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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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'Free' Phone from 3G - Spam Voice Calls


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I've just spent an interesting 15 minutes speaking to an Indian call centre that was trying to give me a free phone if I signed up to the UKs "3G" network. After the puff - much of it unintelligible - I asked which network the phone would be connected to.... "3G" I said that was a technology - what was the network....? I was eventually transferred to a supervisort who first told me that he was "3G", and when I pressed him further he corrected himself and said he was calling from "3UK", which - he wanted me to know, had a call centre in India. I explained I did know this, but it was surprising he didn't know me as I was already a 3UK customer, on a contract. As the fractured conversation developed, it turned out they weren't 3UK, simply a sales boilerhouse trying to get customers to sign up for a free phone.

 

Additionally, the call came through on a line that has TPS opt-out for sales calls, and when I queried why I was called, he told me they had a 'computer system' that made the calls, so they weren't responsible - and their computer didn't know or take notice of marketing blocked numbers! On asking him for his contact details, I was told he didn't know his own phone number, before terminating the call (the call comes in as 'International').

 

I'll be raising this with 3UK, as they'll be able to whittle down who in India can sell their contracts, but interestingly the call centre contacted my number 7 time in a DAY until they connected with someone. If YOU get a similar call ofering to sign you up to the "3G" network - try and find out who they are.

 

I'll be banging on 3UK's Glasgow HQ door first thing tomorrow for some answers!

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They were all out having a curry? :) I contacted their Data Compliance Officer by email asking for disclosure of the name or names of the firms they use as sales agents in India to sell to the UK. If they provide this, I'll send the info to the ICO as a formal complaint. If 3 decline, I'll take this as their tacit acceptance of these methods and complain with them as the 'notifiable party' in knowing of the problem and condonig it. More when I hear back.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Three have responded, saying that they 'weeded out' errant call centres and this practice was at an end - then were unimpressed to discover that the sales calls complained of were within the last month, some 4 months after the 'cull'. 3UK provided the following information;

 

Minimum requirements for outbound or inbound telephone sales activities.

D10_image.asp?sid=386701701&did=2006112835914&em=2285 In July 2005 we issued a compliance bulletin advising of problems arising from unsolicited marketing calls being made by some 3Sellers.

Unfortunately, 3 continues to receive complaints from customers and members of the public about unsolicited marketing calls being made by 3Sellers. We also understand that some 3Sellers are passing themselves off as being from ‘3’ and/or refuse to identify themselves.

This is a matter that 3 takes very seriously and we cannot permit the above behaviour to continue. 3 is committed to the highest business and compliance standards and we expect all 3Sellers to comply with their legal obligations including under the UK Data Protection Act 1998, the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003, the Communications Act 2003, the Distance Selling Regulations 2000 and all other applicable laws, when promoting and selling 3’s services. A breach of the law by a 3Seller is a breach of your agreement with 3 and we will take appropriate action, including the suspension of sales and the termination of agreements, where breaches are found.

We have produced a minimum requirements document for all 3Sellers conducting outbound or inbound telephone sales activities (see below). We expect for these requirements to be followed and non-compliance is likely to be considered a breach of relevant data protection laws. We have consulted with the Information Commissioner’s office (ICO) on the ‘minimum requirements’ and which they support. The ICO are stepping up enforcement activity in this area, and recently issued preliminary enforcement notices against a number of organisations (including mobile retailers) for making unsolicited marketing calls in breach of the PECRS.

Click here to download the requirements document from 3Seller Central now.

 

You should also be aware that all 3Sellers must obtain the prior written agreement of 3 to the use of call centres outside of the UK. Therefore all 3Sellers must immediately notify 3 of any marketing calls and of any processing of applications being made by them from or to countries outside of the UK and provide full details of these activities by completing the form attached.

 

They have also indicated they might disclose the details of those firms abroad they accept connections from - if I receive this information, I'll advise later in this thread. In the meantime, if you get call like this, either supposedly from '3' or '3G' - do let me know!

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Im on O2 and used to get these a lot one cheeky git tried chatting me up to keep me on the line:confused: all I do now is ask how the hell they got my number as its unlisted they usually hang up instantly. The way I see it too you usually know its a sales call instantly so I tell them if they are trying to sell or get me to sign up to anything then just bog off now! Wonder why ive not had any calls in agges:D

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My ex had this problem. Someone from '3' called her and tried selling her an upgrade so she took it and they told her they would let her cancel the contract and keep the new phone so she thought she would be able to sell the new phone online, they sent her all kinds of bills so i called them and they also said they were '3G' and again i said no your not so what is your real name, i did get it and also their address but then when i called 3 i got through to india and they got really confused. She got out of it but had to pay some line rental in the end.... thing is that the phone she had wasn't even in her name and all the security info she gave was false ie it was all in her mums name and she gave her details and they said "oh thank you we have now identified you" lol they obviously just wanted her details.

