At loggerheads with Main dealer over charges - Advise required please

[AllenJ]

Seat Alhambra Ecomotive TDI 2011 : 70000 miles on the clock.

 

Bought from SEAT dealer @ 6000 miles in 2012 as first owner post reg, been serviced by SEAT approved dealer ever since.

 

Apologies in advance for the lengthy message :

 

Booked the car into an approved SEAT dealership garage on the 30th of June 2016, for a diagnostic check, due to the Engine light being on. £108 charged for diagnostics.

 

Same day got a call back, diagnosed with AdBlue system overheating, will need replacement costing in excess of £500 but cannot guarantee it’ll fix the problem, however, they cannot know for sure until this preliminary job is done. In addition to that, they found some other problems, one of which was a gear oil leak and will require a seal, circa, £70. I agreed for the job to be carried out.

 

A week later, the garage called to say, upon careful inspection, they cannot just do the seal without removing the gearbox, but will require 8 hours labour to do, as the leak is on the inside, hence the £70 charge will now be £500+ to seal the oil leak. Yet again, a disclaimer, we cannot guarantee that the problem will be fixed. After a few phone conversations and the Customer adviser giving a 95% confidence guarantee on resolution of the leak, I agreed to the extra £500 job be carried out with a total bill of £1300.

 

Week 2: day 1, I received a phone call, that whilst my car was in their garage, a can of Dr Pepper drink exploded causing a lot of stain in the car. The car will require valeting at a cost of £100. Am I willing for them to proceed? I thought it was a joke, but I politely told them, neither my wife nor myself drinks Dr Pepper , hence the can being in the car is mystery, also, the car being in their care, they should fully valet my car removing all stains at their expense not mine. They refused but promised to clean it as much as they could.

 

Week 2: Day 3; another call followed by an email arrived. Email attached below

 

*****************Start of email from Customer adviser ***********************

 

Upon removing your vehicles gearbox, the technician has discovered a hole in the casing. The technician believes the hole in the casing has been caused by a component of the clutch coming away and creating the hole. This has subsequently drained the gearbox of the gearbox oil.

 

 

This leaves two options.

1. We can rebuild your gearbox, replacing the damage casing and the bearings that are potentially damaged from the oil starvation. This would also require a replacement clutch as part of the repair. This option will extend repair time due to parts sourcing, which could take as much as a few weeks. Total Cost £1714.15 (This is in addition to the £586.19 already quoted)

 

 

2. We can replace your gearbox. This would be a complete replacement, which is shipped as one unit, and will be a straight swap of the old one; also with a replacement clutch. This part would be easier to source and should be available under normal ordering times. Total Cost £3671.85 (This is in addition to the £586.19 already quoted)

 

Let me know how you wish to proceed. Both repairs are very extensive and will take a 2-3 days to complete successfully.

***********************End of Email ************************* **************

 

I replied telling them to put the gearbox back, as I didn’t come complaining of gearbox problem, only to be told, they cannot put it back, I will have to recover the vehicle out of their garage on a tow truck if I refuse either of the two options presented, but I will still pay £1300 charged, including the original quote of £586.19 to seal the leak.

 

I’ve tried to reason with them, that addition £1714 is not a reasonable price as an addition, but I feel like I am being held to ransom to pay a total bill of £2900, when the original problem for a car driven to the garage had nothing to do with gearbox but engine light which may have been fixed.

 

Please where do I stand on this, as having a dialogue with this main dealer garage has hit a brick wall. I have even contacted SEAT, as I do not expect a family car bought fairly new and serviced by their so called approved technicians should be requiring a gearbox rebuild after 5 years or 70K of use. Any advice of getting my car back in one piece and not paying £2900 will be highly appreciated.

 

Thank you

Edited July 25, 2016 by Andyorch
Paragraphs

[AllenJ]

Seat Alhambra Ecomotive TDI 2011 : 70000 miles on the clock.

 

Bought from SEAT dealer @ 6000 miles in 2012 as first owner post reg, been serviced by SEAT approved dealer ever since.

 

Apologies in advance for the lengthy message :

 

Booked the car into an approved SEAT dealership garage on the 30th of June 2016, for a diagnostic check, due to the Engine light being on. £108 charged for diagnostics.

 

Same day got a call back, diagnosed with AdBlue system overheating, will need replacement costing in excess of £500 but cannot guarantee it’ll fix the problem, however, they cannot know for sure until this preliminary job is done. In addition to that, they found some other problems, one of which was a gear oil leak and will require a seal, circa, £70. I agreed for the job to be carried out.

 

A week later, the garage called to say, upon careful inspection, they cannot just do the seal without removing the gearbox, but will require 8 hours labour to do, as the leak is on the inside, hence the £70 charge will now be £500+ to seal the oil leak. Yet again, a disclaimer, we cannot guarantee that the problem will be fixed. After a few phone conversations and the Customer adviser giving a 95% confidence guarantee on resolution of the leak, I agreed to the extra £500 job be carried out with a total bill of £1300.

