Welcome secured loans/charge - sold to Alpha/Prime -repo received - ***Claim Dismissed***

[cruzhughes]

He called possession off and said that there aren’t any arrears and I was techicnally in front.

 

The other party wanted to appeal it's written all out on page63/4 see also post 1277

 

 

Ongoing Dispute with welcome finance from March 2015. With regards to IR, penatly charges fake insurances . Sold on almost immediately

 

 

Should the agreement still be covered by CCA

 

The charge on property should have been discharged upon settlement of 257. Then a new one taken out for 661 or 983

 

The Claimaint issuing claim without having facts dates and amounts correct

 

However Now they have upped the arrears so they look they they are more than to Ppi refund. Still don’t add up to themissed monthly payments

 

Dx is there anything further you think needs to go in

[shamrocker]

Reading back over those pages you referred to, it appears to me that the next hearing is simply to decide how much arrears exist (leaving aside the PPI refund for now) and what the monthly payments should be going forward. The status of the interest and what's happened/happening to the £8k PPI is central to that.

 

None of what you wrote on those pages (63/64) refers to anything other than the Judge ordering the Claimant to disclose documents in respect of the interest status and PPI refund. Does that sound right? Have I missed something important somewhere?

 

Bear in mind, it should be the case that the judge's only remit is to determine the merit of the repo claim (and your counter-claim). It looks like he wants to make definitive call and is giving the Claimant a fair chance to submit the documents that support their argument. He probably has the sense that the documentation ordered won't appear, but the Claimant won't have grounds to appeal when they fail. The rest of your concerns, I would guess, can be argued on another day.

[shamrocker]

Where can I get access to the Court Order that's posted in #1269? Can you PM it to me?

[dx100uk]

you already have it

[dx100uk]

look in

2018-03-26 repo+change of POC folder

under repos march date one

[shamrocker]

Ok, cheers DX. I'll look now. Some stuff is difficult to find in there.

[shamrocker]

That court-order.pdf file refers to the court giving permission for the Claimant to change the POC?

[dx100uk]

which one are you after then..try new order.pdf same folder

[cruzhughes]

That court-order.pdf file refers to the court giving permission for the Claimant to change the POC?

 

The one you want is in 1278

[cruzhughes]

look in

2018-03-26 repo+change of POC folder

under repos march date one

 

The reason these poc were changed is because I picked them up on lots in my defence

[shamrocker]

The one you want is in 1278

 

That's the one. My post in 1402 stands.

 

They have to disclose all correspondence & records in respect of the freezing of interest to you by 8th June and then also serve a trial bundle on you not later than two working days prior to the hearing. [and also file with the Court]

 

They MAY serve a skeleton argument by 8th June.

 

I would just wait until 8th June and see what turns up. There's enough information to hand that will enable you to attack them on several fronts if need be. Let's see what they can muster up though.

 

There may not even be any need for you to prepare a skeleton, subject to above. It appears to me that your fight with regards the charge and total balance will be on another day under another claim.

 

Do you agree?

[cruzhughes]

I don’t think there’s going to be another day or another claim.

 

This last hearing it is all over.

 

The judge and I wanted to finalise it all last time. Him due to retirement and me cos it’s dragged on too long.

 

One point he made that I’ve had no one representing me yet the other side have had solictors and have hit issues along the way. Things not supplied and things the last solictor would take longer than 8 days to obtain.

 

DJ wanted to it dealt with in April before he went and my hols. Solictor opposed this due Yo the time issue. I made a point of saying they’ve had over a year to come up with docs and respond to me. And should have had info in court.

 

Another good thing was in jan hearing they were trying to repo and I showed a statement of settled loan 257. All the judge done was shake his head at sols. He turned up to court and said he’d recieved nothing from me. All lies and had copies of correspondence and proof of posting. Prime had not been sharing with their sols. Solictor looked a dick in front of judge. Judge wasn’t too impressed.

 

Hence why Cliamaint employed a different one last time March hearing

 

New one again in June cos the last one was going on maternity leave in April.

 

I

 

That's the one. My post in 1402 stands.

 

They have to disclose all correspondence & records in respect of the freezing of interest to you by 8th June and then also serve a trial bundle on you not later than two working days prior to the hearing. [and also file with the Court]

 

They MAY serve a skeleton argument by 8th June.

 

I would just wait until 8th June and see what turns up. There's enough information to hand that will enable you to attack them on several fronts if need be. Let's see what they can muster up though.

 

There may not even be any need for you to prepare a skeleton, subject to above. It appears to me that your fight with regards the charge and total balance will be on another day under another claim.

 

Do you agree?

 

I need to start getting stuff together as I struggle leaving things till last minute. I would rather have the bulk done and not use it or amend a few days before. Than wait around for them.

 

Especially as they have sent stuff a day or 2 late in the past. Which limits my time.

 

I firmly believe this is my last stab at it. Wether they produce or not I’m still going to court armed with the facts. I won’t get another. It’s do or die on this last bit

 

What is the remedy I should be asking the court for?

