I'm a landlord who's been shafted. Help

[crocodiles]

Irented out my flat for just under 3 years.I used a letting agency called 'Yes Mortgage & let'.

They failed miserably to manage my tennant and when I finally gained access, the property had been trashed. I have had to replace every item of furniture, ceilings,walls, floors, plumbing, electrics doors. Nothing was left undamaged. Even light switches, windows, fireplace. Totally trashed.

I met my lawyer who said that I had a good case. I contacted letting agent only to find that they had stopped trading. They went out of business on a Friday and began trading under a new name on the following Monday.

I contacted the new owner and he visited the flat, he offered to buy it for a pittance and was shown the door. I have been rebuilding for 3 years now at great cost, both financial and personal.

I have 2 mortgages, 2 council tax bills, have learned several new trades-can't afford to employ tradesmen, have been harrased by tennants creditors, have paid for tools, materials & replacement furniture.

Stress of time and financial burdens has put my marriage under enormous strain.

I have a list of bank charges that will keep me on this site for a few years thanks to the hole it put me in.

I'd better stop now before this turns into a country & western song (my dog didn't die!).

Anyway I didn't start out as a slum landlord, it just ended that way.

The psychobitch tennant actually got rehoused because she got social services to free her from her self imposed squalour.

I met her once and very loudly and publicly offered to return the fecies that she left on my walls and in the g-strings she left behind but for some reason she had to leave.

Oh well. Do I sound bitter?

Actually, no I'm not. All I want is for her and her brood of fatherless spawn to suffer for eternity, and for me to sit by and watch their slow descent into destitution.

Oh, and I'd love to get some form of recompence from the so called property management company that re-cast the term incompitence in an altogether grander, apocolyptic context.

Anyway, I'll get off this manic rant but if anyone can pass on their experience or advice, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

[dori2o]

Sorry but have no advise towards the former tennant, but as she's under Social Services, they will probably prevent any action against her.

 

What I will say is, don't forget to claim all expenses for the repairs to the flat on your tax returns, also, why are you paying council tax on the property, if the property is empty it should be exempt as i understand it.

[blacksheep1979]

If the damage was so obviously done on purpose I'd contact the police regarding criminal damage. Also regardless of wether you will see the money or not take the ex tennant to the small claims court and she will have a ccj hanging over her head for however long it takes to pay off + 6 years. Also if she misses a payment you can send the baliffs in.

[crocodiles]

Thanks blacksheep, I'm not normaly the eye for an eye type but in this case I really would like my pound of flesh

[blacksheep1979]

Well also irrelevant of the eye for an eye you should hopefully get your money back - all be it in probably many years time and hopefully it will stop her from doing it to others.

[Joa]

crocodiles; although this forum is full of very helpful, often experienced and smart people, your situation is quite complex and you should seek proper legl advice. This is because, IMHO, you have a claim against the agents, whom you probably paid for looking after your property. They are out of business however and that's where it gets complicated. I know that there is a way to pursue matters in such circumstances but as I a writing from home and my resources are at work, I am not going to be a fool and advice you from top of my head. I could get back to you on Monday if you PM me to remind me.

[cheddar]

I would also suggest some legal advice you should have gone to the police as soon as it had been noticed as this is criminal damage and taken tenant to small claims. I also see you mentioned you are paying Council Tax, shouldn't an empty property be exempt?

[Joa]

croc, I have sent you PM with some info.

[Pen]

Hi sorry to hear your problems but your comments towards her children lost the sympathy vote with me in fact i stoped reading your post half way. For Social Services to be involved the situation for her kids must be really bad, Social Services don't involved themself for badly behaved kids the police do that, social workers are so overworked that they only take on immediate crises intervention work ,in other words child protection concerns. OK the mother is probably a bitch. Just think if that is the state she left your house in what conditions where the children living in. Instead of looking for ways of getting your rent maybe you should have been making a referral to the social services yourself, as you say it is your property so in 3 years you must have visited the house at some point maybe the kids wouldn't have suffered so much if you had intervened sooner. Just thank yourself lucky one of them wasn't found died whats money compered to the life those kids are living I wouldn't want their life would you.

