Xercise4Less / CRS issue with a twist - registration details never emailed

[citizen86]

Issue: Signed up to Xercise4Less on 31 Dec 2012, was informed would be emailed registration details.

 

I never received them, so I assumed I wasn't signed up. At this point in my life I was unaware of how banking worked and did not have a grip on my finances due to other circumstances. It also didn't help they were taking money out of my account under Harlands not Xercise4less.

 

I tried to sign up again at some point in early 2014 and was told I was already a paying member. They had noted my email address incorrectly and I have moved flats. I am not aware of receiving anything in the post to confirm if I had registered at my previous flat.

 

I do not have the details of when this occurred, I decided to deal with it via email. So I chased with this:

Hi there,

I am hoping to come down today for my first day. I am a paying member but my email address was incorrectly noted down when I initially signed up over a year ago. I haven't been before so I don''t have a pass or any registration details.

 

Do I need to bring anything with me today if I do come down?

 

I never discussed the cluster**** of not receiving any contact from the gym and having paid for over a year of a half to a gym without receiving my gym details. As I believed I would not get a refund of any sort and I did not have any proof of their mess up except of them not having my email address down incorrectly.

 

I only went went a 3/4 times under a temporary code, I decided the gym wasn't for me as I had moved again and location wise the gym didn't work.. So I cancelled the DD without informing the gym as I believed this was my right (I guess I was incorrectly informed). This was done on 1 Dec 2014.

 

I have received no contact from the gym or Harlands until a week back and CRS is declaring I owe them £200+ via letter and are now spamming me with phone calls, half automated, other half hang up as soon as I pick up. The caller ID is numerous, sometimes their office, sometimes private, unknown, or mobile numbers I obviously don't recognise. So far there has been zero contact from me to CRS except for picking up phone calls and being hung up on.

 

I have read a number of other posts here, so what is my play? Do I just do the standard letter and offer the 1 month payment and continue ignoring the phone calls or do I have a case of any kind of refund for never receiving the registration details for the period I was unaware of over a year + until I emailed them?

 

The good news is I have a much better grip on my finances.

[slick132]

Hi there and welcome to CAG

 

Please see my PM (private message) to you.

 

Some info please :-

 

1. Have you checked back and found that you WERE, in fact, paying for this gym m/ship since Dec'r 2012.

 

2. What date did you last allow a DD payment to be made.

 

When you tell us, we can suggest what you should write to Harlands.

 

Stay OFF the phone and don't discuss this other than in writing.

 

[citizen86]

Hi Slick,

I did check my Direct Debits earlier today, my initial payment came out on Dec2012, last payment Dec2014. I believe I attempted to sign up to a 12 month membership which was on offer at 9.99 a month.

 

I am unaware of signing any paperwork, unaware of receiving anything in the post as it was from years ago. Only reason I know I chased up Xercise4less is because I checked my email via a search. That is the only email I have ever sent them.

 

I remember getting confirmation they had my email address incorrect. I tried to rectify this over the phone as I remember being agitated that they had it wrong and I wasn't aware of my rights. I still aren't the only reason why I am even bringing it up as I considered the situation partially my fault. Now with CRS chasing me for what I consider to be unfair I am willing to fight them to a certain extent if I have legal grounds to do so.

 

I have also replied back to your pm. Thanks, I apologise for the numerous edits in quick succession!

[slick132]

Hi citizen86,

 

Sorry but you have no grounds to reclaim any fees paid during the m/ship.

 

You had a responsibility to monitor your bank a/c and, if you saw money going out unexpectedly to Harlands or the gym, you should have dealt with it at the time. That would have unearthed the wrong email and postal addresses and the fact that you had signed up to the gym m/ship.

 

You should give at least 30 days notice when cancelling so you probably DO owe one more payment.

 

Use a suitable letter from another thread to offer Harlands one final fee to settle the matter.

 

Let us know how they reply and keep it in writing only with Harlands.

 

[citizen86]

I kind of figured that was the case. Thanks for the info. I will send them a letter tonight. Do I send it to the main office?

 

A quick google brings up this address:

Harlands Services Ltd

2nd Floor, Rockwood House

9-17 Perrymount Road

Haywards Heath

West Sussex

RH16 3TW

 

Which template should I use? Can I use CAGmail? I just discovered this!

[slick132]

Hi citizen,

 

Write to Harlands at the address above. Get a free Certificate of Posting from the PO so you have proof of sending the letter.

