UN slams UK Tory for planning to scrap Human Rights Act

[obiter dictum]

UK ruling party’s plan to scrap the Human Rights Act has sparked harsh criticism from the UN arguing that the act would be disastrous for victims of abuses and ruin the UK’s commendable record.

 

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein said the threat by the UK’s Conservative government to replace the act with a British Bill of Rights would leave many people unable to remedy the abuses they suffer.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAAahUKEwjcgPfEo8XIAhWJXRoKHZYlAHc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Flaw%2F2015%2Foct%2F12%2Fun-official-warns-against-uk-plans-scrap-human-rights-act&usg=AFQjCNHLFJNSZcX3Iq9RMC9HDnAPoPybRg

 

 

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/1...-UN-criticism-

Edited October 16, 2015 by obiter dictum
Edited to keep to copyright rules.

[unclebulgaria67]

There is a control freak tendency in some parts of the Tory and Labour parties. They fear citizens having rights, which have been fought for over a long period of time. Why penalise the majority, when it is only a few who use Human Rights laws to frustrate the commonsense application of law.

 

If they don't want to offer prisoners a right to vote, they can amend legislation to offer only limited rights of a few prisoners to vote. France did this and the ECHR ruled that France had applied law which was fully compliant with Human Rights.

 

There are a few terrorists who have used Human Rights laws to frustrate the process of them being deported from the country. As was proved with Jordan, UK government can negotiate full Human Rights protections, so someone wanted by another country can be deported. France seems to manage to deport people they don't want.

 

The Tory party have been taken over by extreme right wingers who hate anything that contains the word Europe. They are mostly small minded island people, who see the world in a very narrow way. It will be the same people who try to drag the UK out of the EU and cause the United Kingdom to split apart. Scotland will almost certainly vote to leave the UK, so they can join the EU as an independent country. Cameron could go down in history as the PM who isolated England from the world, because of the Tories being taken over by English nationalists.

[obiter dictum]

What is absurd is that a British Bill of Rights will only apply to England.

 

Such legislation will not apply to Scotland and Northern ireland. They have stated they will refuse to implement such legislation as it goes against their own constitution and Parliaments. The Welsh assembly has stated the same

 

The ironic thing is that we already have an English Bill of Rights 1689

Edited October 15, 2015 by obiter dictum

[honeybee13]

obiter dictum, would it be possible to post a link to your quote please?

 

HB

[obiter dictum]

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/13/433214/UK-plan-scrap-HRA-sparks-UN-criticism-

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAAahUKEwjcgPfEo8XIAhWJXRoKHZYlAHc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Flaw%2F2015%2Foct%2F12%2Fun-official-warns-against-uk-plans-scrap-human-rights-act&usg=AFQjCNHLFJNSZcX3Iq9RMC9HDnAPoPybRg

Edited October 15, 2015 by obiter dictum

[honeybee13]

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/13/433214/UK-plan-scrap-HRA-sparks-UN-criticism-

 

Thank you. I've reduced your post above to a small amount of the article to keep in with copyright guidance and left a link to the original article.

 

HB

[determindator]

Maybe they're worried it will be used against the financial industry, whenever our liberty is eroded it tends to be related to money, and power of course.

[tobyjugg2]

There are a few terrorists who have used Human Rights laws to frustrate the process of them being deported from the country. As was proved with Jordan, UK government can negotiate full Human Rights protections, so someone wanted by another country can be deported. France seems to manage to deport people they don't want.

 

Absolutely.

 

It would seem the Tories want to drive the separation of Scotland and N.Ireland from the UK, and the UK from the EU,

presumably as that would leave them in an unassailable position as political rulers of England (+maybe wales).

 

I think even the English would soon tire of that and all those people who don't vote, would start voting and the Tories would end up out of power even in that scenario - just too late.

 

Even Camerons American masters seem to wonder what he is playing at.