Pen

[crocodiles]

Hi Pen,

 

I can understand your statements totally.

But.......

My opening post was a little naughty but meant to be a bit laconic, i.e. humorous. I know that irony & sarcasm don't translate too well in print, so let me assure you that I would never wish actual harm on anyone, let alone children.

My wife worked for the Reporter to the Childrens panel in Scotland for 10 years, so I have a great deal of knowledge regarding child poverty and much worse.

Also, I was chairman of a local charity for 5 years that was aimed at giving local underpriviliged kids an alternative to drugs, booze & crime by means of providing music tuition & concert facilities.

For those 5 years my wife became a charity widow as it consumed my life.

 

Regarding the mother, I know of her family (I didn't when I first met her) and the girl probably hasn't had a chance in life herself. Such is the way with life, history repeats itself.

As for her children, they were too young to be a matter for the police.

My understanding, from reports by neighbours, was that they were almost feral, having had no parental guidance of note.

 

I didn't visit the property until the end of the tennancy because I had hired a property agency to do this for me. In fact, I was advised not to have any contact with the property or tennant for professional reasons.

I may have been a little naive, but this was my first attempt to let a property.

 

 

I did not report them to social services because I was unaware of the information contained in my first post until after she had left my flat.

Obviously, she didn't leave a forwarding address.

 

 

Now, regarding looking at ways of getting my rent back....

This woman has put myself, my wife and my own son through years of hardship because of her actions. I have had to pay through the nose to rebuild my flat whilst paying double bills for the flat and my own home.

I have been to within 2 days of bankrupcy due to the incompetance of our local council tax department - exemptions only last for so long and only last whilst the property is uninhabitable as opposed to uninhabited - and suffered long term stress whilst fighting to survive financially.

 

I would suggest to you that my loyalty must lie with my own family before I can start considering the welfare of the person who almost ruined my life.

I am not by nature a vengfull man but you must surely agree that it is not ones first instinct to offer charity to the person who is putting your family in peril.

[Pen]

"The psychobitch tennant actually got rehoused because she got social services to free her from her self imposed squalour.

Oh well. Do I sound bitter?"

 

"Actually, no I'm not. All I want is for her and her brood of fatherless spawn to suffer for eternit"

 

I am afraid if you think that your above comments are in any way funny, an attempt at humor then I do wonder about the authenticity of your post as I am left wondering who is in fact the psycho.

 

I can guarantee that by the way you have described these children's living conditions this women would not have wanted the social services involved Social Services involvement must have been due to a kindly neighbour, School, Health Visitor in fact anyone who has concerns regarding a child's wellbeing.

I am at a loss as to how you became a chairmen of a charity involving children or you motives for such work as your philosophy on life seems to be one of I'm or right Jack, how sad is that.

Money seems to be the driving force for some people, you have 2 homes. the way you have described these children's home then I bet before long they won't have one they will probably end up in foster homes. Your financial problems will be sorted out eventually so well done you you can give yourself a pat on the back for being so clever but don't you think theres a bit more to life just be glad you don't have hers

I am happy to say i will not be reading any more of your posts and thank goodness the rest of the members of this site are a very caring bunch of people. The thought of your greed compared to these children's welfare is making me sick. My advice to you would be to sort it out with the council, its them you should be wishing to hell and back along with the mother not those poor kids

Pen

[crocodiles]

I take great offence at your comments Pen.

In case you decide not to read this, I have sent you a private message with roughly the same content as this post.

 

 

I am not motivated by greed.

I am not a 'proffesional' landlord.

I rented my property because I bought a larger house and the sale of my flat fell through.

I am not wealthy. I bought a larger house because I worked hard to be able to afford it. It was not inherited!

I rented this flat in pristine condition and the tennant destroyed it.

She has by her actions put myself, my wife and my own son through years of financial and phsycological distress.

 

I try to be a good husband and parent, and due to her actions, I have not provided for my family as I would have liked to.

 

If you were unfortunate enough to be put in this position by someone, your views may be slightly different.

 

I was involved in my charity work on a voluntary basis.