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to my membership at Xercise4Less gym in [Town].

 

I cancelled my direct debit mandate in December 2014 and this was adequate notice of my intention to cancel.

 

However, I now accept that I should have made one final payment for the January payment and offer to pay this to you now. I will not pay you any administration or cancellation fees that you are asking for as these are penalties that are unlawful and unenforceable.

 

If you confirm in writing that you'll accept the amount of £9.99 in settlement of all that I owe, I will pay you promptly. If you fail to accept my offer within 14 days or you demand any other payment, I will pay you nothing and my offer will be withdrawn.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Adapt this to suit your own case and let us know how they reply.

 

[citizen86]

Just an update, I sent the letter on the 30th April via CAGmail. I have heard nothing from Harlands yet.

 

CRS however has mailed me again on the 8th May, it covers:

Legal action steps, starting with a final letter of demand and taking me to county court

or

This will be outsourced to another collection agency.It say I got 10 days before either happens and I should contact them.

 

It says I got 10 days before either happens. I have stayed off the phones and not picked up any phone calls from CRS.

 

 

I take it my best action is still wait for Harlands to reply? Thanks.

[slick132]

Reply to Harlands :-

 

I refer to CRS's [email/letter] of xxdate.

 

This matter is in clear dispute and Harlands/CRS must not pass the matter on for collection activity. This would be a clear breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines which I will report to Trading Standards.

 

I await Harlands reply to my email of xxdate which set out my offer to pay.

 

[citizen86]

Done, technically its been 14 days considering I mailed them on the 30th April. :\ I used CAGmail again.

 

CAGmail mentions my letter will be processed, is it possible the letter was never sent or is Harlands really slow at responding?

[slick132]

Hi Cit,

 

I'd say it's more likely that Harlands are slow to respond.

 

In any event, you need do nothing further for now.

 

[citizen86]

Update, got another letter today from CRS stating that if I do not respond within 10 days they will pass my account balance to Zinc Group Ltd.

 

I am getting the feeling either CAGmail is not working for me or the address I have been sending the letters to are incorrect. I doubt Harlands would pretend that my letter was never received from a quick look at other threads. What do you advise?

 

Thanks

[slick132]

Hi Cit,

 

I don't know if your email letters have arrived safely so resend the ones in posts #6 and #8 using post, and get a free Cert of Posting as advised in my post #6.

 

Send them to Harlands saying :-

 

I wrote to you by email on xx date and xxdate but have had no reply.

 

I now enclose hard copies of the letters for your attention and trust Harlands/CRS will stop making further demands, failing which I shall make a formal complaint to Trading Standards.

 

[citizen86]

I have attached CRS response, its dated 2nd July 2015.

 

They been ringing me and txting me even though I wrote to them. I eventually answered last week to tell them they need to write back to me. Then I said bye and hung up when they wanted to discuss "details".

 

Well that doesn't sound good at all reading the letter.

[slick132]

Hi Cit,

 

There's nothing unusual or worrying about this response. Just another lengthy reply, written to make you think they know what they're talking about.

 

The stuff about the AMSL judgement by Mr Justice Kitchin not applying, and the Dunlop case law about penalties is waffle in my opinion.

 

We know the OFT no longer exists but the Debt Collection Guidelines still apply. I'll check on this to make sure though.

 

I'd just write to Harlands as follows :-

 

I refer to recent phone calls and text messages from Harlands/CRS. I will only deal with this matter in writing and other forms of contact will be reported as harassment.

 

Referring to your letter of xxdate, I wholly disagree with your interpretations about the AMSL and the Dunlop cases. I note you reject my offer to pay £9.99 and that is now withdrawn.

 

As stated previously, complaints will now be made to The CMA and to Trading Standards.

 

Send by post.

 

Then see this post for the address for The CMA - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?442733-David-Lloyds-problem&p=4744811&viewfull=1#post4744811

 

Draft a brief complaint about Harlands/CRS :-

 

1. Making it difficult for you to cancel a gym membership, stating they cannot cancel until notice is given to the gym even though Harlands/CRS deal with the gym's admin.

 

2. Acting as if they are separate entities when they are not.

 

3. Harassing you with repeated phone calls and texts, despite the matter being in clear dispute and your request that contact be in writing only.

 

Send these to the CMA and to your local Trading Standards by post.

 

[citizen86]

Thnx Slick you are a legend.

