UKPC PCN failing to display a blue badge - Onyx retail park, Wath upon Dearne

[cjt]

There should be thumbnails of them including the invoice it's self future up the thread

[ericsbrother]

OK, main sign doesnt mention any terms in its contrcat about anything other than 2 hours stay and even then doenst say that there is an obligation to pay them if you overstay

- Mentioning other signs makes that sign an invitation to treat

so no contract offered at all.

 

the sign on the post by the bay says disabled parking only,

nothing about blue badge and no indication that this contractual condition is subject to UKPC having any right to demand monies for disobeying.

You were thus correctly parked at the time.

 

However, despite these massive erros UKPC are terminally stupid and greedy so they wont admit that they cant read or write themselves and will chase you for the money that isnt owed. They never seem to learn.

 

If UKPC take this all the way and lose( as they will if they do sue you) you should ask POPLA exactly why they decided in the way that they did bearing in mind all of the above

[Oddfellow]

The alleged transgression is stated as "parking in a disabled bay without displaying a disabled person's badge".

 

 

Given that there is no such thing (they make no reference to the unenforceable blue badge scheme), and you can demonstrate to a court that the person is identified as disabled, I cannot see a Judge upholding their claim.

[cjt]

Popla refused the claim because of the sign over on the right.

 

I said to them that the sign I first read was the entrance sign and the other which was 'disabled parking only ' to me that was the term I parked under.

 

I said you should not have to walk out of the way of disabled bays to read t & c or there would be no point parking in them.

 

I also said I've proven the client is registered disabled with high rate mobility and yet they still declined the appeal.

 

Plus the carpark is free

 

It mentions blue badge holders only on the numerous other signs scattered around.

Like I was supposed to park up then go read them.

 

I told them that if those 'disabled parking' only signs had said 'blue badge' then I'd have been made aware at the time of parking but they don't.

 

So they think it's acceptable for a disabled person to go looking for a sign to read the t & cs.

 

Well I'd like to sue them as well and POPLA because that was a waste of time �� .

[ericsbrother]

the other signs dont mean anything,

the sign at the entrance is the important one and that says nothing about anything.

The smaller signs do offer a contract but having accepted the invitation of the big sign to come and park you dont have to accept the new offer.

 

It is like going into a shop with a sign saying 50% off most items.

This doesn't force you to buy anything and the shopkeeper doesn't have to sell you any item at 50% off, if is just a "come and look" sign.

 

Now with the parking notices you have taken the first sign at its word, entered and the if you don't like the contract offered on the little signs there is nothing to say you don't have to leave but you could be considered a trespasser.

 

This is for the landowner to decide upon, not some mickey mouse parking co who after donkeys years of losing court claims because of their rubbish signs still cant be bothered to employ someone to write them who actually knows what to put on them to be a contract that doesn't confuse people.

 

IF UKPC do ultimately take it further then you can raise the Equalities Act matter but I would save your money for the moment and dont start a fight with them but let them hang themselves.

 

You can ask for copies of their disabilities policies and other evidence from them if they sue you for the money they claim is due from this event.

 

They wont be able to avoid answering questions by not providing some evidence, more trawling of previous cases will be needed to really stick it to them though as most county court judges wont be bothered to look up the law for themselves, they expect you to provide the proof of any claim or assertion.

[cjt]

Well I've just received a letter from them demanding the £100 payment and I've to pay within 28 days. Which obviously I'm not going to.

 

 

They said a charge of another £60 if I don't pay within that time.

 

 

Which again I'm not.

 

 

should I just leave them to it now until I receive something about a court?

[ericsbrother]

If they get their pet lawyers involved it will be worth sending a rebuttal letter as that can be used to show that you are a reasonable person and their behaviour isnt and then claim for full costs under CPR 27.14.2(g).

 

Many of the parking co's are now learing the lesson that if someone has a damned good reason for denying the debt you lose money by suing them as others tend to believe it as well.

 

 

The sad truth is that 90% of people pay up and moan afterwards rather than fighting the claim in the first place.

The business model of most parking companies is based around this rather than making money from parking itself

[cjt]

I won't pay because I feel I need to speak up for my client who is unable to.

Who is unable to make decisions and certainly who is unable to apply for a blue badge but who is still severely disabled and deserves to be treat like any other disabled person with a blue badge.

 

 

He was not given a badge saying "hi I'm disabled " at birth so for them to ask for his valid disabled badge is out of order. ��

 

 

ill just hang on now,

they've given me 28 days to pay this sum,

but spending 7 in the sunshine (hopefully ) with a jug of sangria ��priorities ��

[Oddfellow]

All well and good, but don't make the mistake of burying your head in the sand and imagining it will go away just because you want it to.

 

 

Make sure you follow the sage advice given by EB and others on here, sending letters in accordance with court-imposed timelines, but you WILL be expected to do some reading around the field for yourself, both on other threads here and on a blog by a guy called the Parking Prankster (who frequently posts on the outcomes of recent court cases, including the case numbers). It is useful to include those that are RELEVANT as part of your defence, because while judgements in County Court do not set formal legal precedent (as would cases heard in a higher court or a criminal court), district judges don't often like to buck a trend by going against previous judgements.