I found it incredibly fulfilling to have a positive impact upon those kids - who came from the same streets as I did.

The need to break the cycle of poverty, ignorance, cynisism and defeatism that is passed on from generation to generation in society is very urgent, for this imbalance in opportunity creates hatred, crime, oppression and continued ignorance.

I did not change the world but there are young people where I live who have been offered an alternative to their often inevitable fate.

Many passed through our project unchanged but some took their opportunity and are now musicians, lighting engineers, sound engineers, do their own voluntary work or have simply gained some self belief and confidence throught their achievements.

I do not broadcast this work or its consequences but you have questioned my character as a human being and I find your comments deeply offensive.

Who are you to judge my motivations or actions?

 

I may be wrong, and I hope I am, but you seem to be very quick to judge others and that smacks of self-righteousness.

 

I suggest that you have a look inwards before you launch your attacks on others.

 

Now, can we return this thread/site to it's original purpose?

[StudentInDebt]

I am afraid if you think that your above comments are in any way funny, an attempt at humor then I do wonder about the authenticity of your post as I am left wondering who is in fact the psycho.

 

I'm left wondering why some people in this country have become so politically correct that they can't recognise a bit of harmless invective when they see it.

[bathgatebuyer]

Sorry Crocodiles, reading Pen's post has confused me somewhat. Are you merely a property owner who hired an agent who failed to manage a property on your behalf, or are you a social worker? Were you the one raising your own children in a careless and cruel manner, or were you merely a property owner unaware that such things were happening in your property due to the poor performance of your agent?

 

Seems to me - as a Commercial Property Manager - that your only error of judgement was in using the agents that you did. Were they members of any professional body? If they were members of the RICS, you may be covered. It's only a slim chance given that it was a residential firm of agents, but may be worth checking.

 

Oh, and remember in future, if ever you let out a property, remember and look out your social work qualification, it looks like it's expected of you!

[Rich44]

"The psychobitch tennant actually got rehoused because she got social services to free her from her self imposed squalour.

Oh well. Do I sound bitter?"

 

"Actually, no I'm not. All I want is for her and her brood of fatherless spawn to suffer for eternit"

 

I am afraid if you think that your above comments are in any way funny, an attempt at humor then I do wonder about the authenticity of your post as I am left wondering who is in fact the psycho.

 

I can guarantee that by the way you have described these children's living conditions this women would not have wanted the social services involved Social Services involvement must have been due to a kindly neighbour, School, Health Visitor in fact anyone who has concerns regarding a child's wellbeing.

I am at a loss as to how you became a chairmen of a charity involving children or you motives for such work as your philosophy on life seems to be one of I'm or right Jack, how sad is that.

Money seems to be the driving force for some people, you have 2 homes. the way you have described these children's home then I bet before long they won't have one they will probably end up in foster homes. Your financial problems will be sorted out eventually so well done you you can give yourself a pat on the back for being so clever but don't you think theres a bit more to life just be glad you don't have hers

I am happy to say i will not be reading any more of your posts and thank goodness the rest of the members of this site are a very caring bunch of people. The thought of your greed compared to these children's welfare is making me sick. My advice to you would be to sort it out with the council, its them you should be wishing to hell and back along with the mother not those poor kids

Pen

 

 

The phrase is "I'm all right jack" not or right.

 

As for the rest of your little tirade I suggest you get a life. By your logic when someone says i'm gonna kill you then they should be locked up for attempted murder? its paraphrasing/sarcasm/jokes etc perhaps if you cant understand such things even when they are pointed out to you then you should stay away from public forums such as this one before you really take offence at something innocuous and have a heart spasm

[meagain]

By your logic when someone says i'm gonna kill you then they should be locked up for attempted murder?

 

Precisely. When call centre staff say that their penalties are acceptable because "everyone else imposes them", I tell them "In that case, I'll just come around and kill you - after all, other people commit murder ...". This usually gets the point over quickly (and they couldn't prove malice on my part if they tried).

[crocodiles]

Ahhh.....

 

A little realism is good for the soul.

Thanks for the posts.

