A Referendum Stitch Up?

[buckthorn]

Regular opinion polls suggest that over 50% of the population want us to leave the European Union, but even more of us want the referendum to give us a chance to have our say on the matter.

Unfortunately the EU and British elite do not want us to have that opportunity.

 

Back in the 70’s it was the same with the “Common Market”, a cover up for economic and political union, or the ‘United States of Europe’.

We, the British people were not getting then, and have never got, what we were led to believe we were voting for. The political class, covertly backed by the EU, are trying to mislead us yet again.

In short a recycled version of what we thought we were getting back in 1975, but in truth, lies from the establishment.

 

Back then the British establishment knew full well what the implications for our sovereignty were. The then Prime Minister, Ted Heath declared: “through membership of the market we are better able to advance and protect the essence of our sovereignty.” A total lie. An internal government memorandum at the time reads: “We are rather worried about the impact on Parliamentary opinion. The fact of community legislation cannot be disguised. But I feel there is a case for omitting it altogether.” A clear statement of lying to Parliament and the people.

 

The YES campaign then went on to spend 10 times the resources of the NO campaign whereby every UK household was issued, using taxpayers money, a pamphlet encouraging people to vote yes. To quote the Treasurer of the YES campaign, Alastair McAlpine: “The whole thrust of our campaign was to depict the anti marketers as unreliable people – dangerous people who would lead you down the wrong path.

 

It wasn’t so much that it was sensible to stay in, but that anybody who proposed that we came out was off their rocker or virtually Marxist.”

And it’s still the same today!

 

Make no mistake, the British establishment are taking steps to try to cheat us again at the upcoming referendum.

They are so short of confidence in the logic of their arguments that they will, once again, denigrate their opponents in the most irrational and personal of terms. That is why UKIP is vilified more than any other main party for example and right wing Tory backbenchers are normally labelled as ‘troublemakers’.

 

The single or free trade market was supposed to dismantle or remove existing barriers and tariffs. Instead the EU chose ‘harmonisation’, a long winded, resource consuming and

ponderous system which requires a vast army of officials in excess of 30,000 currently. This creates unending new laws and regulations, over 200,000 since its inception.

 

We run a trade deficit of around £50 Billion with the EU but we run a surplus with the rest of the world. For this dubious honour our gross contribution is currently over £55 Million per day, over £2 Million every hour, or OVER £36,000 PER MINUTE OF EVERY DAY.

We do not believe that many people in our country would believe this represents good value for money, particularly as monies received from the EU come from us in the first place. The only difference is that the EU, using our own money then tell us how and where to spend it.

 

With respect to trade, the EU’s Common Commercial Policy states that no member state can negotiate its own trade deals or represent itself at the World Trade Organisation (WTO). All member states must conduct all their trade negotiations exclusively through EU institutions which constitutes another massive loss of sovereignty.

The European Union has however never tried to hide the “ever closer union” it requires from all member states, unlike our own government who, since 1973 and up to the current day, have consistently lied to us and sought to conceal this fundamental and irrevocable commitment. The British establishment have known this and have consistently hidden the facts from the British public. None of them are to be trusted to tell the truth. This applies to the Conservatives, Labour, Liberal Democrats and Scottish Nationalists.

 

The government is trying to turn the referendum into a plebiscite, which appears to be a referendum but in fact has pretty much been already fixed. Do you remember that when the Irish voted the ‘wrong way’ they had to vote again until they got it right. This government and its allies are already talking about ‘renegotiation’, ‘grabbing back powers’ or ‘obtaining a new deal’ which they will claim they have won before asking the slanted question (not a straight forward in/out) for you to vote in favour of remaining in the EU. Likewise with Greece the EU desperately fears its departure as others would then follow, so our potential exit would be the start of the unravelling of the entire political project which is the EU. The EU and UK political classes are trying to collude in the same way as in 1974/5 by saying they have negotiated just enough to keep us under the thrall of the EU and within the ‘club’.

 

This referendum must be honest and equal in every way with equal publicity and monetary spend for each viewpoint. Anything else would be undemocratic in the extreme.

The central policy of the EU is that of ever closer union and integration. This must inevitably lead to the creation of a European state with total loss of sovereignty and the loss of control over every aspect of our daily lives. These officials have never been voted for and are totally outside of the law when it comes to redress. Financial accounting has not been signed off now for 20 years with fraud, corruption and wastage being rife within its institutions.

 

For yourself, your children, grandchildren and all future generations a NO vote is the only democratic way forward.

Edited August 31, 2015 by citizenB
Paragraph spaces added

[citizenB]

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

 

Well according to the article above by Vernon Coleman, Britain was taken into the EU illegally as there had been no referendum.

[citizenB]

Buckthorne, would you please advise if your post is from an external article, if so please provide a link

[king12345]

I agree with every point you made.

