Cabot/weightmans claimform - old Cap1 'debt'

[mrben22]

Hi

I am new to this forum , although did originally have some excellent help at the end of 2009 ,

from the original Penalty charges forum on other debt matters ,

so Im desperately hoping I can gain some help now in dealing with this final matter

that is still ongoing since then and has now escalated to a CC claim being issued .

 

Firstly I sincerely apologise for the length of this thread ,

Im just now desperate to know best action to take and so wanted to try and included all details that would be required.

 

Im in a position of not knowing whether there are any grounds for this CCA is unenforceable

or whether I need to try and quickly reach a settlement agreement with Cabot who have issued the CC claim as now the legal owners of this debt.

 

I have already registered on MCOL the “acknowledgement of service” on the 20/3/15 , having received the CC claim issue date of the 4/3/2010.

Im simply cannot deal with a CCJ being issued ,

as I have recently been suffering from health issues because of Stress & anxiety ,

consequently off long term sick from work and having to have medication for the stress and depression.

 

I have managed over the last 5 years to try and start to rebuild my life

and dealt with all other debts and cannot face another 6 years because of a CCJ !

 

Im afraid Id just reached the point & desperation with this Cap 1 account ,

as I managed to sort other debts out however it all become to much for me to deal with as I was getting nowhere

reaching a similar settlement figure with this as I had with other creditors.

 

Im afraid I suffered ill health most of last year and just wasnt in the mental health to deal with it any further , so it got ignored !

Very Stupid I know but as I say I simply was not well enough to focus on this any more at the time.

 

Any help and advise would be very much appreciated ,

I really dont want this matter to send me over the edge again . Thank You

 

Details I believe you will need are detailed below :

 

(any other details required please ask & i'll try to post up asap )

 

Name of the Claimant ? Cabot Financial UK Limited

Date of issue : 4th march 2015

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

 

1.The Defendant entered into a credit agreement described by the original creditor as CAPITAL ONE – CREDIT CARD

and having account number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (‘the Account’)

 

2.The Claimant, a UK limited company with company number 3757424,

is the assignee and legal owner of all rights previously enjoyed by the original creditor in respect of the Account.

 

3.The Defendant is indebted to the claimant in respect of the account in the sum of 16919.87

 

4.The claimant claims the said sum of 16919.87 , plus costs.

 

What is the value of the claim? 16919.87

 

credit card

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? 22/7/2002

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Cabot

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

Letter from Cap 1 on 4/5/11 advising they have sold the account to Cabot Financial UK Ltd on the 29/3/2011.

Cabot Financial UK Ltd will start reporting against your credit file within 30 days of you receiving this letter

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes on the 7/5/2010

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

Yes debt has been passed from Cap 1 ,

then FPC debt collection services (on behalf of cap 1 ) ,

Then Fredrickson International Ltd ,

then passed back to Cap 1 on 15/12/10 ,

then sold to Cabot on 29/03/2011.

 

Sent series of e mails to cabot through 2012 stating they had failed to provide the required details and a valid true copy of CCA to me.

 

Why did you cease payments?

Redundancy / marriage breakdown & costly divorce / returned to live with parents

& they offered some limited financial support to try and resolve & clear my financial crisis out !

Made offer to Cap 1 along with all other creditors on a pro rata basis as I was advised to .

Capital 1 was the only one that failed to accept.

 

What was the date of your last payment? Last payment on 3/1/2010 , then could no longer afford to so missed payments from Feb 2010 onwards

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

I disputed the amount as at the time I originally contacted Cap 1

and advised of severe financial difficulties the amount was £15613.65 less £748 charges so £14865.65

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan ?

 

Yes made a offer of £6237 to cap 1 , as full & final settlement on acc as represented circa 42% of the debt at the time .

the same % basis that I made to all other creditors that accepted the settlements on a pro rata basis. Offer made on 25.01.10 , details attached .

 

Later offer made to Fredricksons International Ltd as DCA on 22.11.2010 of £7500 as circa 46% of the debt.

 

Response from Fredrickson on 30/1/2010 indicating offer would be accepted but need me to call to discuss matter.

 

Letter from Cap 1 on 15/12/2010 advising matter no longer with DCA (Fredickson Int Ltd ) but been returned to Cap 1

[dx100uk]

who are the sols ...moon beever?

 

 

have you sent CABOT a CCA request since getting the claimform?

 

 

have you sent sols a CPR 31:14 since getting the claimform?

