest of the pile.

 

Lo and behold what drops on the doormat Saturday morning, a county court claim.

 

I shall be in possession of the paper work tomorrow

but from the screen shot i have been sent it looks genuine,

surely they would not stoop so low as to sending out fake ones.

 

The advice on here has always been ignore,

ignore and ignore again

which is what i pass on to people,

if a genuine cc claim what is the response now please?

 

I have tried to upload the screen shot but i just keep this error

[dx100uk]

WHO has issued the claimform?

 

 

if you are trying to post things here

click upload

 

 

dx

[Gerald Gardner]

It was issued on behalf of a well known retailer by a solicitor,

claim2.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Is there a second page with full particulars of claim?

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

wow that informative.........

[Gerald Gardner]

claim3.pdf

Is there a second page with full particulars of claim?

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

and the claimant is....................................

[Gerald Gardner]

and the claimant is....................................

 

At present im not going to name them, but it is a well known high street retailer.

 

Having told them the recommended advise is to ignore nothing will happen they won't issue a ccj, they haven't in years, i now need to know if that claim is genuine and i think it is, what is the response going to be? thanks

[dx100uk]

secret squirrel is too late now

is this a claimform from an employer re employee theft?

[Gerald Gardner]

secret squirrel is too late now

is this a claimform from an employer re employee theft?

 

Not necessarily so, the retailer is not relevant right now, yes it was but the goods in question was well short of £70 and the figure of £197 for case costs must of been dreamt up by Tattoo from fantasy island.

[dx100uk]

oh well we cant help if you employ secret squirrel mode

if the employer has issued the claim the take it seriously

[Gerald Gardner]

Not sure why at this stage giving you the name of the retailer makes any difference,

I've given you all the information about the claim,

how it that being secretive?

[Old Cogger]

need help then respond to request made,

[ericsbrother]

right, from now on you need to use the correct terminology as attention to detail is most important.

 

It isnt a CCJ, you get one of those after a claim has been heard and you have lost.

Even then it is not posted anywhere if you settle in the time ordered by the court, often within 14 days after the hearing.

 

What you have is a N1 claim form.

As currently the attachments you have posted are not visible because certain details have not been redacted

 

your responses to requests regarding the incident make it impossible to offer any advice at all other than to acknowledge the service of the claim in time.

 

IF this an employee theft issue then yes, they can sue you for their losses but they must be able to show that these are genuinely a result of your actions alone so for example £ 50 for managers salary whilst investigating the matter are not true costs because they pay their managers to be there anyway.

 

If the matter is a result of something you did as a customer then none of the costs will be recoverable, especially if they got their stuff back in a saleable condition.

 

I hope that your username refers to the long deceased author and not yourself

[Gerald Gardner]

Yes thank you i understand that re: money claim.

 

Im working on this on behalf of someone else and posted what they sent me,

i wasn't going to name the retailer without their permission,

 

the particulars of the claim was clear for all to see,

i only redacted the name of the person involved and the retailer,

i don't consider that being secret as claimed by dx100uk.

 

I shall have in hand the paperwork later today to see if it is a genuine cc claim and take it from there.

 

No I've not risen from the dead

 

Thanks for the reply

[AndyOrch]

Its genuine...it has the Northampton seal and claim number.

 

You have 33 days in total if you wish to defend the claim...19 days to acknowledge service from and including the date on the claim form and then a further 14 days to submit a defence (33 days) this can be done on line once registered to use the MCOL on line service......password should be on the claim form once you have your username.

 

Andy

[Gerald Gardner]

It was indeed genuine Andy,

I have acknowledged service and will file defence in due course,

 

 

i have full support of defendant to take this all the way and can name the retailer when it's case closed,

 

 

ball is firmly back in their court lets see what they do,

 

 

thanks for your reply

[Sidewinder]

The reason that the employer and solicitor involved might be relevant is that some have a previous history which might help to indicate whether a particular defence is likely to be successful

 

The advice on here to 'ignore, ignore and ignore again' applies to RLP and their demanding letters only, The advice is also to NOT ignore a Letter Before Claim or correspondence from genuine solicitors that might indicate that a Claim is being seriously considered

 

