Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Hi, the vehicle went to Audi Chingford on Thursday 13th May. I did state beforehand that I only wanted a diagnostic. The technician out of courtesy opened the drain letting huge deposits of water escape the seals. Video evidence was provided via AUDI cam. The link for the audi cam has been forwarded to BMW and Motonovo. I spoke to branch manager explained the situation and he stated he would sent me an email outlining the issue. Audi state this is not really an issue and more of a design flaw. However, the seals still have water ingress. I purchased the vehicle with £0 deposit on a 60 months HP plan for £520.00. The vehicle total was £21000. I did not go for any extended warranty. I live almost 70 miles away from the aftersales centre in Peterborough. I have previously uploaded the document I forwarded to BMW however it was in word format. I have had to buy a new tyre almost three days after purchasing vehicle. BMW still have not compensated me for the v62 cost as they said they would. 
    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Hot Air Balloon Flights


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2662 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I purchased two hot air balloon flights in 2015. Due to weather conditions the flights I booked and subsequently booked were cancelled - this happened 4 times. The person I purchased the tickets for is now pregnant so cannot fly so I have asked for a refund.

 

I have been refused any refund and it is in the t&c's that the vouchers are non refundable.

 

Would I have any chance of success challenging this in county court citing the consumer rights act 2015 - unfair terms in a consumer contract provision?

 

I have paid £204.00 and not received a service.

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't think Consumer Rights Act can help you here. I think it is quite reasonable for balloon flights to be subject to weather conditions and for the vouchers to be non refundable. If you can't use the vouchers, just check that you can sell them on for other people to use.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

the argument is about the performance of the contract. Just saying they are non-refundable isnt really good enough because ballon flights will be prone to weather restrictions so some kind of alternative settlement should be offered if they cannot perform their part of the bargain. It douesnt have to be open ended or they could delay things until after you are too old to take a flight.

How many times did you attempt to fly/ how many dates were agreed and then cancelled by bad weather. There are previous exaples of this going to court and the outcome will depend on what is considered a reasonable number of attempts to fulfil the contract. 4 times in a year is enough to get you your money back as no-one would expect you to drag this on beyond a year.

Get sending a LBA and then use the small claims procedure if you dotn get a refund. You will need to say in the lba what it is that you want and by when ( refund of £204 by 14 days because the company failed inits performance of its contractual obligations to provide the service paid for within an acceptable timescale.).

Try and finda refernce to a previous case, I certainly remember one from a few years back where the number of cancellations was what it required to kick in the breach of contract claim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Thanks for your response.

 

It was 4 times in 2 years. All 4 times were due to weather. Once a flight was cancelled I would have to wait for another to become available in the area my vouchers were valid for and then go through the process of getting time booked off work etc. My 5th flight was booked for March 21st - it was unlikely weather would be good enough in March but if I don't have the vouchers booked for a flight then they expire.

 

I have sent a LBA, but I have not found a previous case. I will get looking into that now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hot Air balloon operators have these problems because of UK weather being very unpredictable. They can only operate when it is safe to do so, complying with relevant aviation rules.

 

If this were to go to court, i suspect the operator will argue about each of the 4 cancelled fights and what the issues were, for which they will have full records.

 

Given how difficult it can be to actually enjoy the flights, your only argument can be that the terms are unfair. That there should be a right of refund after a certain number of cancelled trips by the balloon operator and no expiry date for the vouchers.

 

It will be an argument about the contract terms and not consumer rights as such.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

The reasons for the cancellations were legitimate - once raining, twice higher winds at altitude and on the other occasion it was misty in the morning at the take off location.

 

My argument was unfair terms. I was refused a partial refund less an admin fee and the firm refused the involvement of an ADR firm.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will ask the site team whether they should move this to a consumer rights/legal thread area, as the guys who know more about this, won't look in the holiday folder.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thread moved to General Legal Issues.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a lot of research into this - although I failed to find a successful court action, and only a few details of a failed case.

 

I did find an article ran in The Guardian in 2015 where the journalist successfully got a refund for the customer and I got a copy of the OFT guidelines for unfair terms in entertainment contracts. I emailed the Journalist and to my surprise not only did they respond but were willing to help me obtain a refund.

 

I sent all of this information to Virgin and they have issued me a cheque refund today.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great news well done and lets us know when the cheque clears.

 

Is it possible you could post a link to the Guardian Article you mention as it may be useful information to assist other users, also remember you may be able to help others from your experience.

 

Well Done

How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Link to post
Share on other sites

:thumb:

How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done !

 

Hopefully others in this position will now be able to find this CAG thread through a google search and know there is a chance of getting a refund.

 

I was not convinced a court claim would definitely work, if the balloon operator evidenced good reasons for cancelled flights. I should imagine that due to weather conditions, that many people never get to use their vouchers, as the booked days might never coincide with safe flying conditions. If the balloon companies had to refund every customer in this position as a legal requirement, they would have to increase prices or go out of business. Of course these balloon companies would not want adverse publicity from media, so would refund to stop this.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

The cheque has arrived this morning - the attached letter simply states please find your refund enclosed.

 

I really don't know what would have happened if it had gone to court. All of the information I read from the OFT were guidelines, not actual rules, so would have been totally down to the Judge's interpretation as to whether any of the terms were considered unfair. I might simply have got it because it was cheaper to refund me £204 than to travel and defend the claim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...