 

 

Always make sure you keep the thread updated when you get any correspondence in relation to the matter, and advice will invariably be forthcoming.

 

 

Good luck!

[cjt]

Ty Odd fellow.

There's no way I intend to not fight this I'm determined.

 

 

In fact I've spoken to a solicitor today , someone who's dealing with another ongoing claim I have ��

she was disgusted, and advised me to fight it.

 

 

I knew my union fees I've paid last 20 years would come in useful one day lol.

 

 

Firstly I've to go through the union but the solicitor said that she can't see a reason why they won't represent me if it goes as far as court.

 

 

I'm thinking a nice solicitors letter at some point outlining the equality act etc might make them less cocky ��

[ericsbrother]

you wont need a solicitor,

generally they know little about parking matters or the POFA

but if they are up on contract law and equalities matters

and are happy to work for free then by all means use them.

 

 

It is not worth spending money on a fight that may never happen.

It is all down to the idiots at UKPC and as they really ar rubbish at their job your fight will be easy.

So, you WAIT and se what they do.

[cjt]

It would all be for free, through my union.

 

 

I have to contact GMB first to see if they would take it on.

Which I'll do later.

 

 

UKPC have really annoyed me though so even if they don't take me to court I feel the need to take them and the landowner.

 

 

They shouldn't be allowed to do this.

I'll take legal advice first, see where I stand.

[ericsbrother]

they havent done anything yet so WAIT until they do.

 

 

Being upset is not a cause for action by them, you or anyone.

 

 

When they do send you a letter, post it up here and we will advise.

 

 

It may be that the letter creates a situation where you can sue them but at the moment nothing has actually happened.

[cjt]

Ok ty for the advice

[cjt]

Back from my holidays, not received anything as yet

[ericsbrother]

Havent you read anything? They HAVE to stick to a timetable and it isnt time for them to act yet.

[cjt]

Yes but I didn't think they would because as soon as POPLA reached their decision they sent me a letter straight out demanding £100 I'd have thought it would still have to have been the £60 seen as though I was appealing.

[ericsbrother]

They have to restart the clock

so expect something at the beginning of next month.

 

I agree though, they do like to send out letters that arent part of the procedure and explain this away to the authorities as being "advisory" letters.

 

Not harassment or misleading communications then so that is alright.

[cjt]

Just noticed on the parking charge I was issued, it's asking for £100 but the signs around the carpark say £90

even sticking an extra tenner on, cheeky gets.

 

 

Read the BPA code of practice and it states they should give time for people to read their terms and conditions and time to leave, and this time could be longer for disabled people

 

 

well the charge was issued at the exact time as seen.

 

 

Plus it also says the signage should ideally be readable from the car or leaving the car which it definitely wasn't. ��

[ericsbrother]

that is enough to win you any court claim so make sure the pictures are kept. measurments are also useful, size of signs, height above ground etc but more importantly the size of the letters and colour of signs, charcters, whether they use the same font and so on. Many signs are a dogs breakfast hence the confusing aspect of an appeal being successful at court.

[cjt]

I'm going to go back this weekend sometime with my bloke so he can measure, signs, lettering etc. Might as well get as much info together just in case it does end up in court

[cjt]

Hi. Well today I received a letter from the debt recovery agency DRP, asking me for £160 and to pay before 17/4.

Obviously I not going to but do I just ignore or do I contact them to say "on ya bike"��

[DragonFly1967]

No point in wasting a stamp (or any bandwidth) replying to these clowns.

You'll just encourage them by making them think that if they hassle you enough, you'll pay up.

 

 

I've got a blown lightbulb that has more power than they do

You can quite safely ignore anything that they send you.

 

 

They can't do court (as they don't own the debt) so all that they can do is write you scary letters.

You'll usually get 3 or 4, the last one being a "reduced" amount, at which point you know they're getting desperate

[ericsbrother]

the first thing you do is learn to read properly. There are thousands of threads on CAG about dca's and they all sat the same thing, dca's have no powers to do anything ever so you ignore them. You cannot just expect to work in isolation so do your homework, read a hundred threads on parking here and then read the POFA so you understand paras 5, 6, 8, 9 11 and 12 fully.

 

Read the Parking pranksters blogspot and web pages, particularly previous important cases and decisions. When you have done that you will see that none of this is scary at all. then put your efforts into somehting you have a bit of control over

 

What have you done about photographing the signage?

Hi. Well today I received a letter from the debt recovery agency DRP, asking me for £160 and to pay before 17/4.

Obviously I not going to but do I just ignore or do I contact them to say "on ya bike"��

Edited April 6, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[mikeymack2002]

Have a look at 1.2 on page 5 (highlighted for your ease) it says it all, you do not have to prove you are disabled that's discriminatory!

SN01360 edited.pdf