As previously stated and in general terms a claim from an employer for employee theft can be very different from a potential claim against a shoplifter. Whilst it is true that the Claimant would have to itemise their damages and demonstrate that these were outside of 'normal' costs of dealing with theft, it is often easier for an employer to show that they incurred additional cost (installation of covert equipment, overtime spent in viewing extensive CCTV, bringing in unbudgeted additional security etc). Employee theft can and does sometimes result in successful claims running into thousands of pounds

 

With shoplifting - in most cases - a court claim is more unlikely as a decent defence would successfully argue that the retailer has incurred no damages - security were on duty and already being paid for, and they are actually employed to detect and apprehend shoplifters

 

Just be mindful that without knowing more details of the incident(s), what measures were used to detect the crime and which solicitor/claimant has lodged the claim it is more difficult to say what merits it has. It is certainly not as straightforward as just blundering through as a Judge, faced with somebody guilty of theft from employer will most likely just rubber stamp the Judgment unless you give him a very good reason, based on established legal principles and case-law, not to. Adhere to all deadlines, starting with the work on the defence. You are unlikely to see their hand at an early stage of the process which will make it hard to frame a plausible defence.

[AndyOrch]

There is no need to name names at this stage and I fully agree once this has been dealt with then is the correct time.

 

Andy

[Gerald Gardner]

The reason that the employer and solicitor involved might be relevant is that some have a previous history which might help to indicate whether a particular defence is likely to be successful

 

The advice on here to 'ignore, ignore and ignore again' applies to RLP and their demanding letters only, The advice is also to NOT ignore a Letter Before Claim or correspondence from genuine solicitors that might indicate that a Claim is being seriously considered

 

As previously stated and in general terms a claim from an employer for employee theft can be very different from a potential claim against a shoplifter. Whilst it is true that the Claimant would have to itemise their damages and demonstrate that these were outside of 'normal' costs of dealing with theft, it is often easier for an employer to show that they incurred additional cost (installation of covert equipment, overtime spent in viewing extensive CCTV, bringing in unbudgeted additional security etc). Employee theft can and does sometimes result in successful claims running into thousands of pounds

 

With shoplifting - in most cases - a court claim is more unlikely as a decent defence would successfully argue that the retailer has incurred no damages - security were on duty and already being paid for, and they are actually employed to detect and apprehend shoplifters

 

Just be mindful that without knowing more details of the incident(s), what measures were used to detect the crime and which solicitor/claimant has lodged the claim it is more difficult to say what merits it has. It is certainly not as straightforward as just blundering through as a Judge, faced with somebody guilty of theft from employer will most likely just rubber stamp the Judgment unless you give him a very good reason, based on established legal principles and case-law, not to. Adhere to all deadlines, starting with the work on the defence. You are unlikely to see their hand at an early stage of the process which will make it hard to frame a plausible defence.

 

Thanks for the info, in this particular case there was no covert operation etc etc.

 

I won't go into full detail ( sorry dx100uk ) but briefly it involved staff discounts,

everyone who works in the store was doing it ( no excuse i know )

but they wanted to make an example of someone when they found out,

 

 

this someone was the most vulnerable,

they have learning difficulties hence the reason it peed me off so much,

the amount accrued was in the region of £20 ish,

they claim £70 and try to mug them off for another £197,

 

 

now if they had just asked for £70 i would of advised ay.

take your medicine draw a line underneath,

move on you have better things to do in your life,

 

 

you see why i am going all out to make sure they don't succeed with this claim.

[dx100uk]

there's another thread here on the discount dodge GG

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?480033-theft-from-employer-not-removing-staff-discount-upon-item-return

Edited September 1, 2017 by Andyorch
Thread added

[Gerald Gardner]

Update

 

Received N149A , filled in DQ will send to both court and claimant within time frame, waiting for their DQ, if they bother to file it.

[ericsbrother]

we still dont know what the company did to mitigate their loss or to end up with costs of baove the value of the goods. Was the person asked to repay the discount, were they dismissed etc. The store actions before they decided to recover via the courts make a big difference so was the person asked to repay and then didnt becuase if they were never asked they cnat be sued for not paying it. What about previous correspondence? was there a proper lba for example? If not then bause of civil procedure and you can get the matter thrown out regardles of the claims actual merits