[BankFodder]

Hi

I am new to this forum , although did originally have some excellent help at the end of 2009 ,

from the original Penalty charges forum on other debt matters ,

 

We are the original penalty charges forum after the Bankchargeshell yahoo email group. The others simply copied us - including Penalty Charges

[mrben22]

Thanks for your reply

The solicitors are weighgmans llp , who are operating for their client as Marlin Financial Services Lld

(Marlin passed details & acting on behalf of legal owners cabot )

 

Not sent Cca to cabot since getting the claim form or indeed anything to weightmans as did not know best acfion to take now especially in view of the timescale

Hc

Got the application form that they sent back origjnally as the cca agreement from the original SAR request , as I blanked out and attached

[theoldrouge]

cca request to cabot ASAP, cpr31.14 toclaimants solicitors ASAP

 

both by Recorded Delivery

 

keep an eye on your defence due date, submit defence by this date regardless of what you do /do not receive in reply

[mrben22]

Thanks for your response & advice so quickly , and im really sorry if im being thick but what am I hoping to achieve my sending a CCA to cabot at the stage in view of the limited time I have (acknowledgement of service registered on mcol on 20/03/15 ) ??

 

The response I had back from cap 1 originally was just a copy of the short application form , with a cca bit on the bottom , which they claim is sufficent for them to provide & justify why in the response letter they sent me and I had attached.

 

Also whats the cpr31.14 to claimants solicitor hope to achieve as ive tried to read loads of posts on here about cpr31.14 and it seems to be that they provide all documents mentioned or referred to in the particulars of the claim , which as I included is just :

 

~cca agreement

~that the claimant (CABOT) is the assignee and legal owner of all rights previously enjoyed by the original creditor . Cap 1 sent me a letter on 4/5/2011 stating they had sold the debt to cabot on the 29/03/2011

 

Im am genuinely very grateful for any direction and guildance provided here , as god knows im getting in all this , but dont understand what im hoping to achieve or information asking them to provide that they have been requested previously and the response that cap 1 sent back originally .

[dx100uk]

matters not what has gone on in the past.!!

 

 

the claimant MUST hold a valid and enforceable CCA under the CCA to prosecute.

 

 

please get moving

no need to question simple advise

 

 

that if you read other threads here is in almost every one

 

 

dx

[mrben22]

OK thank you I'll get on and get the CCA and cpr31.14 done and sent off tomorrow

 

Ive got the template for the CCA but looking around the site and all the threads ,

 

 

I can see loads of references to cpr31.14 but is there a template letter somewhere

I can use please so I know what its got to contain ??

 

Sorry Ive tried looking around loads of threads and in the library etc but I cant find a cpr31.14 template letter / request ??

[dx100uk]

green top library tab

legal section

 

 

dx

[mrben22]

Thank you so much DX for pointing me in the right direction , really appreciate your reply in doing so.

 

I have what I need now to crack on and get sent tomorrow without further delay

Thanks again

[mrben22]

I sent the CPR 31.14 to weightmans (solicitors acting on behalf of Cabot ) as attached ,

and well as the CCA request to Cabot with the £1 PO (also attached), with personal details taken out .

 

 

Both sent special delivery

 

 

arrived with them on the 25.03.15

 

 

Reply I have had back from Weightmans that arrived with me yesterday (although dated the 26.03.15)

also attached below with personal details taken out.

***sorry their response is on page 2 of the PDF attachment ,

page 1 is blank as I cant get my technology to work properly , really sorry for inconvenience !!!!

 

*****The CPR 31.14 I sent to weightmans I included ....

.."following document(s) mentioned or implied in your particulars of claim " .

...as I had read somewhere on here about included the word implied if there particulars were not very detailed

as they dont appear to be in their claim (included these in the original thread)Response back from weightsmans I have found a little confusing :

 

1. Firstly their first paragraph mentions "documents you have requested at numbers two to six of the same "...

.... . I did not mention six points / documents in my request , I mentioned just five ??

 

2. The point they then go on to make about ,

"we hereby put you on notice that we will oppose the same , placing this correspondence before the court " ??

 

3. Despite that my request covers the point about them agreeing to an extension of up to 28 days to file my defence ,

their reply does say that they agree to this , but no indication of dates in line with this.

 

 

I spoke to the court today and they said that the usual required process is that if they have acknowledged

and agreed to an extension to file my defence ,

then they should state a proposed date this should be ,

that they are agreeable to and that they should advise the court of this in writing ?

 

 

sounds more logical to evidence & confirm they are in agreement .

 

So I really need some guidance now please on my next step , or how to proceed with my defence that has to be submitted by the 5th April

Edited April 1, 2015 by Andyorch
Paragraphs added

[AndyOrch]

Standard response...ignore their offer of CPR 15.5 extension...just submit your defence on time.