And bare in mind that I am a EU immigrant...

The EU has been a disaster for everyone but the elite of politicians milking it.

[caro]

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

 

Well according to the article above by Vernon Coleman, Britain was taken into the EU illegally as there had been no referendum.

 

 

 

That's a name I haven't heard for a very long time. He used to be a doctor in my home town and was always on the local TV news. Looks like he's diversified since then.

[f16]

buckthorn,

 

100 % the truth.

Looking forward to being classed as a "Nutter" or some sort of "radical"

 

The sooner the people of this Country wake up and smell the coffee the better !!!!!!!

[obiter dictum]

Seems people from that other anti EU Forum are being invited onto this forum by a certain long standing member with the usual tin foil hat mentality and FMOTL logic

 

Nice plagiarism from a Migration Watch article

 

If you are going to pass off someone work as your own at least have the decency to reference it

 

That includes links to the statements made, or as usual nothing but bovine excrement based on prejudice, not logic or fact

 

As usual with these kinds of ramblings, no source material is ever provided to back up the claims made to this negative rhetoric

[obiter dictum]

I will now dissect this piece of garbage piece by piece

 

So opinion polls say over 50 % want out of the EU?? Try 33%

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/05/05/eu-referendum-lead-12/

 

You say the UK elite do not want us to have a referendum??

 

Prove that statement with a link or is it just Opinion.

 

So then you go on as to Sovereignty??

 

Parliament will always be sovereign, not the EU. Dicey stated only parliament can make, enact and repeal laws. If Britain ever wished to come out or the EU it only has to repeal the European Communities Act 1972. That Act is the instrument in which EU law is passed into member state national law.

 

You then state the EU is made up of an army of 30,000 officials?

 

32,666 employees according to the 2013 fact sheet responsible for half a Billion people.. In the UK alone, there are 2 million UK employees working for Local Authorities covering 64 million people.

 

You then state our contribution are £55 million a day

 

What you fail to mention is that contributions are decided on a countries GDP. Not only that our contribution are actually £33 million a day with our rebate

 

You say the British Government has constantly hidden the true facts from the British People??

 

Prove it with a source material

 

Nice rewording of “Sovereignty” at the end which I have already explained to that BS

 

And those links i have asked to prove your statements are from objective sources. Not Migration watch or a YouTube Blogs etc from the Tin foil hat brigade

[silverfox1961]

Seems people from that other anti EU Forum are being invited onto this forum by a certain long standing member with the usual tin foil hat mentality and FMOTL logic

 

Nice plagiarism from a Migration Watch article

 

If you are going to pass off someone work as your own at least have the decency to reference it

 

That includes links to the statements made, or as usual nothing but bovine excrement based on prejudice, not logic or fact

 

As usual with these kinds of ramblings, no source material is ever provided to back up the claims made to this negative rhetoric

 

If you could look at how many posts this user has made, you will see that he/she cannot post links as yet.

 

I will now dissect this piece of garbage piece by piece

 

So opinion polls say over 50 % want out of the EU?? Try 33%

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/05/05/eu-referendum-lead-12/

 

You say the UK elite do not want us to have a referendum??

 

Prove that statement with a link or is it just Opinion.

 

So then you go on as to Sovereignty??

 

Parliament will always be sovereign, not the EU. Dicey stated only parliament can make, enact and repeal laws. If Britain ever wished to come out or the EU it only has to repeal the European Communities Act 1972. That Act is the instrument in which EU law is passed into member state national law.

 

You then state the EU is made up of an army of 30,000 officials?

 

32,666 employees according to the 2013 fact sheet responsible for half a Billion people.. In the UK alone, there are 2 million UK employees working for Local Authorities covering 64 million people.

 

You then state our contribution are £55 million a day

 

What you fail to mention is that contributions are decided on a countries GDP. Not only that our contribution are actually £33 million a day with our rebate

 

You say the British Government has constantly hidden the true facts from the British People??

 

Prove it with a source material

 

Nice rewording of “Sovereignty” at the end which I have already explained to that BS

 

And those links i have asked to prove your statements are from objective sources. Not Migration watch or a YouTube Blogs etc from the Tin foil hat brigade

 

I feel you are detracting from this thread. It may be your opinion that the piece is garbage but to openly decry it as so is wrong. Rather than start (yet another) spat, respect anothers opinions and be polite in your responses. I will leave it to you to decide whether to use the edit option.

[obiter dictum]

It is i object to overt propaganda with no facts, substance or links to support a persons opinions, and to try and pass those opinions off as fact

 

"Tell a lie often enough people will believe it to be true"

[silverfox1961]

It is i object to overt propaganda with no facts, substance or links to support a persons opinions, and to try and pass those opinions off as fact

 

"Tell a lie often enough people will believe it to be true"

 

I have no object to your challenging anyone but do so with respect, not by using antagonistic words.

