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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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welcome/ind claimform - now at WS stage


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I will get their witness statement up now andyorch.

 

 

Obiter, I have just check the payment schedule and there is an debit for Emergency Recovery of £205 aswell as a debit of £245 marked "adjustment"

 

 

Will this be arepo fee? Even though it wasn't repo'd?

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Now this is where it gets interesting

 

They have included reposession rights and 50% paid etc

 

That will come under the Consumer Credit Act with a hire purchase agreement. Section 90, 91, 92, CCA 1974

 

Credit Agreements are regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, Hire purchase agreements are regulated by the Hire Purchase Act 1967

 

They have used the wrong agreement to finance the car. and using the CCA 1974 to enforce when it is not a Hire Purchase agreement regulated by the Hire Purchase Act 1967, but a credit agreement under the CCA 1974

 

THAT NEEDS TO BE CONFIRMED THOUGH AS IT IS JUST MY OWN OPINION

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Under the Consumer Contract Regulations the type of finance agreement has to be headed at the top of the agreement.

 

Besides HP or credit agreement, it could say "Fixed Sum Loan Agreement" as an example

 

The agreement at the top states

 

"CREDIT AGREEMENT" regulated by the CCA 1974

 

What is states at the very bottom of the agreement means squat and any reference to HP

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Many thanks for the WS

 

Was your defence the standard Stat Barred defence as used frequently on this forum?

 

Andy

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Hello Andy, my defence was statute barred (which I don't think will get anywhere as they have a payment list showing this isn't correct), I also said that the goods detailed on the agreement were returned within 1 week and although another vehicle was sourced, I did not sign another agreement. So the agreement that they are trying to enforce shows a vehicle that they took back.

 

 

Another interesting spin which is probably irrelevant and another thread altogether, the payments were coming from an ex partners bank account. The copy of the direct debit form they have provided has the account number and sort code on but has my name as the account holder which is incorrect, & my signature for authorisation.

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Hi

 

 

The reality of your case is that although you returned the original vehicle promptly, the Claimant provided you with another vehicle, you used it and had the benefit of it and continued to make regular repayments, in law this means that both you and the Claimant affirmed the contract and therefore unless you can produce evidence in Court to show that last payment was 6 years before the Claimant issued proceedings, which will mean his claim is time barred, I believe that you may struggle to defeat his claim.

 

 

Details under the contract such as colour of the vehicle are less than minor and so the Court will not view such argument as valid.

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

The Mould

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I really need to see your defence verbatim ....beady...have you retained a copy?

We could do with some help from you.

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Andy

 

To amend the defence will not an N244 application be needed to ask permission??

 

There is no need or time to amend the defence...it can be addressed in the witness statement OD

We could do with some help from you.

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I think it was done online, I have a GG number & MCOL number written on paper copy of claim form and I have my handwritten notes which are shown below but are not great as I didn't know, without sight of the agreement whether they were claiming for the car finance or the personal loan that I had with them at a later date.

 

 

Any debt with Welcome Finance is now statute barred.

 

 

No credit agreement in force. Originally had hire purchase agreement on a vehicle which was returned within 14days as it was not road worthy, contract cancelled. Another vehicle was provided but no new hire purchase agreement was produced for me to sign.

 

 

Personal loan taken out with Welcome finance in April 2006, again, now statute barred although on my credit report this is shown as settled and Welcome Finance have then made a new entry for a new loan dated 30.03.2007. This is not correct, I only ever had one hire purchase and one personal loan, neither of them starting in 2007.

 

 

Can Welcome Finance provide me with the credit agreement and proof of last payment?

 

 

I am claiming that as no payment or contact has been made to Welcome Finance in the last 6 yrs, any outstanding debt is now statute barred.

 

 

As I do not know whether the amount of £4683 relates to the hire purchase or the personal loan, I an claiming that if it is for

 

 

a) Hire Purchase - There was no new agreement signed on the new vehicle and the original contact was cancelled when the original vehicle was returned.

 

 

b) Personal loan - This was taken out in April 2006 & not August 2007. No payment or contact made in the last 6yrs so now statute barred.

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Okay had time to digest the contents.....

 

Your witness statement in response must be of the same format as the claimants....you simply go through each point they have raised and counter or agree or expand to the reasoning why it is not accepted.

 

It is really a fully particularised version of your defence.....you will have to retract the statute barred content entirely if you can not deny that the point was falsely raised within your defence.

 

At the end of the day the claim relies on the agreement...the balance of probabilities and the the overriding objective......but at point 14 they clearly state and agree that the agreement was terminated and yet then go on to state that the agreement continued.I would have thought that a fresh agreement would be required in view of the circumstances that happened...one that contains the correct registration and details and payment terms....but you will have to see how the court respond to that.

 

Have a go at drafting a response and I will look in shortly so you can get it emailed to court/claimant...does it actually state in the Notice of Allocation that you must exchange by 4.00pm?

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Andy,

 

 

Yes, it does state 4pm on notice of allocation. I will get started now. Can I mention Obiter's points about wrong type of agreement used? ie. whether it is actually a credit agreement of a hire purchase agreement

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Well it clearly states its an HP agreement near the signature box...but if you feel its misleading then yes refer to it and then let them mull it over....don't actually state the faults ...just that its not valid or misleading or not pursuant to the CCA1974.

We could do with some help from you.

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silly question I know

 

 

but does the agreement number of the agreement they have sent match the one in the POC?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Me neither so you refute that under the paragraph that they refer to it as an exhibit.

We could do with some help from you.

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