 

Andy

[mrben22]

Thanks for your reply , appreciatedAny help / thoughts on what needs to be / has to be included in my defence ?

 

 

Should they have responded correctly in their agreement to an extension for me to file my defence ,

i.e they should have stipulated a suggested date for defence to be filed in line with when they would be able to provide the information I have requested

, and they should have advised the court in writing of their acknowledgement and agreement ?

(like the court told me they should have when I spoke to the court today ? )

 

 

Are they at fault by not providing the information ive requested ?

 

 

I just want to ensure I include any details that strengthen my defence ,

seems like they , as you say just sent a standard response

(not even correctly, as referring to my points two to six , when I clearly only made five !! )

 

 

Seems like it hasnt given me the extended time to collate my defence as it should have potentially done

 

 

, because they are unable to provide what I have requested , but seemingly just fobbed it off !

[dx100uk]

defence filing deadline 4pm this Friday.

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

they don't have to comply with the cpr

 

they must to the CCA

 

have a look at a few threads here &

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?190-DCA-Legal-Successes

 

your are looking for the no paperwork/holding defence.

 

in lots of threads

 

have a go and we'll help you.

 

no need to say/add anything more than that

 

keep it brief

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Thanks for your reply , appreciatedAny help / thoughts on what needs to be / has to be included in my defence ?

 

 

Should they have responded correctly in their agreement to an extension for me to file my defence ,

i.e they should have stipulated a suggested date for defence to be filed in line with when they would be able to provide the information I have requested

, and they should have advised the court in writing of their acknowledgement and agreement ?

(like the court told me they should have when I spoke to the court today ? )

 

 

Are they at fault by not providing the information ive requested ?

 

 

I just want to ensure I include any details that strengthen my defence ,

seems like they , as you say just sent a standard response

(not even correctly, as referring to my points two to six , when I clearly only made five !! )

 

 

Seems like it hasnt given me the extended time to collate my defence as it should have potentially done

 

 

, because they are unable to provide what I have requested , but seemingly just fobbed it off !

 

Once a claimant offers extension by way of CPR 15.5 (an extra 28 days) its your choice to accept and if so inform MCOL(with a copy of the claimants confirmation) that you will be be submitting by this date.

 

By agreeing extension all you are doing is providing the claimant further time to recover/create the paperwork and prolonging the process for yourself...so ignore.

 

Your defence will not be based on anything they wont disclose pre defence...and they wont disclose because they dont wish to assist with your defence along with the fact that they have nothing at this stage to disclose.

 

Your defence will be a simple holding/verifying proof defence...which is available through out this forum and in the Legal Successes forum.

 

Please take time to read others threads who have submitted the same and how their threads concluded.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[mrben22]

Thanks for your help and advise so far I really appreciate it as getting lost in this now.

 

I have spent hours (days ) reading threads in here that are very helpful.

 

Will spend more time today to try and put together best & most appropriate defence together and post up this evening for thoughts on it if possible please.

 

Will go down the route of no paperwork / holding defence , verifying proof etc as suggested.

 

All they have ever produced in the past was the front page of an old apllication form ,

with my signature on from 2002 when it was a balance transfer from another Credit card ,

and updated t&c on seperate page much more recent and after 2006 !

 

Not sure if they have enough on this to prove enforceable CCA

 

I have done my very best to try and learn from previous threads on this site ,

so that I can try to put together a suitable holding / verifying proof defence as previously suggested .

 

 

I need to get this filed via MCOL tomorrow so am hopefully that someone can look over and advise or correct where need be for me please.

 

 

I have looked through a great many threads to use as the basis for this defence ,

 

 

however if Im honest im unsure as to a couple of points1.

 

 

point 1 refers to CPR r 16.5 (3) ,

I dont actually what this refers to or is required and relevant in my case ??2.

Do I need to include any point at this stage , that I have also requested a CCA to cabot themselves on the 24.03.15 as well as the cpr31.14 ??

or again is that not relevant for the defence

[dx100uk]

####Defence####

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement. The Claimant/Solicitor has refused to disclose any agreement or statements on which its claim relies upon.

 

3.Paragraph 2 is denied I am unaware of any legal assignment the claimant refers to within its particulars. I have no knowledge of who the claimant is nor ever been approached since the alleged assignment of over 3 years ago up until receipt if this claim.