 

Week 2: day 1, I received a phone call, that whilst my car was in their garage, a can of Dr Pepper drink exploded causing a lot of stain in the car. The car will require valeting at a cost of £100. Am I willing for them to proceed? I thought it was a joke, but I politely told them, neither my wife nor myself drinks Dr Pepper , hence the can being in the car is mystery, also, the car being in their care, they should fully valet my car removing all stains at their expense not mine. They refused but promised to clean it as much as they could.

 

Week 2: Day 3; another call followed by an email arrived. Email attached below

 

*****************Start of email from Customer adviser ***********************

 

Upon removing your vehicles gearbox, the technician has discovered a hole in the casing. The technician believes the hole in the casing has been caused by a component of the clutch coming away and creating the hole. This has subsequently drained the gearbox of the gearbox oil.

 

 

This leaves two options.

1. We can rebuild your gearbox, replacing the damage casing and the bearings that are potentially damaged from the oil starvation. This would also require a replacement clutch as part of the repair. This option will extend repair time due to parts sourcing, which could take as much as a few weeks. Total Cost £1714.15 (This is in addition to the £586.19 already quoted)

 

 

2. We can replace your gearbox. This would be a complete replacement, which is shipped as one unit, and will be a straight swap of the old one; also with a replacement clutch. This part would be easier to source and should be available under normal ordering times. Total Cost £3671.85 (This is in addition to the £586.19 already quoted)

 

Let me know how you wish to proceed. Both repairs are very extensive and will take a 2-3 days to complete successfully.

***********************End of Email ***************************************

 

I replied telling them to put the gearbox back, as I didn’t come complaining of gearbox problem, only to be told, they cannot put it back, I will have to recover the vehicle out of their garage on a tow truck if I refuse either of the two options presented, but I will still pay £1300 charged, including the original quote of £586.19 to seal the leak.

 

 

I’ve tried to reason with them, that addition £1714 is not a reasonable price as an addition, but I feel like I am being held to ransom to pay a total bill of £2900, when the original problem for a car driven to the garage had nothing to do with gearbox but engine light which may have been fixed.

 

 

 

Please where do I stand on this, as having a dialogue with this main dealer garage has hit a brick wall. I have even contacted SEAT, as I do not expect a family car bought fairly new and serviced by their so called approved technicians should be requiring a gearbox rebuild after 5 years or 70K of use. Any advice of getting my car back in one piece and not paying £2900 will be highly appreciated.

 

Thank you

[AllenJ]

My concern is the fact that there has been a sudden hike in cost. I would have preferred to have a choice and not just be landed with a quote triple the origin amount quoted.

 

Also, having driven the car in why all of a sudden has the gearbox now being damaged?

My preference would have been to get a second opinion or at least be able to shop around for the best deal not to be lumbered with the dealers options.

[ssparks2003]

Obviously the garage has spent some time taking the car apart, fault finding etc which they are going to want to charge you for which is fair IMHO.

 

if you want the car "rebuilt" this will incur more expense since in will take time and most likely some new parts / consumables to rebuild it. Again the garage is going to want to charge you for this service, again i would say this is fair.

 

But the issue is the garage trying to charge you for anything else, as this is a main dealer rather than a "lock up" garage i assume that you have been communicating with the workshop manager, if this is the case I would first suggest escalating the matter to the MD, if that does not work I would suggest a LBA giving them 10 days to restore your car to the condition that is was brought in or you will issue a claim - BUT, only do this if you are prepared to follow through.

[king12345]

It's the typical trick used by main dealers.

You go in with a blown bulb and end up replacing the engine.

I am kind of forced to take my newer car to toyota for their 5 years warranty and at last service they wanted to replace perfectly fine parts at an extortionate cost.

When I pointed out that a 2 year old car shouldn't have so many faults and if it did they should be fixed under warranty, they backtracked and the "seriously dangerous faults" became just a "bit of advice".

Toyota ceo didn't care and passed the bucket back to the garage manager who duly ignored my communication.

Car for sale now and looking forward to buy a 10 year old vw or audi that I can look after myself, so at least I know that the oil is changed.

[AllenJ]

Obviously the garage has spent some time taking the car apart, fault finding etc which they are going to want to charge you for which is fair IMHO.

 

if you want the car "rebuilt" this will incur more expense since in will take time and most likely some new parts / consumables to rebuild it. Again the garage is going to want to charge you for this service, again i would say this is fair.

 

But the issue is the garage trying to charge you for anything else, as this is a main dealer rather than a "lock up" garage i assume that you have been communicating with the workshop manager, if this is the case I would first suggest escalating the matter to the MD, if that does not work I would suggest a LBA giving them 10 days to restore your car to the condition that is was brought in or you will issue a claim - BUT, only do this if you are prepared to follow through.