[obiter dictum]

Slapped writs accepted

 

My comments are never personal as you know

[buckthorn]

I would just like to say I have never even heard of Vernon Colman, but now that you have provide me with

a link and I have read his article, I may go and purchase his book as I think he talks a lot of common sense.

 

Isn’t it strange one person says Colman and another accuses me of plagiarism from migration watch, I wish

you would make up your minds which it is to be.

 

My sources of information are :-

The News on BBC & ITV

News Papers, The Mail-Guardian-The Mirror-The Times-other journals.

Political broadcasts-News night-PMQ’s

The Internet-The European Parliament.

Bulletins from Brussels-UK Independence News

Plus any other source that I can get hold of, and if you like information given out by migration watch.

At the end of the day I make up my own mind, so no links.

 

CWK I take offence at this statement:-

 

If you are going to pass off someone work as your own at least have the decency to reference it

That includes links to the statements made, or as usual nothing but bovine excrement based on prejudice, not logic or fact

As usual with these kinds of ramblings, no source material is ever provided to back up the claims made to this negative rhetoric.

If you cannot discuss anything in a civilised manner without throwing insults then I think you must be a very sad person.

I would not think of criticizing you for what you believe in, all I have done is to provide members with facts, whether you wish to

believe it is your prerogative. You must make up your own mind.?

[obiter dictum]

How about links as objective sources??

 

And not links that are 10 years old

 

That is all i ask

 

Facts i can check to back up on your statements

 

Simples

[buckthorn]

In answer to questions .!

 

 

will now dissect this piece of garbage piece by piece(what you said)

 

So opinion polls say over 50 % want out of the EU?? Try 33% you information u.gov.

There will always be differing opinion polls, look at what happened during the general election most of the polls were wrong, and you gov

was no different to any of the others in their predictions.

You say the UK elite do not want us to have a referendum??

Try watching the news, and reading the press Labour and the Lib/Dems have stated this fact, it is also reported that even Osbourne tried to

get Cameron not to have a referendum

 

So then you go on as to Sovereignty??

Cabinet papers pre-1970 show the Heath government to have had full knowledge of the EEC being a long-term plan for a unitary European State

with its own currency; but the fact were suppressed by this and succeeding governments with the deliberate intention of keeping the nation in the dark.

“surrender of sovereignty”

On 14th December 1960 the Lord Chancellor, Lord Kilmuir, Britain’s senior legal officer, warned

Edward Heath of the implications of signing the Treaty of Rome:

“To satisfy the requirements of the treaty, Parliament could enact legislation which would give automatic force of law to any existing or future regulations

made by…the Community…So it is clear that the Council of Ministers could eventually make regulations which would be binding on us even against our wishes…

This was the first step on the road which leads…to a federal state…in my view the surrender of sovereignty involved are serious ones.

 

Edward Heath’s 1971 White Paper on joining the EEC deceived Parliament and people with its false statements that “there is no question of any erosion of

essential national sovereignty”, and that Britain’s sovereignty would somehow be “enlarged” by “sharing”.

 

Parliament will always be sovereign, not the EU. Dicey stated only parliament can make, enact and repeal laws. If Britain ever wished to come out or the EU

it only has to repeal the European Communities Act 1972. That Act is the instrument in which EU law is passed into member state national law.

It does not even have to repeal the Act in my opinion all we have to do is to stop giving them billions of pounds we would soon be out.

You then state the EU is made up of an army of 30,000 officials?

32,666 employees according to the 2013 fact sheet responsible for half a Billion people…I don’t think anybody can really know you could be right you could be way out,

I don’t think even Brussels’s knows how many work there it so no matter what it is always going to be a gesstimate In the UK alone, there are 2 million

UK employees working for Local Authorities covering 64 million people.

 

You then state our contribution are £55 million a day

What you fail to mention is that contributions are decided on a countries GDP. Not only that our contribution are actually £33 million a day with our rebate we wouldn’t

have to give them anything if we got out.

[obiter dictum]

I will comment no more

 

Head against brick wall comes to mind, i have said my piece

[andydd]

It is i object to overt propaganda with no facts, substance or links to support a persons opinions, and to try and pass those opinions off as fact

 

"Tell a lie often enough people will believe it to be true"

 

Well said.

 

I recently had an argument with a guy at my brothers chalet in France, he seemed to forget that its a two way street, he was moaning about EU 'forgeigners' working in Uk whilst staying in a British run chalet, served by a brit chef and no doubt most bike shops and bars he went into served by UK staff. How many thousands of Brits take advantage of EU law by working abroad ? Do they think this will be allowed to continue if we leave the EU ?