 

Technically nothing should be owed as the loan is all rewrites and charges Ppi and insurances

 

Around 30grand has already been paid to 984. This includes the Ppi refund.

 

984 only came about as it was a direct rewrite of balance from 661 last page of statement they failed to include. Is this because it confirms that?.

 

For what reason other to add more Ppi and arrangement fees?

Term was extended no money changed hands.

 

All done for the benefit of welcome.

So there was no cash advance here like they’d put in their response to defence

Edited May 30, 2018 by dx100uk
merge

[shamrocker]

That's a good question.

 

It does look like the judge is angling to dismiss the claim due to the PPI refund wiping out any arrears.

He may even state that the money should be paid to you, minus the arrears sum.

 

I like to think he's already decided that the claim is dead, and it's now simply a case of leaving the Claimant no option to appeal.

 

It doesn't strike me that he's too interested in the charge or whether the charges would wipe out the whole lot - as this may not even be within his remit within the context of the claim. It probably doesn't stop you pushing the case for the charge being invalid and balance being made up of unlawful penalty charges (plus interest).

 

It might be a waste of time though, but who's to say.

Maybe there'll be something said by the judge regards the charge that will allow you to support an application to the LR to remove it

- afterall, the Claimant has made a crap job of validating it, despite your pleading that it applies to the 2006 loan.

It's a major weakness in not only the claim, but the debt they hope to cash in on.

 

When I say "another claim" - what I mean is, let's say you walk away on the 15th June and the case is dismissed on the grounds that the PPI covers the arrears. The property is safe for now, but you still have the issue of the charge and outstanding balance.

It gives you the opportunity to take stock and then plan the best course of action to get the final closure you seek.

 

My thinking would be to go after the penalty fees, but you may have to do the 'creditor' a favour by demonstrating the chain, and that those charges/fees applied under older agreements were now included within the balance as it stands today.

 

I'd be pretty confident about one day putting this whole thing to bed and being free of it, but might need a bit of extra perseverance and boxing clever.

Edited May 30, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[cruzhughes]

I’ve already tried to go after the fees but due to the wavier no one could help.

 

I’ve also rebadged the original welcome finance complaint to the new owners. They aren’t interested.

 

Dx can explain this more.

 

I exhausted every avenue.

 

One more thing the loan has been overpaid monthly pre may 2015 so really when the calculations are complete that should show less is owing

[shamrocker]

How does the waiver prevent you from taking a creditor to court to claim back unlawful penalty charges?

[cruzhughes]

Insolvent and selling debts to not make their books look as bad?!

 

All out of anybody’s remit. Welcome finance can’t be held accountable for anything anymore

 

http://www.wfs.co.uk/scheme

 

https://www.fscs.org.uk/news/2011/march/fscs-declares-welcome-financial-7pghpepm/

[shamrocker]

Yes, but they sold the accounts on IN FULL, and those links refer to PPI reclaims and advice for creditors as a result of them winding up.

The assignee of the their financial products take on the rights and responsibilities, including any liabilities.

 

I stand to be corrected, but I am sure you have every right to pursue those penalty charges through the courts, only that I'm not entirely sure who you would issue the claim against. That's for another day though.

[cruzhughes]

I’m 99.9% sure they are untouchable due to the what has gone to courts within the waiver of this scheme.

 

I have some docs I’ll have to hunt through them now.

 

My original complaint to prime was about the penalty charges fees and irresponsible lending.

 

I’ll get their final response now

[dx100uk]

good work sham!!!!

pers its about time this waiver was challenged!!

[cruzhughes]

Do you think that’s a possibility? Do you have the final response dx

[dx100uk]

later

[cruzhughes]

Refer to page 35 post 691 onwards

[shamrocker]

Their response is irrelevant, I'd have thought, as they'll tell you what suits them. I have a suspicion that the waiver you refer to is regards to default fees on current accounts?? I'm not 100% on the situation with loans, but for credit cards, you could easily build a case around...and plenty have done it. Like I commented previously, some of the charges I noticed on one of the statement is ridiculous.

 

We're getting ahead of ourselves a bit, but my only slight concern is that a claim for the amount in question might go through Fast Track, which comes with a risk of costs if it goes wrong. Would need Andyorch's input here, but it's really for another day.

 

It may be worth taking a 3-prong attack in your skeleton - invalid charge, penalty charges, no arrears due to PPI refund...CCA too possibly. The judge might well give you an opinion, which you can use as a litmus test as to whether you have scope to go after them separately. It's all food for thought.

[shamrocker]

P.S. The penalty charges argument might undermine your invalid charge argument, unless you have an alternative argument other than lack of chain.

[cruzhughes]

The chain would then become evident.

 

Could we give a breakdown in the skeleton?

 

Or even just work out 257 661 and 984 for now as they are what they have exhibited to the court then revisit the other 7 loans. We already know they are littered with charges and maybe that’s enough to get costs down.

 

I’m glad I had all the docs before Prime bought this debt otherwise I’d still be none the wiser. They don’t like providing things see

 

The court have been made aware from day one that any balance that could be outstanding is made up of fees Ppi and insurances