 

Thanks for the reply.

I honestly won't have the time to go through courts etc......

I have no doubts about what you are saying, just sounds ridiculous that a quote started from £70, escalated to £500+ then £1700+ for the same job.

 

Surely a competent technician must have sensed the complexity of the job before commencing. IMHO.

[AllenJ]

It's the typical trick used by main dealers.

You go in with a blown bulb and end up replacing the engine.

I am kind of forced to take my newer car to toyota for their 5 years warranty and at last service they wanted to replace perfectly fine parts at an extortionate cost.

When I pointed out that a 2 year old car shouldn't have so many faults and if it did they should be fixed under warranty, they backtracked and the "seriously dangerous faults" became just a "bit of advice".

Toyota ceo didn't care and passed the bucket back to the garage manager who duly ignored my communication.

Car for sale now and looking forward to buy a 10 year old vw or audi that I can look after myself, so at least I know that the oil is changed.

 

Thanks.

[heliosuk]

It's the typical trick used by main dealers.

You go in with a blown bulb and end up replacing the engine.

I am kind of forced to take my newer car to toyota for their 5 years warranty and at last service they wanted to replace perfectly fine parts at an extortionate cost.

When I pointed out that a 2 year old car shouldn't have so many faults and if it did they should be fixed under warranty, they backtracked and the "seriously dangerous faults" became just a "bit of advice".

Toyota ceo didn't care and passed the bucket back to the garage manager who duly ignored my communication.

Car for sale now and looking forward to buy a 10 year old vw or audi that I can look after myself, so at least I know that the oil is changed.

 

Utter rubbish.

 

You have no grounds to prove this or are qualified I would alledge!!

 

The vast majority of dealers act in an exemplary fashion. You just don't hear of it! If you had complained and the complaint was rejected there are usually good grounds for it!

[king12345]

So it is ok for a 2 year old car with 13k on the clock to have a long list of faults incidentally none of them under warranty.

There's a limit on how much they can push it, really.

 

I am not changing tyres deemed dangerous only to find out that they're half way through their life and evenly worn.

And I won't pay £80 a tyre when I can have the same one for half the price.

I know people employed by main dealers and I heard horror stories.

Even the fact that they don't drain the oil but they suck it out with a pump is something a real mechanic would never do.

 

I once took a car for service at the dealer and was told that it needed new brake discs and pads which had been replaced a week before!

They're either incompetent or ripping people off.

 

Do you own a main dealer franchise?

 

How many "split wiper blades" do you replace every day???

Besides, this is not a court of law, so I don't have to prove anything.

 

Anyone writing on any forum speaks of their own experience and gives their own opinion.

[heliosuk]

I think you are missing the point. I analyse thousands of warranty claims a year and as an engineer work out the actual statistics to see if it is an issue or not. Coupled with this I analyse thousands of quality reports. And all of this is from all over the world.

I can safely say that if a claim from a dealer under the normal manufacturers warranty is rejected there is usually a very good reason for it. Invariably it's customer misuse or operating the vehicle outside of guidelines all of which are detailed in the owners hand book.

 

 

Frankly your response is nebulous, has no meaning and does not even attempt to address to OP's questions/complaint.

[Hammy1962]

So it is ok for a 2 year old car with 13k on the clock to have a long list of faults incidentally none of them under warranty.

There's a limit on how much they can push it, really.

I am not changing tyres deemed dangerous only to find out that they're half way through their life and evenly worn.

And I won't pay £80 a tyre when I can have the same one for half the price.

I know people employed by main dealers and I heard horror stories.

Even the fact that they don't drain the oil but they suck it out with a pump is something a real mechanic would never do.

I once took a car for service at the dealer and was told that it needed new brake discs and pads which had been replaced a week before!

They're either incompetent or ripping people off.

Do you own a main dealer franchise?

How many "split wiper blades" do you replace every day???

Besides, this is not a court of law, so I don't have to prove anything.

Anyone writing on any forum speaks of their own experience and gives their own opinion.

 

£80 for a tyre, but you trust your life with one for £40......... Wow.

 

£80 would buy me half a tyre. But, as I brake down from great speed on a wet motorway I want more than £40 a corner stopping me.

 

H

[heliosuk]

OK, this is a better synopsis of the issues.

 

 

Firstly, the AD Blue system cannot overheat, it's a system which injects a substance called urethane into the exhaust to reduce emissions. If the fault codes are detecting unusually high temps this could well be because the DPF is blocked. Invariably this is caused by town running and is becoming and will become more prevalent.