 

On receipt of this claim I requested information pertaining to this claim from Shoosmiths LLP Solicitors and Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd. by way of a CPR 31.14 and a section 78 request. To date, no response has been received from Shoosmiths LLP. Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd. have replied to the section 78 request, however they do not accept that they are the creditor, and have yet to furnish me with the requested information. They have stated that they will “assist in obtaining that which has been requested” and have also stated that “we confirm that all collection activity will be suspended pending provision of the documents”

 

Therefore with the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

 

(b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for;

 

© show how the agreement was legally terminated to allow the claimant relief.

 

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5, it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act

and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

6. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

Okay check the above...I have used the defence you posted and tweaked it very slightly.Copy and paste into MCOL and print your receipt as proof of submission

 

 

adapt the above to YOUR POC

[mrben22]

DX thank you so much for your prompt response ,

and Im really sorry if I am being thick or confusing matters here.

 

 

your point 3. about the alleged assigment of over 3 years ago ,

until receipt of this claim. I mentioned this as it was a letter I received from the original credit card Capital 1 ,

but I have not had any dealing with cabot / weightmans solicitors who are dealing now.

 

 

(see my post 6 , may be me confusing matters here , so Im really sorry if so )

 

 

Surely I dont want to admit / acknowledge that I have had notice from Cap 1 some 3 years ago that the debt was sold to cabot do I ????

 

 

Your paragragh after point 3. on reciept of this claim ..

....Shooesmiths (I will obviously change to the solicitors in my case i.e weightmans ) but the Arrow Global Guernsey Limited ??

 

 

this is to be replaced by Cabot Financial ??

 

 

If so its weightmans that have replied to my cpr31.14 request but I have heard nothing todate back from Cabot yet reference the CCA request I sent.

 

 

The replied back from weightmans to the cpr31.14 is the one I attached earlier on the page 2 of the PDF

with the blank first page

 

 

Im really sorry im sure its my technology problems that are not helping to confusion I am obviously causing

[dx100uk]

that was a typical credit card defence that you NEED TO ADAPT TO YOUR POC. and your situation.

[dx100uk]

forget the fact that weightmans replied to the CRP

[dx100uk]

POC

 

 

1.The Defendant entered into a credit agreement described by the original creditor as CAPITAL ONE – CREDIT CARD

and having account number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (‘the Account’)

 

2.The Claimant, a UK limited company with company number 3757424,

is the assignee and legal owner of all rights previously enjoyed by the original creditor in respect of the Account.

 

3.The Defendant is indebted to the claimant in respect of the account in the sum of 16919.87

 

4.The claimant claims the said sum of 16919.87 , plus costs.

 

 

better to copy and paste your defence here in a msg box so we can edit it for you.

 

 

you need to answer paragraph 3 & 4 yet.

 

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.

The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had dealings with Capital One but I do not recognise this account.

[mrben22]

POC

 

1.The Defendant entered into a credit agreement described by the original creditor as CAPITAL ONE – CREDIT CARD

and having account number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (‘the Account’)

 

2.The Claimant, a UK limited company with company number 3757424,

is the assignee and legal owner of all rights previously enjoyed by the original creditor in respect of the Account.

 

3.The Defendant is indebted to the claimant in respect of the account in the sum of 16919.87

 

4.The claimant claims the said sum of 16919.87 , plus costs.

 

 

 

 

####Proposed Defence####

 

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.

The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

 

1. Save insofar as it is accepted that a contractual relationship did once exist between the Claimant and the original creditor and save insofar as this Defence is filed without prejudice to the Defendant’s position.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is denied I am unaware of any legal assignment the claimant refers to within its particulars and I have no knowledge of who the claimant is nor have I been provided with any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

3. Paragraphs 3 & 4 are denied with regards to any amount due under any agreement.

The Claimant/Solicitor has refused to disclose any agreement or statements on which its claim relies upon.

 

On receipt of this claim

I requested information pertaining to this claim from the Claimants Solicitors by way of a CPR 31:14 request

sent via XX delivery method on XX date.

 

Further to the above I sent Cabot Financial UK limited a section 78 request. sent via XX delivery method on XX date.

 

To date, neither Weightmans LLP nor Cabot Financial UK Limited are yet to furnish me with the requested information .

 

Therefore with the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to

 

a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement;

b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for;

c) show how the agreement was legally terminated to allow the claimant relief.

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.6.

 

By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Andyorch
Amended

[dx100uk]

ok post 23 modified

 

 

please DO NOT FILE THIS

until andyorch checks it over.

 

 

I will be around by 4pm filing time to check

 

 

regards

 

 

dx

[mrben22]

OK

 

DX thank you so very much for all your assistance helping getting this defence ready to file today , I cant thank you enough

 

I will await until later today when hopefully Andyorch will have been able to cast his eye over it and give me the green light to go ahead and file on MCOL today before 4pm