I know that I'm not an evil despot at heart - really, I'm not - but those posts from poison Pen got under my skin, which was silly of me.

 

I make no bones about being a little naive in my dealings with the property management company. They were recommended to be by a neighbour and I just blindly accepted their recommendation.

 

In my defence, I was extremely busy at the time feeding underpriviliged children to my pack of especially undernourished rottwillers as part of my campain to keep the poor little urchins off street corners.

Also, I had deen distracted by my campain to introduce cut price smack to primary schools in poorer areas of town (why should the poor kids not have access to the same goodies as the rich kids??).

 

Once I had finished setting up my vital organ donation/sale/swapshop service in partnership with cheepbooze offsales inc. the damage had been done.

Poor little red ridinghood had redecorated my little palace (I wasn't too keen on the 'hiroshima' motif) and moved on to her next changing rooms project.

 

Ironically, she has built on her experience and has moved from flat to flat in my old village.

And...... unbeknown to me at the time, she had already served her artistic apprenticeship before she got her inspired little hands on my pad.

She is really making her mark now and in time she could create a whole new movement.

 

My biggest regret is having done all of this work to return my flat to its previous state of domestic compatability.

With a little insight, I could have snapped her up in my capacity as an exploitative agent and put her forward for the Turner prize at the Tate modern.

Would have won hands down.

 

Still, Hindsight is a wonderfull thing, eh?

[cariad mo brwydrwr]

PMSL !! I bet she would have rivalled tracey Emin's 'Bed' a few years back - and to think, you could have made millions.... oh well, I'm sure your little 'business ventures' will tide you over for now, hehe.

 

Seriously though, I have been quitely following your thread and as I'm not any authority on this sort of thing as I am on the tenant side of things I can't offer any constructive help, but may I just say good luck and wish you all the best in trying to get some compensation. IMO you should be going after the letting agency as they should have been doing regular inspections on the property to ensure it was kept in good condition. As a tenant I have inspections every 3 months.

 

Anyway, best of luck. Hope it works out in your favour

[meagain]

I know that I'm not an evil despot at heart - really, I'm not - but those posts from poison Pen got under my skin, which was silly of me.

 

We all have to let the evil despot in us come out to play at some time or another. I find it's good for my sanity

[blacksheep1979]

Well crocodiles, you're obviously an evil evil man as well as a landlord. Being a landlord makes you a property owning monster as nobody should have need for more than one little house for themselves (and all property is theft after all). You should have done the property up and given it to the poor hard done by ex tennant as this would have balanced out your ying/yang and given your karma a boost which may have gone some way to canceling your terrible money grabbing ways. Nobody should be rewarded for working hard and trying to get something extra/better for their families that others may not have - I hope this is a lesson to you.

 

Oh and on another note - good luck.

[goforit]

Thanks blacksheep, I'm not normaly the eye for an eye type but in this case I really would like my pound of flesh

 

Remember if you are in Scotland it is a completely different legal system. The majority of the housing law is different. Govan Law Centre has good pages; although is mainly geared up for tenants, it would be beneficial to read.

 

Just so you know since Scots Law changed with regard to selling an individual's assets to enforce payment of a decree (the equivalent term for "judgement" under Scots Law), you have very little chance of obtaining an Exceptional Attachment Order (which is what is required should you wish to "reposess" an individual's assets, especially if she has a good solicitor (who preferably, for her, has experience in this type of law).

 

If you can still claim against the assets of the Letting Agent, this would be most beneficial. No point in getting mad at your ex-tenant - it isn't going to get you anywhere. Whats more, she probably has a load of problems hereself.

[goforit]

I would also suggest some legal advice you should have gone to the police as soon as it had been noticed as this is criminal damage and taken tenant to small claims. I also see you mentioned you are paying Council Tax, shouldn't an empty property be exempt?

 

Ohh yeah Scottish Small Claims is £750.00. The next "level" is that of Summary Cause, where the limit is £1500.00, although the process is only moderately more complicated than Small Claims.

 

However, if you wish to go any higher than a £1500.00 claim then you are talking about an Ordinary Cause which is exceedingly expensive and complicated action. For starters there are no "forms" to fill in - you have to "prepare" a writ - which involves constructing a statement of facts and forming "pleas-in-law".