 

I can't believe they are allowed to do that though!

George Loveless - “We raise the watchword, liberty. We will, we will, we will be free!"

 

My advice is only my opinion, I am not a legal expert.

 

IF YOU LIKE THE ADVICE I'M GIVING AND ARE HAPPY WITH IT, CLICK THE SCALES ON THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THIS POST AND TELL ME.

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When they called, did they say they were O2... or was it just a general sales call saying they thought it time you upgraded your phone?

 

Nope always summit to do with 3 we also get these leeches at the door and just close it in their faces!

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My ex had this problem.

 

According to 3, this 'problem' resolved itself early this year with the last of the 'cull' of errant dealers supposedly being removed. My complaint, of this happening within the last month caused some annoyance, but they've not provided a list of firms in the sub-continent still authorised to sell for 3 (or even the number of firms, if the trading names are 'sensitive').

 

Due to the lack of candour from 3, I'm drafting a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner, as on the face of things being abroad makes them immune to TPS rules, but the connection with 3UK (to my mind) re-establishes it with a vengeance.

 

I'll keep the thread posted!

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Thats great. I can't see how they can get away with it. Im on PAYGO and i think i had one of these not so long ago but i just put the phone down, really annoying that they keep on and on at people.

George Loveless - “We raise the watchword, liberty. We will, we will, we will be free!"

 

My advice is only my opinion, I am not a legal expert.

 

IF YOU LIKE THE ADVICE I'M GIVING AND ARE HAPPY WITH IT, CLICK THE SCALES ON THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THIS POST AND TELL ME.

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This company 3 are a weird lot .I've had a contract with them for the last 3yrs. when i upgraded in August this year iwas given an 18month contract which am regretting. I was late to pay their bill by 1 week an indian calls me n tells me as i didn't have the money as it was not payday yet i just give them my credit card details even though i told them it had no money, the guy said it doesn't matter i just give out the details. I smelled a fish and told him off after which he threatened to put a default against my name. Iwas fuming iput down the phone and the next day they disconnected my line including calling the customer services which is free from your handset. I lost a job as they had also disconnected my incoming calls. Itried calling customer services but they kept hanging up on me untill i told them iwanted to cancel the contract on this they stayed on the phone and rudely asked me to pay the full line rental and they gave me figure of about £600. I asked how they calculated this and they said its £1.50 a day. so until2008 feb, if i calculate the amount it doesn't come to £600 unless he was doing it in Rupees. Thing is is there any thing ican do or can the OFCOM help in anyway?

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Firstly, OFCOM doesn't represent consumers so it'll comse as no surprise that they're a waste of space. From what you explain, you took out an 18month contract 4 months ago, and you had 14 months of the contract to run. You couldn't pay the bill, and when they called you for an altrernative payment method you told them you couldn't afford it. You then asked them or told them to remove service and your line was disconnected. THey now want you to pay the balance of the contract.

 

Well, so far its you at fault for not sticking to your agreement. You can''t simply say "I can't afford it" and stop paying. They supplied you with a discounted (or free) phone, based on your promise of stating with them for 18 months.

 

I can't comment on how much it is 'a day' as they don't bill daily, it'll be whatever your monthly tariff was, for the remainder of ther months left to go. It is much better value to pay, as they'll reinstate your mobile and you can start usiing your inclusive call allowance. However they have probably noted you are in default and passing the matter to credit recovery agents to get their money back. The best thing is to offer 3 something to get you back on track, and before your credit records get wrecked.

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  • 6 years later...

The best 2 replies I ever heard to these scenarios were:

1) a firm "guaranteeing to beat your current tariff", to which the respondent replied "how much you going to pay me then?"

He was the editor of What Mobile?, and noted he was on a a "Press tariff, unlimited, no fees" : so if they were to better it, how much would they give him per month?

 

2) the firm "calling from Orange" who thought they had a gull up until they asked him for his postcode : which he gave for his office : the Chief Engineer for Orange (at Patchway).

 

Moral : for us mere mortals who can't catch them out by already being on unbeatable tariffs : they may say they are calling from the network, but usually aren't.

They may (if pushed) admit they are calling "on behalf of the network", but are actually calling on behalf if their commission payments.

 

if they call with an offer, listen to what they say is available, and then, if an existing customer, ask the network direct for the same or better. They'll already have your details, so caution in giving them any card / bank details.

If you aren't an existing customer, and would give you bank / card details to anyone who calls you up : let me know your number, as I can offer you a terrific upgrade

Edited by BazzaS
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