[sillygirl1]

As somebody who has never voted Tory I think the party misses out on a lot of voters who would vote for them as they seem to be too far to the right...

 

There seems to be no real middle ground in UK politics now and all these Human Rights 'abuses' are getting silly.

 

We are going the way of America in this, did you see the case lately which got thrown out where a lady was suing her young nephew as he had jumped up at her to cuddle her and she ended up with a broken wrist?

 

Perhaps some Tory MP will use Human Rights to claim that their privacy is being violated by the media because they are a Tory MP.

[unclebulgaria67]

Much of what we see is down to human population numbers and a fear of what is happening in the world. The European Court of Human Rights does not look at very many cases from the UK as it is very expensive for people to pursue. The cases that are looked at, mostly go in the favour of UK governments position.

 

But going back to population numbers and fear, there is growing anxiety being fed that Britain is under attack from all sides. Much of the media and some politicians would have you believe it was foreigners who were using HR laws to undermine British (English) values. Hence British bill of Right or English laws for English votes.

 

When you dig a bit deeper, it starts to look like pandering to a part of the population who are nationalists. They somehow believe that Britain would be a stronger economy if it separated itself from the EU and some international organisations like ECHR. Look at the newspapers over recent days with articles quoting some very rich British businessmen, who see Britain as some offshore paradise with lower taxes and trading with the world. But they miss the point that UK will still have to apply most EU regulations and HR requirements, because it comes as a condition of trading with other countries.

 

I personally don't want to see the UK isolate itself and become inward looking. I want UK government to take a commonsense view that Human Rights are essential to maintaining a fair equal society and that pandering to nationalistic views is potentially damaging. The UK has a real mixture of people from many different origins, with different religious and political views. If you feed some nationalists, they will see it in a different way to most people, with increased hostility to those they see as not British or English. Human Rights law is there to prevent discrimination and to allow a diverse society to exist. Trying to wrap Human Rights in a Union Jack sends the wrong message.

[obiter dictum]

With the ECHR 27 other member states and half a Billion people have no issues with the convention. It is only the British Media and right wing government that whipp up this nationalistic fervor

 

Does history teach us anything as to why the ECHR was originally conceived??

[BarnOwl1]

With the ECHR 27 other member states and half a Billion people have no issues with the convention. It is only the British Media and right wing government that whipp up this nationalistic fervor

 

Does history teach us anything as to why the ECHR was originally conceived??

 

If only the original conceptions of ECHR were adhered to it might be more acceptable, but

Labours " open door " policy flooding the UK " economic migrants" and opening putting

migrants before our own citizens caused immediate problems.

 

Why on earth should immigrants from anywhere have " rights" to access the UK welfare

and benefits having contributed nothing whatsoever, it's wrong and needs top be stopped .

Opt out of the ECHR now. Put the UK first.

[obiter dictum]

You need to Google "Margin of Appreciation" on how human rights legislation is interpreted on its signatories

 

The ECHR convention has nothing what so ever to do with EU Treaty law and the issue of free movement of people and goods

 

The ECHR came into force in 1953

 

The EU (EEC) in 1957- Treaty of Rome

 

The myth of migrants accessing our welfare state has already been settled by the compulsory Habitual residence Test that any non UK national has to satisfy before gaining access to our welfare system.

Edited October 16, 2015 by obiter dictum

[unclebulgaria67]

If only the original conceptions of ECHR were adhered to it might be more acceptable, but

Labours " open door " policy flooding the UK " economic migrants" and opening putting

migrants before our own citizens caused immediate problems.

 

Why on earth should immigrants from anywhere have " rights" to access the UK welfare

and benefits having contributed nothing whatsoever, it's wrong and needs top be stopped .

Opt out of the ECHR now. Put the UK first.

 

Migrants have been moving around the world for thousands of years, so the current situation is no different.

 

Migrants are the same as people born in the UK i.e a mixture of people, some who will generate wealth for the country and some not. Jewish people who migrated to the UK before WW2 have contributed a lot to the country. The Asians who migrated to the UK during the last 60 years have also contributed a lot.