I will send these letters and update on their response. I an moving flats in the next 2 weeks. I take it is my obligation to pass on my new address? I rather deal with this now then them lose contact with me and track me down a year later or something.

[slick132]

Yup, tell Harlands and the others your new address.

 

[citizen86]

I sent the letters to all 3 on Friday. Unfortunately suffered a delay due to looking for a new place to live.. I got a txt on Friday from Westcot debt collection asking me to give them a ring. They have also begun to ring me today.

 

What should be my response? Whilst I wait for Harlands, CMA, local trading standards to get back to me?

[slick132]

Hi Cit86,

 

I doubt the call from Westcot was connected with with the gym case.

 

Harlands normally put on their CRS hat to initially chase for payment, followed by the Zinc DCA and then Majorlaw solicitors.

 

Let us know when Harlands/CRS contact you.

 

[citizen86]

Westcot is Npower related, seems like they never got my final meter reading from my last flat. I used their automated system so its a bit bizzare. Calling them directly to resolve it.

 

I am currently on forever hold on their financial solutions department.

 

edit: sorted Npower issue, they may owe me money it turns out. They are withdrawing the westcot debt collection.

 

Will update when I hear from Harlands/CRS/Local Trading Stds/CMA

Edited July 20, 2015 by citizen86

[citizen86]

Update:

Looks like I sent the letter to the wrong CMA? (Competition & Market Authority). There letter says they do not respond to individual complaint/concerns. The letter however points me to contact the citizens advice consumer service.

The letter then goes on to mention the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) investigated contracts of fair terms here: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/health-and-fitness-clubs-unfair-contract-terms

The letter finishes on an apology of not being able to help any further.

 

My local standards authority also points me to the citizens advice consumer helpline as well as able to make a complaint via direct.gov.uk or adviceguide.co.uk

 

CRS have sent me a circular with the "we are disappointed your account is still in arrears..."

They are still ringing me. I am half tempted to pick up the phone and tell them that I am recording the conversation and see if that deters them from ringing me any further.

 

I guess my next step is to continue to ignore CRS, contact the citizen advice consumer service?

[slick132]

Hi Cit,

 

You'd see from other threads here that The CMA IS the correct body. They won't look into your individual case but your complaint will be logged and will hopefully lead to them taking action if we get enough folk to complain.

 

Citizens Advice will not help your case at all, from past experience. But you could make complaints via the 2 online addresses mentioned by Trading Standards.

 

If Harlands/CRS are still calling you at all, write to them reminding them of your previous letter/email confirming that you will only deal with this matter in writing. Accordingly, the continuing calls from Harlands/CRS are being logged for a formal complaint of harassment.

 

Otherwise, I'd ignore Harlands/CRS for now.

 

[citizen86]

Ok so I take I should be logging all the calls into a document somewhere from Harlands / CRS?

 

I will not bother responding to them for now. I will see wait another week or two to see if they send anything worthwhile.

[slick132]

Hi Cit86,

 

Just keep a note of the time and date of all calls or texts from Harlands/CRS.

 

[citizen86]

Here is a call log I can make that I can tie directly to CRS via take or caller ID in my history. They have called me from private numbers too but I can't really include them as I am not sure which ones are from them:

 

Aug

4/8/15 11:59 01444449165

 

July

30/7/15 11:45 07717 775257 txt thnx for writing, call us

21/7/15 13:33 01444449165

16/7/15 11:01 07718 775262 txt: urgent to speak to you today

14/7/15 10:10 01444449165

9/7/15 15:42 07718 775257 txt call C R S on .. we sent you a letter a week ago

01/7/15 9:48 01444449165

 

Jun

29/6/15 11:46 07718775264 txt: thnx for writing, call us

26/6/15 11:16 07872 049558 txt thnx for writing call us

18/6/15 13:20 01444449165

16/6/15 10:46 07718 775262 txt: thnx for writing call us

 

May

27/5/15 11:44 01444449165

22/5/15 14:31 07875 951649 txt: call urgently we need to speak to you

20/5/15 9:44 01444449165

18/5/15 14:31 07875 951649 txt: call urgently, we need to speak to you today

6/5/15 10:09 01444449165

 

Apr

30/4/15 9:40 07872 049544 txt: urgent we need to speak to you today

23/4/15 15:30 07891 499537 call C R S on .. we sent you a letter a week ago

 

I will include this when lodging a complaint with the 2 online links provided by trading standards.

Edited August 6, 2015 by citizen86

[slick132]

Continue to compile this until you need to complain.