[crocodiles]

Thanks Megan & Blacksheep.

 

I have taken all of your constructive comments on board.

With this in mind, I am going to use my ill gotten gains to set up an ASBO centre.

I invisage a similar set up to the Duke of Edinburgh awards scheme, whereby I will invite local jakies (street dwelling alcoholics to you non-Scots), junkies and hoodies to spend a few days at my flat with no supervision.

I will invite my ex property managers to administrate the scheme.

 

Depending on the amount of damage they can cause over a set timescale, they will be awarded either Bronze, Silver or Gold ASBO's, with special merit given to any structural damage they can inflict on the capitalist money-making hub of evil that I used to call home.

 

In the spirit of my new found financial chastity, all costs will be met by myself. Don't worry, I have several years experience at meeting all reconstruction costs, so I'm qualified to do this.

 

In this way, I can revitalise the local commmunity by reintroducing a sense of pride in achievement in itself.

 

If the scheme takes off, It could be cascaded throughout the country on a voluntary basis.

 

If any of you out there wish to donate your property - the one you are currently living in will suffice - we could sort out the country's ills at one stroke.

Think of it as a sort of localised national service.

By allowing these poor misunderstood little angels access to wreak havoc in our homes, we will help keep them off the streets.

In this way we can all ditch our global toasting vehicles and return from IKEA and B&Q on foot in the knowledge that we won't be mugged, robbed or assaulted at every corner, bus stop or underpass en route thanks to our far sighted generosity.

 

Now, If IKEA and B&Q could only get behind the scheme, they could set up cheap booze & methodone aisles so that we can help get the party started, so to speak.....................

 

Once the ball is rolling, the whole thing could be celebrated by hosting an 'ASBO personality of the year' show.

Or possibly set up a long running reality TV soap, possibly entitled, 'I'm a parasite, get me out of here!

This would take form of an endurance show that tests the mettle of these pillars of society.

Set tasks could include;

 

Destroying plumbing and living as long as possible in the premises without water or sanitation.

 

Smashing windows and living the outdoor life indoors.

 

Destroying all furniture and living on the floor.

 

Redecorating walls with a fecies motif and surviving as long as possible without breathing apparatus.

 

That is obviously just a rough guide.

If any of you Evil landlords or money grabbing home owners wish to contribute ideas or properties, drop me a line!

 

 

Am I taking this too far??

[bathgatebuyer]

Crocodiles, don't even go there! You are describing my jakey junkie benefit fraudster neighbours down to the ground!!!

 

Still, as long as I allow it to carry on and know that my karma is being untold good, then it's all fantastic!!!

 

And if there's a repeat event of last New Year when 8 police officers turned up because of their carryings on and the violent disturbance they caused then so much so the better.

 

Crocodiles, I'm sure you and I can sleep easy in our beds at night from now on by putting our lives and happiness on the back burner for the good of society.

 

Hallelujah!

[crocodiles]

Thanks Goforit.

 

On a more serious note....

I am currently boning up on all of the advice given so far.

I think I may have a case against the Letting agency but I will keep my powder dry until I have gained enough info to keep taking pot-shots at my case 'til it stands up on it's merits.

 

I will not be wasting my time chasing my ex tennant as firstly, she has no obvious assets and secondly, stripping her of whatever she does have won't help her young children.

They didn't ask for this and they have enough of a challenge to make something out of their lives as it is.

 

Believe it or not - you might not, on the evidence of my previous posts (should I put 'humour' in red font?) - when I first encountered the damage to my flat, I told my wife that she would not destroy us and we would not destroy her.

One day she might gain enough maturity to understand the consequences of her actions and if we actively sought punitive vengance, then we were no better than her.

 

To rise above it was the only option.

Happily, we are only a set of kitchen doors away from putting the place on the market.

It is looking good again - better than when we first left it - and I hope to have it sold by Xmas.

 

So, all's well that ends well and if I can have a bit of a laugh at her expense and get something back from the letting agency, so much the better.