 

The National Health service would not be able to run without foreign Doctors and Nurses. At a local Hospital they have Doctors and Nurses from all around the world. When i badly broke my ankle many years ago, the consultants were Indian.

 

If the UK left the EU, the government would still allow hundreds of thousands of migrants per year to come to the UK to live. It would not make much difference and might make matters worse, as British people living elsewhere might face having to return. If you are a pensioner living in Spain, you receive local healthcare free at the point of access, as it is paid for by UK government under EU agreements. If this funding was withdrawn, some of these pensioners will face having to return. Also many EU nationals looking for work may come to the UK before any exit date. The population would increase very quickly.

 

People who are against ECHR should explain exactly what rulings have affected their lifes. I suspect it has nothing to do with ECHR, but relates to existing British law.

[silverfox1961]

There have been some posts on this short thread that are inappropriate and have been dealt with.

 

It is possible for people with differing opinions in politics to have a sensible debate without getting into personal insults.

 

If you cannot deal with differing opinions without being respectful, I have to ask, "Why come to CAG?" One of the reasons people come here is that we don't (generally) judge them. We help!

 

Sensible discussion is fine.

 

If anyone wants to have a go, go elsewhere.

[antone]

 

Why on earth should immigrants from anywhere have " rights" to access the UK welfare

and benefits having contributed nothing whatsoever, it's wrong and needs top be stopped .

Opt out of the ECHR now. Put the UK first.

 

As a general rule, immigrants do not have "rights" to access the UK welfare system. Some non-EU immigrants can receive benefits once they've been given ILR, and EU immigrants can receive certain benefits subject, generally, to reciprocity. It's not particularly easy for non-citizens to claim benefits, lurid tabloid stories notwithstanding.

[tobyjugg2]

As a general rule, immigrants do not have "rights" to access the UK welfare system. Some non-EU immigrants can receive benefits once they've been given ILR, and EU immigrants can receive certain benefits subject, generally, to reciprocity. It's not particularly easy for non-citizens to claim benefits, lurid tabloid stories notwithstanding.

 

The lurid tabloid stories may be over stated, but immigrants are entitled to benefits although the Tories are (rightly in my opinion) reducing and restricting those entitlements

 

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/benefits-for-non-uk-nationals-do-i-qualify

 

... and lets face reality, the reciprocity is very one sided in most cases.

 

I'm not for demonising immigration but do think areas need addressing.

 

In fact, lets say we'll take every Syrian and Iraq nurse they have - right now.

[obiter dictum]

Can we please stop this debate lowering itself into yet another immigrant bashing or anti EU thread

 

We need to concentrate on the real reason why the tories want rid of the act

 

Look at all the decisions our courts have made against this Government, especially on welfare reform as an example.

I can remember detention without trial, the Diplock courts etc

[tobyjugg2]

We need to concentrate on the real reason why the tories want rid of the act

 

Look at all the decisions our courts have made against this Government, especially on welfare reform as an example.

 

You are right, it gets in the way of too many Tory policies, practices and intentions, but we should be opposing the change it because it prevents any one government from easily abusing peoples internationally recognised rights.

[obiter dictum]

There are certain laws that no Governments should touch or interfere with. The ECHR is an international convention. The tories are usng our legal system as ther own political play thing. They are the Peria of the western world at the moment with their nationalist isolationist policies

[antone]

Yes, I know that there are circumstances under which immigrants can receive benefits. Indeed, I have experience of this from both sides: I used to work for the DWP, and my wife is an immigrant (the "good" kind - she's a white native English speaker ) and we had to claim benefits for a while a few years ago.

 

Note that the link you've given only says "may be eligible" - it goes into no detail about Habitual Residence, Right to Reside or immigration status.

 

My point, really, is that there seems to be a widespread myth that just about anyone can wander in to the UK and start claiming benefits. This is emphatically not the case.