 

 

The gearbox issue is something you need to treat separately though I think I'd go and have a look myself. It cannot have been there long otherwise the box would have seized by now. If indeed it's a natural leak due to age and mileage then sorry, you'll have to foot the bill but you can challenge that damage claim as it should be fit for 100000 miles.

 

 

Given the age and the difficulties VAG are experiencing at the moment don't expect too much hop though.

 

 

Good luck.

[heliosuk]

Yes only £80 hammy :-0. Mine cost £350 a corner, wish I could buy them for £40 and know they are safe, been through two years of rigorous testing in all climates and surface conditions. It's a great life on here knowing you can post the answers to complex questions and criticise a highly regulated manufacturing industry not knowing about it and those that do get chastised.

[dx100uk]

2 threads merged and tidied to one

 

 

dx

[Miaspa 2010]

Yes only £80 hammy :-0. Mine cost £350 a corner, wish I could buy them for £40 and know they are safe, been through two years of rigorous testing in all climates and surface conditions. It's a great life on here knowing you can post the answers to complex questions and criticise a highly regulated manufacturing industry not knowing about it and those that do get chastised.

 

 

 

Completely off topic but £350 a corner??? What tyre size is that???

[king12345]

£80 for a tyre, but you trust your life with one for £40......... Wow.

 

£80 would buy me half a tyre. But, as I brake down from great speed on a wet motorway I want more than £40 a corner stopping me.

 

H

 

That's what bridgestone 155/65r13 cost at ats, £40.

£80 at main dealer, but of course they're better quality, hand picked by the pope himself, placed in warm blankets and shipped by the royal family on foot!

Keep going to main dealer, I just passed mot with no advisory on my good car, an 18 year old vw serviced and fully maintained by (you guessed it) me.

[dx100uk]

Completely off topic but £350 a corner??? What tyre size is that???

 

Dunno don't care

Shouldn't be doing a great speed in wet conditions anyway,,......

Esp on a motorway

[king12345]

I don't know where you guys live, but around here in west London you'll be lucky to get past 30mph on an A road, so no need for a £350 tyre

[Conniff]

It's the typical trick used by main dealers.

You go in with a blown bulb and end up replacing the engine.

I am kind of forced to take my newer car to toyota for their 5 years warranty and at last service they wanted to replace perfectly fine parts at an extortionate cost.

When I pointed out that a 2 year old car shouldn't have so many faults and if it did they should be fixed under warranty, they backtracked and the "seriously dangerous faults" became just a "bit of advice".

Toyota ceo didn't care and passed the bucket back to the garage manager who duly ignored my communication.

Car for sale now and looking forward to buy a 10 year old vw or audi that I can look after myself, so at least I know that the oil is changed.

 

To go off topic for a sec. They can’t invalidate your warranty for not using a franchised dealer – as long as the garage follows the maker’s service schedule and uses OE parts and details this on the bill, you can go anywhere you want.

[heliosuk]

Perhaps King (lol) is living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

 

If he's that good at maintaining his car as he suggests he shouldn't be complaining here.

 

 

Dealer overheads are substantial and have to be recovered somewhere

along with the fact that they are accountable to the manufacturer

 

 

If he's that good he should be running the "model Dealership"

 

 

and lets then see how he gets on lol. [removed]

[king12345]

Perhaps the expenditures are so great that they have to use some "expert advice"

and some "we don't know if changing this £500 will fix the problem" methods.

 

So to answer your question,

most likely I wouldn't be successful by being an honest dealer,

same as you won't be successful in getting a reaction from me despite your trolling rudeness.

[king12345]

Going back to the initial post, op, you haven't got much choice at this point because you let them dismantle your car.

If they put it back together they'll charge you, if they "fix" it it's £2900 with no guarantee that it will be fixed.

It's unfortunately one of the expensive life experience that will make you wiser at a very high price.

Even proving that a gearbox shouldn't fail at 70k is near impossible now that the "experts" have dismantle it.

Feel for you

[AllenJ]

Thanks for all the replies. Interesting reads. SEAT UK has come back with a gesture of goodwill,based on car being bought as ex demo from main dealer and serviced by SEAT , waiting for updates from the garage.

 

I'll keep you posted.

[Conniff]

Thanks for all the replies. Interesting reads. SEAT UK has come back with a gesture of goodwill,based on car being bought as ex demo from main dealer and serviced by SEAT , waiting for updates from the garage.

 

I'll keep you posted.

 

Did you read the text that comes up when you place you mouse over gesture of goodwill ?

 

If not, you should, it explains how they are not offering anything as a gesture of goodwill but you are accepting their offer as a gesture of goodwill.

 

So don't be fooled into thinking otherwise.

[heliosuk]

The goodwill text that appears is a falicy with no basis. It's an opinion only and I and many others in the industry could and probably will take issue with it. Please could it be withdrawn and re-written so it accurately reflects what goodwill actually is?????